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Cycle Lanes in Phoenix Park

papu

Bought a new bike, went for a spin up and down chesterfield avenue today on the "Bike Lane". Pedestrians every 100m, whole families, buggies, kids. Asking them to move to the pedestrian lane I was told to "Get over myself" "f** off" etc. etc. one lady even told me to use the "bike lane!:rolleyes:".

I would have thought the signs on the bike path are fairly self explanatory, do they need to put up more explicit signage? How do other people get on? Is this what it's like every weekend??:(

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AlanG

As a daily commuting user of the cycle lane and weekly family user of the footpath I would be against this. Our family's recreational enjoyment of the park would be greatly reduced by having the walking path close to the road - it would mean having to restrict the freedom of our kids to be more than a few feet from a parent as traffic would be so close. On the inner path they can scoot or run relatively freely and enjoy the facility.

I use a bell when cycling and don't have much problem with walkers on the cycle path. Almost all step off once I ring the bell in advance. Most cyclists I see don't seem to have a bell so encounter problems as they cannot alert people so easily.
There is clearly a problem caused by the fence and / or muddy ground between the roadside parking and the footpath which could be addressed by installing a number of gaps and paths through. I also know a lot of older people avoid the footpath during the winter as it floods and you can get stuck having to double back.

BowSideChamp

The OPW is encouraging walkers onto the cycle lane by their lack of care of the walking path - no lighting, no drainage, uneven surface.

Exactly the same is happening with the cycle lanes at the Parkgate St entrance. Surface so bad, no cyclists use it.

beauf

BowSideChamp wrote: »

...Exactly the same is happening with the cycle lanes at the Parkgate St entrance. Surface so bad, no cyclists use it.

Does it actually have a surface. I thought it was stripped at one point and never put back.

Seth Brundle

Slightly off topic but I have two memorable experiences within the park that made me not want to cycle in the park...

The first was when I was marshaling during the Phoenix park Motor races maybe 20 or so years ago. Both pedestrians and joggers would climb over the barrier and cross the track because it was a public park and they walk/jog there every day and I can fupp off if I think I or any other knob in orange overalls will stop them.

The second was this picture I took in the park during the 2014 Phoenix Park Bikeweek Bike Festival...

Annie get your Run

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Exactly the same is happening with the cycle lanes at the Parkgate St entrance. Surface so bad, no cyclists use it.

No but motorbikes do :eek:. I got caught there a few weeks ago, I was on the road because as you say the cycle lane is in ribbons. I was nearing the gate so about to merge with ordinary traffic lane when a motorbike came barrelling down the cycle path on my left!!! Had a chat with him at the lights and he basically said it was my problem because I wasn't in the lane!!! Similar happened with a car there one morning too...

I've emailed the OPW on more than one occasion about the cycle paths there, about closing the lanes when events are on and about that damn ice cream van that's parked in the lane all summer long :rolleyes:. They have little or no interest in resolving issues.

magicbastarder

Annie get your Run wrote: »

They have little or no interest in resolving issues.

i suspect 'staff and/or budget' could be swapped in for 'interest' there.

would be curious about what operating budget the PP gets.

ThisRegard

It's a bad idea to switch them for reasons I'm sure outlined already in this thread I'm sure.

ED E

Weepsie wrote: »

From the article "Many pedestrians end up walking in the lane by mistake".

I don't think this is the case for the majority. It's fairly clearly marked that it's a cycle lane and some people still do it.

Other parts of the city are the same, the signage is very clear but they just couldnt give a rats.

BowSideChamp

The generator lights currently in the Park for the Zoo's Wild Nights is an interesting experiment. It allows for walkers/runners to use the Park after dark. The lights though are pointed on the bike lane directing walkers onto it ðŸ€”

cython

BowSideChamp wrote: »

The generator lights currently in the Park for the Zoo's Wild Nights is an interesting experiment. It allows for walkers/runners to use the Park after dark. The lights though are pointed on the bike lane directing walkers onto it &#55356;&#56340;

Cycling home the other evening, and the amount of parents with their heads stuck rummaging in their cars while their children wandered lemming-like around the cycle path was disgraceful. That being said, IMHO the likelihood of that stuff would be significantly reduced were the railings (where they exist) simply on the road side of the paths rather than where they currently are, as it would mean going out of your way to be a nuisance on the cycle path.

