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Problems with new BF and his ex

OldNotWIse

Looking for some advice.

I've been seeing a really great guy for a couple of months. We were acquaintances for a long time and then started seeing each other. Everything really feels so right with him, and we get along so well and largely share a lot of the same values, plans for the future etc.

He has an ex and two young teenage children that he still lives with. It would appear that he pretty much does everything for his ex - he works full time, pays the mortgage, bills, does all the washing, ironing, cooking, being there for the kids, minding them when she goes out etc. When we spend time together, it has to be organized well in advance so that it is actually feasible. Even though he has a great job, he is always broke because his ex appears to be a total leech.

I don't particularly care for someone who has a lot of money etc. but I do find it annoying when there are constant limitations put on our nights out because of him being broke - even though he clears twice my salary.

I'm somewhat torn as to how to deal with this. We get on so well and I really like him so I don't particularly want to come across as some unreasonable blow in who starts putting a gun to his head or dictating how he spends his time and money. I am also not privy to the dynamics of the relationship with his ex. In addition, at least he is a great dad and has stepped up to his responsibilities.

On the other hand, I think his relationship with his ex becomes my business when it starts to affect my life, and I have to effectively carve my plans out around hers. And thinking longer term, if we were to have a future, how could we even consider kids in his current living and financial situation?

Would appreciate some outside views please (and thank you)

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Ann84

Hello, i think you should start to ask some questions and find out why they are still living together and seperated firstly - and secondly try to find out what his plan is in relation to separating households as I am sure he wasn’t intending on the current situation continuing indefinitely surely...
I would tread carefully as you say in relation to inputting your views just yet until you have a full understanding as to why their setup is as is given he has a good salary.

It’s complicated but he will need to be in control of separating that whole situation before committing to you, you don’t want to be the bad guy

OldNotWIse

Ann84 wrote: »

<Snip> There really is no need to quote the entire post

Being the bad guy is the last thing I want, and I do feel that I am being unreasonable at times. I've mentioned that I find their living situation odd - it's been like that for a couple of years. He hasn't dated since they separated so I suppose there has been no incentive to change. The fact that they are not divorced after 4/5 years is also a bit worrying.

tomwaterford

OldNotWIse wrote: »

<Snip> There really is no need to quote the entire post. It's just there ^

I do think you have to be legally separated for few years before you can divorce?

I'm guessing he's keeping living situation going to be close to the kids?

As for helping your situation I can't really provide much help,
Only it's his money to spend as he wants??
Do his ex work atal?? (She's obviously looks after kids when ye meet?)

...and 1 last thing.. if he has teenage kids,would he even want more kids??

neonsofa

Firstly, the living together would be a huge concern. It is a lot more understandable in the current economic climate and housing crisis but unfortunately the reason for it happening doesn't negate the fact that it can be problematic. Has he discussed his plans for full separation? Where he sleeps? What boundaries they have agreed upon? How much the children know/expect to happen? Is there a legal agreement? How much of a say does he have in what happens in the house or is she calling the shots? Is he hally doing all these things or is it expected of him? This is a discussion you need to have imo before you decide anything.

Does she know about You? Do the kids? Has she moved on? Are you planning to meet her? May seem trivial but I think these are things you need to ask.

Once that discussion is had and you if are happy with the situation, my best advice,above all, would be for you to be upfront about your concerns from the start. That doesn't mean ultimatums or demands but be honest about your feelings and needs. I spent too long biting my tongue in a very similar situation, in an effort to be reasonable and what it actually did was facilitate the behaviour and the status quo. You are right to not want your relationship to be affected by another woman. Yes he has a responsibility to his kids and there will be times where he has to prioritise family commitments but if it is HER demands as opposed to the kids' then there needs to be an honest discussion about that. Its very delicate because they are his kids and he will want to do right by them and sometimes it is hard for people to distinguish between where the kids' needs/wants ends and the ex partners wants/needs begins. And in previous experience there is sometimes a control element with ex partners. Not in all cases of course, but in some, and in my own, the power an ex has over the children/access/family court can absolutely influence how the other person behaves and gives in to demands. Hopefully that isnt the case with this guy as his kids are teens.

