NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

The USO is for the incumbent (BT) And means that that BT has an obligation to supply no less than 10 Mbit/s line speed, if ordered. They can sell you smaller packages, but can't tell you that you can't have 10 Mbit/s, if you pay the price.

In Ireland the USO never included internet or broadband. Dialup-Dempsey: Dialup is fast enough for anyone !!

Also, even if broadband was included in the USO here, OpenEir has been given no minimum time for delivery. Only that they have to deliver a phoneline. Some people wait 5+ years for said phoneline.

Ergo .. don't even think about that.

/M

This thread started on 24-11-2014, 13:38
That tells it all

fergus1001

Persiancowboy wrote:

Totally disagree. How is this going to be measured? who is going to measure it? If you have a wireless connection you are subject to contention....is it 10mbps at all times or at specific periods during the day? How is it being funded?

The USO applies to BT landline not mobile operators

Persiancowboy

fergus1001 wrote: »

UK government have updated their USO(universal service obligation) to 10mbps minimum connection speed meaning someone in the bog arse of Cornwall has a legal right to this speed, this is how our broadband problem should be solved, but alas our politicians are spineless

Totally disagree. How is this going to be measured? who is going to measure it? If you have a wireless connection you are subject to contention....is it 10mbps at all times or at specific periods during the day? How is it being funded?

Is Ofcom now going to oblige all UK telcos to pay into a USO fund....and if so what about the Googles and Facebooks of this world...should they also contribute?

Whatever about the understandable frustrations at the snail's pace of NBP roll-out, we are in a much better long-term situation here with a fibre solution to our BB needs than the UK who are almost totally reliant on BT squeezing every last inch out of its copper network.

That USO announcement will amount to nothing and is doomed to failure.

fergus1001

UK government have updated their USO(universal service obligation) to 10mbps minimum connection speed meaning someone in the bog arse of Cornwall has a legal right to this speed, this is how our broadband problem should be solved, but alas our politicians are spineless

On the mobile and broadband forum this year, there was talk by the minister (for comms) and others about getting excemption for planning to put communications in (broadband, telephone etc) in a lot of areas, equal to as with water in some cases.

Also to lower the council fee's for said and fees for council owned infrastructure (mast space).

Having said that ... there was talk !! .. that doesn't mean any action.

/M

turbbo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It sounds like it has the potential to go radically wrong

So rather than fix the planning process - just get rid of it. Yup a very Irish solution. No chance of that going wrong at all.

KOR101 wrote: »

Anyone come across the specifics on this?

Minister for Housing Eoghan Murphy will announce proposals on Thursday to exempt a number of developments from planning permissions to help tackle the housing crisis.

The changes to be introduced as part of the Planning Act will also exempt developments by Irish Water on new water infrastructure and maintenance of existing systems. Certain works to be undertaken as part of the national broadband plan, as well as works on extending mobile phone coverage, will not need planning permission either.

“They will assist in the accelerated roll-out of broadband and mobile services, in urban and particularly in rural areas, as envisaged by the Action Plan for Rural Development; .......

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/vacant-shops-to-be-turned-into-homes-without-planning-permission-1.3326573

It sounds like it has the potential to go radically wrong

KOR101

Anyone come across the specifics on this?

Minister for Housing Eoghan Murphy will announce proposals on Thursday to exempt a number of developments from planning permissions to help tackle the housing crisis.

The changes to be introduced as part of the Planning Act will also exempt developments by Irish Water on new water infrastructure and maintenance of existing systems. Certain works to be undertaken as part of the national broadband plan, as well as works on extending mobile phone coverage, will not need planning permission either.

“They will assist in the accelerated roll-out of broadband and mobile services, in urban and particularly in rural areas, as envisaged by the Action Plan for Rural Development; .......

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/vacant-shops-to-be-turned-into-homes-without-planning-permission-1.3326573

Marlow wrote: »

Of course. But look at how the other way works: The government Metropolitan Networks (MAN) are being owned by the people of Ireland. e-Net manages them for the Government.

Yet, we're still paying prices, that are 10-fold of and more, what the going rate is in Dublin or continental Europe is, to get access to this infrastructure.

By irish terms, I don't think it'll make any difference, unless Comreg starts doing their job.

/M

That does remain a possibility ...... improbable as it seems.

IF the NBP infrastructure was in public ownership, along with the MANs then it is highly likely there would be a specific department set up to manage the whole thing, rather than no one really being responsible presently.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The real problem - and it is likely to become more of a problem as time progresses - is that the NBP infrastructure will be in private hands instead of being owned by the people of Ireland.