ThisRegard

How do you get a loaded buggy and kids over the railings to get to the footpath?

Pinch Flat

The lights thing on in the zoo is drawing big enough crowds. Last Friday was so bad with peds in the bike lane that I used the road. Bell on my bike wasn't doing much good and loose children running about on a cycle lane is an accident waiting to happen.

I hate to say this but maybe it’s time for more off street parking - the parking is being facilitated in what’s a hard shoulder - realise the park is subject to separate by laws etc but maybe it’s time to look at making one of the car parks bigger. How many cars would have to be accommodated? It’s bumper to bumper on a good day stretching a good few hundred yards from the zoo to the roundabout at the Aras though.

Another alternative would be paths linking the bike lane to the inner path, or else just biting to bullet and swapping the paths over. The inner one could be widened and resurfaced but it’s all money.

RacoonQueen

Or, people could just cycle on the road. Pretty sure I already said in this thread that they should have moved the parking into where the cycle lane is and put the cycle lane where the parking now is when they were resurfacing Chesterfield Ave.
Speed limit in the park should be reduced and enforced also. People go crazy speeds up Chesterfield.

cython

ThisRegard wrote: »

How do you get a loaded buggy and kids over the railings to get to the footpath?

I don't know but given that it's already a problem with where the footpath is located (far side of the railing - where it exists- from the cycle path and the road), perhaps those people who may currently do it are the ones to ask.

magicbastarder

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Or, people could just cycle on the road. Pretty sure I already said in this thread that they should have moved the parking into where the cycle lane is and put the cycle lane where the parking now is when they were resurfacing Chesterfield Ave.

i largely agree with this - they missed a trick when they widened the avenue.
someone mentioned above about kids running around on the cycle path, with oblivious parents. this is the way it *should* be; it's a public park, it should be for public recreation. moving the cycle lane further in only exacerbates the situation, where people out for a relaxing stroll, what have you, and commuting cyclists have to worry about crossing paths. i guess most people who go for a recreational cycle in the park would choose different cycle paths anyway?

it's a similar reason to why i would oppose moving the cycle path through the park in fairview.

Annie get your Run

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Or, people could just cycle on the road. .

:eek::eek: Wash your mouth out, a bike, on the ROAD!

. Joking aside, it's just not worth the hassle. I actually love the part of my commute that brings me through the park, nice quiet (mainly) cycle lanes with no threat to life and limb from impatient motorists. The part where most of the hassle is is around the Zoo so there needs to be a solution for that. Bigger zoo car park? It's bonkers that someone parks their car and then can't actually access the footpath because of the railings. Does anyone know why those railings are there? They only go so far and then stop dead...

ThisRegard

cython wrote: »

I don't know but given that it's already a problem with where the footpath is located (far side of the railing - where it exists- from the cycle path and the road), perhaps those people who may currently do it are the ones to ask.

It's not really a problem though, the cycle lane is for sauntering along and kids around it, which you can see well in advance, are expected and shouldn't be such a problem for someone to necessitate the redesign and reconstruction of the paths.

The only time I cycle at pace on the lanes is first thing in the morning when the park is empty, otherwise a grand bit of road to use is right alongside.

Pinch Flat

Yeah I've tried the road in the park, too much hassle at busy times when the hard shoulder parking is full. You've got to take primary / center lane when it's busy with parked cars to avoid being doored, which invariably means you'll have some tool driving up your a$$, then pulling a crazy overtake at the earliest opportunity. Usually into oncoming traffic.

magicbastarder

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not really a problem though, the cycle lane is for sauntering along and kids around it, which you can see well in advance

there was a cyclist who died from injuries received in a collision with a pedestrian on the cycle path a year or two ago.

i wonder who provides insurance to the OPW? i would guess their insurance went up significantly as a result. seems to be a common problem.

