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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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Aph2016

Anyone using a nest with a potterton promax boiler?

deezell

Aph2016 wrote: »

Anyone using a nest with a potterton promax boiler?

That boiler is much the same as any, pumped and fired by closing two terminals with some type of controller. Adding a nest is just a matter of identifying what device currently controls it, timer, stat or both. Has it got a timer added to its front panel. Is the system zoned. HW cylinder? Seperate controller device?

bren2001

Bit of a silly question.

I'm assuming with the Nest offer on EI, it includes the heatlink etc? i.e. is includes everything?

deezell

bren2001 wrote: »

Bit of a silly question.

I'm assuming with the Nest offer on EI, it includes the heatlink etc? i.e. is includes everything?

Not silly. Heatlink is an Integral part of the Nest. In the UK/EU market they separated the high voltage/volt free contacts from the stat itself to the Healink box, which is then low voltage wired or wirelessly connected.
Just FYI, the Nest supplied in the US had a pair of low volt contacts which wired directly to to the boiler. It could be popped on the wall in direct replacement for the existing wall stat. It was standard for gas boilers there to have a low current circuit powered from the heat of the pilot lamp to open the valve on demand. This I'd imagine is from the time gas boilers were not connected to a mains power source. This nest would likely explode if wired to a European boiler which had mains 220v across the contacts when open. Don't import one of these!

Pique

deezell wrote: »

kave2 wrote: »

So in order to have full control, I need Tado starter kit, additional thermostat and extension kit? This would allow me to have full control over 2 zones and HW, am I right? The EPH unit would then be removed?

Other possibility is to keep EPH unit and replace the 2 thermostats. This solution doesn't limit me to Tado only, I can go with Nest, Hive, Netamo... HW will be controlled by the EPH unit.

I'm trying to wrap my head around it as I am completely new to this.

In general, is there any advantage of Tado vs Nest? Or any other ones? I do like the look of Nest. Thaks a lot.

You don't need to remove the EPH for any solution, just set the zone to always on if you are changing the zone stat to a smart one. EPH is a timer, thats all. The Tado extension kit kit adds timing for the HW, and wireless connection for one tado stat. Tado stats, Netamo also, will wire directly in place of eph stats. Nest stat comes complete with extension box known as heatlink. This also gives nest wireless connection and HW control .You must buy a complete second nest to get the extra stat.
You can upgrade a zone at a time. Two tado stats, leave HW timing on EPH. One nest kit, leave one heating zone on EPH stat and timer, and so on.

How will Tado or Netatmo stats communicate with the EPH controller? How do you pair them? Netatmo are Bluetooth to the relay, EPH stats are RF to the controller.

deezell

Pique wrote: »

How will Tado or Netatmo stats communicate with the EPH controller? How do you pair them? Netatmo are Bluetooth to the relay, EPH stats are RF to the controller.

If you are referring to the EPH controller in kave2's query which you quoted, this is not a wireless controller. The stats pictured in his original query are TimeGuard brand stats. There's no mention of them being the wireless version or the wired, they look identical, but I'd expect Kave2 to have mentioned it. Either way, the TimeGuard stat or it's RF receiver is wired back to the controller and zone valves of a three zone system. The Tado or Netamo will just connect to those wire pairs, at the wall plate if they are wired. If they're RF, then back where the timeguard receivers connect to the eph controller and valves, using their own wireless receiver relays.

kave2

deezell wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

How will Tado or Netatmo stats communicate with the EPH controller? How do you pair them? Netatmo are Bluetooth to the relay, EPH stats are RF to the controller.

If you are referring to the EPH controller in kave2's query which you quoted, this is not a wireless controller. The stats pictured in his original query are TimeGuard brand stats. There's no mention of them being the wireless version or the wired, they look identical, but I'd expect Kave2 to have mentioned it. Either way, the TimeGuard stat or it's RF receiver is wired back to the controller and zone valves of a three zone system. The Tado or Netamo will just connect to those wire pairs, at the wall plate if they are wired. If they're RF, then back where the timeguard receivers connect to the eph controller and valves, using their own wireless receiver relays.

Those TimesGuard stats are wired ones.

thecivvie

Running a Netatmo thermostat with a pellet stove. No back boiler as the house is a converted garage. After a recent heart attack, the netatmo is making one heck of a difference. Although it took me a while to get the stove to respond solely to the thermostat, due to Italian instructions

deadl0ck

Hi all,
I'm considering installing a tado thermostat. I need to replace my old Robus one.