Of course. But look at how the other way works: The government Metropolitan Networks (MAN) are being owned by the people of Ireland. e-Net manages them for the Government.

Yet, we're still paying prices, that are 10-fold of and more, what the going rate is in Dublin or continental Europe is, to get access to this infrastructure.

By irish terms, I don't think it'll make any difference, unless Comreg starts doing their job.

/M

Marlow wrote: »

OpenEIR is such free to everyone to use.

The problem is that their cost is way above what access in other countries cost, their politics and onboarding procedure are a nighmare .. (1 year from initial negotiations to your first connection is not uncommon) and their tools for interacting and ordering with them are near to useless (UG).

The issue is not getting another manager. The issue is to get Comreg to do what they're supposed to do: regulate and enforce regulation.

Right now, there is for example a regulation price for dark fiber from OpenEIR. But OpenEIR has not been required to make that product available across the board.

/M

The real problem - and it is likely to become more of a problem as time progresses - is that the NBP infrastructure will be in private hands instead of being owned by the people of Ireland.

OpenEIR is such free to everyone to use.

The problem is that their cost is way above what access in other countries cost, their politics and onboarding procedure are a nighmare .. (1 year from initial negotiations to your first connection is not uncommon) and their tools for interacting and ordering with them are near to useless (UG).

The issue is not getting another manager. The issue is to get Comreg to do what they're supposed to do: regulate and enforce regulation.

Right now, there is for example a regulation price for dark fiber from OpenEIR. But OpenEIR has not been required to make that product available across the board.

/M

BarryM

Today's news that Xavier Niel is making a move on eir could and should make a difference. Neil, who started life, using a Sinclair ZX81 and the Minitel, to write the first (soft) porno app for it. He is a tech entrepreneur of a different type, who picked up a fledgling ISP called Free, funded by ads, and has turned it into a major player in France.
However, he was aided by the French regulation which requires the former monopoly, France Telecom, to generate a network which is 'open' in the true sense, they are obliged to create, maintain and update the network and offer access to everyone who needs service. Free is one of those.
Now, if eir was obliged to do that, what would Irelands's BB service be like? Not what is in now where eir is dragged kicking and screaming into supplying any kind of service to other operators and manages to upstage the national plan to upgrade access by 'offering' to upgrade, maybe, 300k of those whom they consider worth upgrading.
Hurry up M.Neil!!

With or without NBP eir had to act and do something to keep it's share of the market, people who has poor Internet speed with eir are leaving regardless of the NBP, threat of 4G or "in the future even 5G" threat of companies like Imagine and other wireless broadband providers put eir in front of two choices; come up with faster speeds or left behind.
I disconnected my copper wire before even I knew there is something called NBP

Schorpio wrote: »

I dunno - I take your point, but when these schemes come around for review, there will be less pressure on to get on with things if the connected numbers already 'look' good. If those numbers have been artificially inflated, then it ultimately means that people will be waiting even longer to get connected via genuine NBP-driven mechanisms.

People connected because of the 'threat' of the NBP does not equal people connected by the NBP. If the NBP being just around the corner was all it took to get companies like Eir to invest and get more infrastructure out there, then it would seem to me like they should have been doing it in the first place.

Of course they 'should' (from a consumer POV) ...... but they had no need to do so (commercially) as they (eir) had an effective monopoly with their copper, which came under threat with the NBP, thus triggering investment to help maintain their dominant position.

If Siro was born without the NBP it would probably have had the same effect ...... but of course that did not exist without the NBP either.

Eventually (years down the road) some commercial roll out would have been undertaken ..... only in the commercially very profitable areas.

I would have no problem with a statement like .....
'the NBP is responsible for X number of premises being connected to FTTH at this time'.
I believe it to be true.

"Ireland's National Broadband Plan will deliver fibre to the home (FTTH) services to 200,000 homes and businesses by the end of 2018"

The above quote could be (political speak) interpreted the same.
It is deliberately designed to mis-inform, IMO, but is that not what we expect? :rolleyes:

BarryM

Maybe I am not seeing the whole piece, there is some message about the ads.... but I suspect it a series of misquotes, starting with Mulligan's title.
Probably also Mulligan fudged the NBP with eir's 300k, and/or the writer is unfamiliar with the background.
Either way, there is, afaics, no real money in the '18 budget, so amber stays amber, maybe even goes to red?

Schorpio

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is but a small step to claim the NBP is responsible for those roll-outs and connections.