ThisRegard

magicbastarder wrote: »

there was a cyclist who died from injuries received in a collision with a pedestrian on the cycle path a year or two ago.

Same way as we rail against those saying "all cyclists are...." because of the actions of individuals, not all pedestrians on the footpath are going to kill a cyclist.

Everyone at this stages knows to expect a pedestrian of some sort on it so it's by and large just an inconvenience.

It'll never get to the stage where there won't be any on it, no matter where it's moved to.

beauf

Annie get your Run wrote: »

... It's bonkers that someone parks their car and then can't actually access the footpath because of the railings. Does anyone know why those railings are there? They only go so far and then stop dead...

Historical. You probably don't remember when there was cattle in the park and cattle grids at every games. There are obviously deer there now.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

...seems to be a common problem.

I dunno theres a lot of us saying its not that big an issue unless theres an event on. Like a sunny day peak summer.

AlanG

magicbastarder wrote: »

there was a cyclist who died from injuries received in a collision with a pedestrian on the cycle path a year or two ago.

i wonder who provides insurance to the OPW? i would guess their insurance went up significantly as a result. seems to be a common problem.

Pretty sure the OPW don't need insurance - like Garda cars the state is the insurance. This tragic incident would not have significantly increased the amount of claims against them as they already manage practically all government property.

If the paths need to be upgraded then the Department of Public Expenditure will need to provide the funding to minister Kevin Moran.

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

I dunno theres a lot of us saying its not that big an issue unless theres an event on. Like a sunny day peak summer.

my comment was in relation to insurance being hike for people having to take out PLI.

Doctor Bob

AlanG wrote: »

If the paths need to be upgraded then the Department of Public Expenditure will need to provide the funding to minister Kevin Moran.

OPW got an allocation from the NTA two (?) years ago to come up with proposals for the cycle infrastructure on Chesterfield Avenue. I don't think anything came of it, though. They are eligible for NTA funding for sustainable transport projects, AFAIK.

RacoonQueen

Annie get your Run wrote: »

:eek::eek: Wash your mouth out, a bike, on the ROAD! . Joking aside, it's just not worth the hassle.

A while since I've cycled in there but I always stick to the road. Most of the way up Chesterfield you can stay in the parking spots anyway as they're empty (if it's early enough) and by the time I've to join the road, the traffic is moving slower than me anyway.

the world wonders

Father died after his bike collided with pedestrian walking on cycle lane, inquest hears

Collisions between cyclists and pedestrians in the Phoenix Park are common, Detective Inspector Peter Hayde told the court. The cycle lane is the outer lane running next to the road while the pedestrian lane is a separate path running inside and parallel.

Gardaí recommended that the cycle and pedestrian paths be swapped in the interest of public safety.

“There have been other accidents. At the zoo for example, families place their children in immediate danger by stopping their cars and alighting onto the cycle path,” Detective Inspector Hayde said.

Returning a verdict of accidental death, the jury recommended that the Office of Public Works and the Road Safety Authority be made aware of the issues raised.

schemingbohemia

Obviously only relying on the reports of the inquest but a couple of things jump out at me. Neither the Times or Independent identified the person who collided with Mr. Tully which I found strange.
Also, there is no reference to an investigation by AGS, no mention of clothing worn by pedestrian, sobriety etc. The pedestrian doesn't remember anything of the event and the only independent witness seems to have only heard the collision rather than seen it.
Very sad situation.

learn

Some important information from that inquest is he died from head injuries and had given up wearing his helmet, probably because he thought he was safe on traffic free cycle tracks.

jon1981

Ive always thought the lanes should be swapped. However i think the logic of the cycle lane being on the outside is due to the shade of the trees resulting in icy build up during winter months making it a hazard for cyclists...not to mention wet leaves