Here's the current wiring (Click for bigger image):

How should I wire into a tado ?

Thanks !

deezell

deadl0ck wrote: »

Hi all,
I'm considering installing a tado thermostat. I need to replace my old Robus one.

Here's the current wiring (Click for bigger image):

How should I wire into a tado ?

Thanks !

Park the green, connect the two brown to NO and COM.

Seems to be an extra resident on my app, approaching the house.

Tado really does seem to be an awesome system. However there is one big downside with it. It doesn't seem to be easy to find installers for it or cheap.

Nest, Netatmo, Hive, Evohome can all be gotten through one of the gas companies here and seem to be easy to arrange an install and cheap as they are included in various grants.

Unfortunately no such option seems to exist for Tado which is a big pity. Makes it harder to choose it and get it installed. Tado really needs to partner with one of the gas companies here.

deezell

bk wrote: »

Tado really does seem to be an awesome system. However there is one big downside with it. It doesn't seem to be easy to find installers for it or cheap.

Nest, Netatmo, Hive, Evohome can all be gotten through one of the gas companies here and seem to be easy to arrange an install and cheap as they are included in various grants.

Unfortunately no such option seems to exist for Tado which is a big pity. Makes it harder to choose it and get it installed. Tado really needs to partner with one of the gas companies here.

If you buy a Tado, during the registration process you are given the option of self install or professional install. I'd like to know what options are presented with the professional install. I'd imagine a straight replacement install for an existing stat should be a quick job for an electrician/plumber. How much they charge is another story, but it cant be any more than changing a light switch. Different story if you expect them to deal with the registration, pairing, app installation etc. In the case of the other stats, I'm not sure how much work the installers do to get your app up and running etc. The nest can be installed and running locally without the app connected, or even the wifi back to the nest connected. Does the installer do all this? connect to your router, open an account for you, install the app on your phone etc?

deezell wrote: »

If you buy a Tado, during the registration process you are given the option of self install or professional install. I'd like to know what options are presented with the professional install. I'd imagine a straight replacement install for an existing stat should be a quick job for an electrician/plumber. How much they charge is another story, but it cant be any more than changing a light switch. Different story if you expect them to deal with the registration, pairing, app installation etc. In the case of the other stats, I'm not sure how much work the installers do to get your app up and running etc. The nest can be installed and running locally without the app connected, or even the wifi back to the nest connected. Does the installer do all this? connect to your router, open an account for you, install the app on your phone etc?

I don't know, maybe they do, either way that is super simple and shouldn't take more then 5 minutes.

I'm finding it a bit frustrating, Tado looks perfect for my sister, but it doesn't make sense for her to get it, when she can get a full Evohome system with a €1000 grant from EI + SEAI!

Tado could be benefiting from these sort of grants if they partnered with a company in Ireland. Looks like a big missed opportunity for them IMO.

deezell

bk wrote: »

I don't know, maybe they do, either way that is super simple and shouldn't take more then 5 minutes.

I'm finding it a bit frustrating, Tado looks perfect for my sister, but it doesn't make sense for her to get it, when she can get a full Evohome system with a €1000 grant from EI + SEAI!

Tado could be benefiting from these sort of grants if they partnered with a company in Ireland. Looks like a big missed opportunity for them IMO.

Don't you have to change boilers, install zone valves etc, to get that level of grant? surely not for just putting in a new stat and maybe some TRVs. I've yet to see a quote for a grant aided heating/solar/boiler where the price pre grant wasn't astronomical. I was quoted 5K pre grant just to change boiler. Perhaps with the smart stat and a few TRVs you can satisfy the zoning requirement without any plumbing work. If that's the case, just get someone in to wire the stat, put the TRVs on the rads and sign the grant form. If only.

deezell wrote: »

Don't you have to change boilers, install zone valves etc, to get that level of grant? surely not for just putting in a new stat and maybe some TRVs. I've yet to see a quote for a grant aided heating/solar/boiler where the price pre grant wasn't astronomical. I was quoted 5K pre grant just to change boiler. Perhaps with the smart stat and a few TRVs you can satisfy the zoning requirement without any plumbing work. If that's the case, just get someone in to wire the stat, put the TRVs on the rads and sign the grant form. If only.