IMO, this is not worth arguing about.
All that matters is that connections become available to those who want them, as soon as possible, by whatever provider is working in the area - NBP subsidised or a commercial roll out triggered by the threat of the NBP tender awards.

I dunno - I take your point, but when these schemes come around for review, there will be less pressure on to get on with things if the connected numbers already 'look' good. If those numbers have been artificially inflated, then it ultimately means that people will be waiting even longer to get connected via genuine NBP-driven mechanisms.

People connected because of the 'threat' of the NBP does not equal people connected by the NBP. If the NBP being just around the corner was all it took to get companies like Eir to invest and get more infrastructure out there, then it would seem to me like they should have been doing it in the first place.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It might be stretching things a little from the user perspective, but it is not surprising to read this claim.

I suspect it is being claimed on the basis that

1. eir would not have had any interest in doing their 300k roll-out without the NBP 'threat' to their monopoly, so the NBP is directly responsible.

It is difficult to deny that.

2. Siro would likely never exist but for the NBP ...... so their roll out is also due to the NBP.

Again difficult to argue the contrary.

It is but a small step to claim the NBP is responsible for those roll-outs and connections.

IMO, this is not worth arguing about.
All that matters is that connections become available to those who want them, as soon as possible, by whatever provider is working in the area - NBP subsidised or a commercial roll out triggered by the threat of the NBP tender awards.

May be you are right but the article says
"Ireland's National Broadband Plan will deliver fibre to the home (FTTH) services to 200,000 homes and businesses by the end of 2018"
That is a naked lie

It might be stretching things a little from the user perspective, but it is not surprising to read this claim.

I suspect it is being claimed on the basis that

1. eir would not have had any interest in doing their 300k roll-out without the NBP 'threat' to their monopoly, so the NBP is directly responsible.

It is difficult to deny that.

2. Siro would likely never exist but for the NBP ...... so their roll out is also due to the NBP.

Again difficult to argue the contrary.

It is but a small step to claim the NBP is responsible for those roll-outs and connections.

IMO, this is not worth arguing about.
All that matters is that connections become available to those who want them, as soon as possible, by whatever provider is working in the area - NBP subsidised or a commercial roll out triggered by the threat of the NBP tender awards.

niallb

Add a comment to the article itself.
People reading it are unlikely to be checking boards for clarification!

Schorpio

Ultimanemo wrote: »

I think what they are trying to do is: We achieved at least 30% of NBP objectives, so we can take a break for a few years now.

Right, as somebody who is living in an amber area - who do i complain to about this?

As others have said, Mulligan should knows better than this. If it is a misquote, then fine - but it should be acknowledged as such.

This isn't on. The NBP cannot claim wins it hasn't earned. It needs to get on with the job of actually creating success stories. People need to be held to account. This false inflation of figures is no better than what the Gardai were doing.

rodge123 wrote: »

My God....either Fergal Mulligan has caught the "Commerical development is part of NBP" virus Mr Naughten has or that site has mis-quoted him.
Either way, tut tut tut!

I think what they are trying to do is: We achieved at least 30% of NBP objectives, so we can take a break for a few years now.

9726_9726

KOR101 wrote: »

In case you missed it, the NBP is already underway .........

Ireland's National Broadband Plan will deliver fibre to the home (FTTH) services to 200,000 homes and businesses by the end of 2018, according to the programme's director, Fergal Mulligan.

Mulligan said that the project had so far provided FTTH services to 100,000 homes and businesses across Ireland, with that figure set to double by the end of 2018.

https://www.totaltele.com/498805/Ireland-to-deliver-FTTH-to-200000-premises-by-2018

What the what the what the what the???

Great, after all the delays, the NBP has *provided services* to 100,000 homes and businesses! Without putting a shovel in the ground!

Surely this is a misquote. The NBP has connected nobody. Zero. Eir have passed 100,000 commercially.

Mulligan has been running the NBP for years. He knows this.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

A lot of us do not consider the Siro roll-out to be Rural FTTH ...... they are only servicing built up areas.

True

Which party is Mr. Naughten, so we don't vote for them again

Ultimanemo wrote: »

That is a blatant Lie, NBP has absolutely nothing to do with Rural FTTH which is now underway by Siro and eir.
It is like claiming the HSE is doing great because more Vhi patients are treated in private hospitals

A lot of us do not consider the Siro roll-out to be Rural FTTH ...... they are only servicing built up areas.

ED E

Load of crap, he's worse than Naughten for hot air with that.