I think a Stat and some TRV's and maybe some control of hot-water might be enough to get a grant, see this page:

https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/honeywell

How much does Honeywell Evohome Cost?

Price of each installation is based on a free quote visit. If your home was built before 2006, Electric Ireland will apply an upfront discount of over €1,000 to your final price.

As a guide on price, a standard semi-detatcehed home with 8 radiators will cost €1,215.

Discounts include €407 Electric Ireland offer plus €650 SEAI Better Energy Homes Grant.

deezell

bk wrote: »

I think a Stat and some TRV's and maybe some control of hot-water might be enough to get a grant, see this page:

https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/honeywell

€650 would get you a tado stat, ext box and 5 TRVs from Official Irish Tado site, installation would be very simple if your rads already had try heads. Pay tado for approved installer and you should be looking at the kit for free. 5 trvs effectively creates 6 zones, which should satisfy grant. Have to look into this more.

deezell wrote: »

€650 would get you a tado stat, ext box and 5 TRVs from Official Irish Tado site, installation would be very simple if your rads already had try heads. Pay tado for approved installer and you should be looking at the kit for free. 5 trvs effectively creates 6 zones, which should satisfy grant. Have to look into this more.

I agree, I was thinking exactly the same, but so far I haven't been able to find an approved installer who does Tado. They all seem to be Nest and/or evohome.

sharkman

deezell wrote: »

Park the green, connect the two brown to NO and COM.

Seems to be an extra resident on my app, approaching the house.

I'm having serious problems with my tado @ the moment , I have it divided in two zones . Hot Water and heating , so have the extension Kit in the hot press along with two shut off valves . Now , tado will call for heating but no flame from boiler . However if I call for hot water it will flame , I need to manually throw the danfoss two way valve in order to get HW to the rads . This however seems to bypass the Tado Thermostat . Seems to me that the danfoss TW valve is shot .

On aside note is the Honeywell Evohome sysyem geo linked like Tado ?

Wheety

Not sure if this has been asked but just wondering what would suit our set up.

We have a combi boiler. The installer set it up with 2 heating zones, upstairs and down. We also have always on hot water (no hot water cylinder). We have a wall thermostat in the bedroom and one downstairs in the hall but the controller for turning heating on and off is on the landing upstairs.

Would like to be able to control the heating from an app so we could turn it on before we get home and also still be able to set a timer. A learning thermostat is not too important.

Thanks.

judeboy101

hey all just all set to try to convert to netatmo

i have the netatmo relay and the stat. id like to

replace the 2 channel timer with the relay
get rid of the upstairs stat
use the netatmo stat as a mobile stat
use alexa and app to sort out when it comes on and off

just wondering how to wire up the netatmo? it has 4 colours

thanks in advance

deezell

sharkman wrote: »

I'm having serious problems with my tado @ the moment , I have it divided in two zones . Hot Water and heating , so have the extension Kit in the hot press along with two shut off valves . Now , tado will call for heating but no flame from boiler . However if I call for hot water it will flame , I need to manually throw the danfoss two way valve in order to get HW to the rads . This however seems to bypass the Tado Thermostat . Seems to me that the danfoss TW valve is shot .

On aside note is the Honeywell Evohome sysyem geo linked like Tado ?

Probably just the actuator, easiy replaced, but check that you have voltage coming out on the heating terminal on the ext box to the actuator. Also take the actuator off and see does it turn when the heating calls. The valve may be sticky.

deezell

Wheety wrote: »

Not sure if this has been asked but just wondering what would suit our set up.

We have a combi boiler. The installer set it up with 2 heating zones, upstairs and down. We also have always on hot water (no hot water cylinder). We have a wall thermostat in the bedroom and one downstairs in the hall but the controller for turning heating on and off is on the landing upstairs.

Would like to be able to control the heating from an app so we could turn it on before we get home and also still be able to set a timer. A learning thermostat is not too important.

Thanks.

Easy peasy, just replace one or both of your stats with tado or Netamo, directly wired in place. Set the controller to always on for the zones with these. Smart stats will do timing and temperature, app will give you control away from home, tado can do this automatically by turning diwn beat when you're away and back up as you approach home. Nest can do this also but stat wiring a little more involved if you're diy-ing.

Wheety

deezell wrote: »

Easy peasy, just replace one or both of your stats with tado or Netamo, directly wired in place. Set the controller to always on for the zones with these. Smart stats will do timing and temperature, app will give you control away from home, tado can do this automatically by turning diwn beat when you're away and back up as you approach home. Nest can do this also but stat wiring a little more involved if you're diy-ing.

Thanks. Could you tell me what extra set up Nest requires?

Ush1

deezell wrote: »

Easy peasy, just replace one or both of your stats with tado or Netamo, directly wired in place. Set the controller to always on for the zones with these. Smart stats will do timing and temperature, app will give you control away from home, tado can do this automatically by turning diwn beat when you're away and back up as you approach home. Nest can do this also but stat wiring a little more involved if you're diy-ing.

How can the stats set the temp if the controller is a third party device?

deezell

Ush1 wrote: »

How can the stats set the temp if the controller is a third party device?

Stats always set the temperature. Controller is just a timer.

Wheety wrote: »

Thanks. Could you tell me what extra set up Nest requires?

Nest has to be wired directly to the boiler. Might require an electrician. See the Nest manuals for details.

deezell

Ush1 wrote: »

How can the stats set the temp if the controller is a third party device?

Just to explain a bit more, a zones system works using motorised valves to send the hot water to the rads in their zone. For a zone to activate the timer in the controller closes a switch for that zone, whose voltage goes to the stat for that zone, then to the valve. The valve will open if both the timer is on and the stat is closed , ( room temp below setting). When any zone valve closes it fires the boiler and circulation pump. By setiing controller to always on for a zone there is only the stat to turn on and off the valve and flow of heat to the rads. Put a smart stat in here and you have full control of that zones temperature and timing schedule.

deezell

Wheety wrote: »

Thanks. Could you tell me what extra set up Nest requires?

In your case you have two zones, so stats will be wired to zone valves which in turn are wired to the boiler. With the nest, it's heatlink box is situated next to the valve where the wires come back from the old manual stat/ controller.
These wires are connected to the heatlink which operates the valve and the nest stat talks wirelessly to the heatlink. The Nest can be put anywhere but needs power from a little phone style charger. If you put the nest where the old stat was, you can re-use the redundant wire pair to bring low voltage power from another pair of terminals on the heatlink to the nest. These terminal also carry the digital signals from the nest back to the heatlink so wireless is not used, and you don't need the little power adaptor. Two zones means buying two nest kits.

deezell

judeboy101 wrote: »

hey all just all set to try to convert to netatmo

i have the netatmo relay and the stat. id like to

replace the 2 channel timer with the relay

get rid of the upstairs stat

use the netatmo stat as a mobile stat

use alexa and app to sort out when it comes on and off

just wondering how to wire up the netatmo? it has 4 colours

thanks in advance

Easiest way in your case is to put the relay where the controller was, wire blue to blue, brown to brown ( neutral and live). Wire the black to the black, and the grey to the two live Brown's. This is a simple switched live circuit, you had a two channel controller but were only using the one for heating. Next you either turn the old stat up full, or remove it and link it's two brown wires together, insulate and push them into the wall and cover over with a plate or filler.
Ideally you place the relay box beside your combi boiler (gas I presume? Make and model?) You wire the brown and blue to the live and neutral in under the boiler cover, (there should be a pair heading from here to the controller, you'll recognise the 4 core cable used, black brown blue green/yellow). The black and grey go to the switched live and return terminals, which should currently have a pair coming from the controller and the wall stat, I'm guessing the black from the controller and one of the browns from the stat, but it's possible only a single switched live is coming back to the boiler as the controller black is connected to the controlled live when switched. This is probably tied to one of the stat Brown's at the boiler, the return brown goes to the boiler switched live to fire it. If you're not comfortable poking at the electrics in your boiler the first method will work, it's the same circuit, and you won't have reg'd gas installers screaming at us here for doing a Daniel O'Donnell on the boiler.

Ush1

deezell wrote: »

Just to explain a bit more, a zones system works using motorised valves to send the hot water to the rads in their zone. For a zone to activate the timer in the controller closes a switch for that zone, whose voltage goes to the stat for that zone, then to the valve. The valve will open if both the timer is on and the stat is closed , ( room temp below setting). When any zone valve closes it fires the boiler and circulation pump. By setiing controller to always on for a zone there is only the stat to turn on and off the valve and flow of heat to the rads. Put a smart stat in here and you have full control of that zones temperature and timing schedule.

That would only work with wired stats though correct?