He may decide that you are wrong in your beliefs/concerns and if that is the case then imo I would suggest you seriously reconsider the relationship because it will then always be an issue between you if he doesn't view it as one. You will resent that he will not stop the behaviour and he will resent that you can't see his point of view. That's not to say either of you would be right or wrong-just an incompatible view on things and when families are involved that doesn't really work. It will always come across as a personal attack on him and his kids if arguments happen,if that makes sense. Cause it's his family. If he agrees with your concerns and acknowledges an issue then ye can work out together how to deal with it as a team but you do need to be a united team. Otherwise it's just you fighting the two of them. And that's not a relationship.

Definitely tread lightly and take the emotion out of it because it is a sensitive family issue and the last thing you want is to appear that you are trying to draw a wedge between any of them. Because that isn't what you want, your concerns are natural and valid. But if you go in too personal and make it about her then he won't see the actual issue at hand. He'll see it as an emotional attack on her. And again she's the mother of his kids. So maybe don't mention that you think she's a leech

If ye are on the same page that's half the battle. If he can't see an issue or is unwilling to address the issue then unfortunately it is a losing battle for you. Speaking from some painful experience on that one.

Also, go with your gut. It tells you a lot. If you ignore it you will kick yourself later.

woodchuck

It sounds like a very messy situation! I wouldn't be so quick to judge though. It's probably more difficult to get a divorce if you're still living together; you have to prove you've been separated for however many years... difficult to do if you're still living in the same house! And in terms of him moving out, if he's as broke as you say he is, then there's probably no way he could afford to rent somewhere else while still paying off the mortgage on the house. And on a more personal level, maybe he wants to stay there to be close to his kids.

As to whether or not the wife is a leech, that's not any of your business. Whatever financial arrangements they have is between the two of them and I wouldn't start sticking my nose in it unless you want to get it bitten off!!

As I said, it's a messy situation. Personally it would be too messy for me and your concerns are valid. But it's up to you whether or not you think the relationship is worth perusing.

Dial Hard

tomwaterford wrote: »

I do think you have to be legally separated for few years before you can divorce?

No requirement to be legally separated before you can divorce, you just have to have been apart for four out of five years.

Unfortunately, because the OP's boyfriend is still sharing finances, living expenses etc. with his ex, that clock hasn't started ticking yet.

OP, I can't help but feel that it's a little early for you to start sticking your oar in here. You've only been going out a few months. His living arrangements are far from ideal and I wouldn't be too happy with the situation myself, but you knew what the story was before you got involved with him, presumably. I suspect that if you push the issue now, you'll be the one to lose out.

OldNotWIse

tomwaterford wrote: »

<Snip> There really is no need to quote the entire post

You are right - legally separated for 4 of the last 5 years. Living in the same house (but as a separated couple) became recognized by the courts as reckonable time for the purposes of this during the recession because of the difficulties attached to running two houses.

His ex doesn't work at all. We meet one evening midweek for two hours and either a Friday or Saturday night for a few hours. She has as much, if not more, time out with her friends and people she might be seeing.

We've had the kid conversation and it is something we both want in a year or two.

OldNotWIse

neonsofa wrote: »

<Snip> There really is no need to quote the entire post

Thanks for this - really useful insight. I wouldn't dream of calling her a leech (or anything derogatory) in front of him as I know that would just come across as a cheap dig. I've been very careful not be critical of her at all when we discussed it but rather "concerned with the situation". It's hard to be diplomatic but I have to be otherwise I will push him away. He said that he is not longer happy with the living situation and he wants to change it but he is afraid that if he stops doing stuff for the kids - that it won't get done. He literally does everything (on top of working full time) - spends an entire day at the weekend washing, drying, ironing, cleaning, cooking for the week etc.

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OldNotWIse

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Thank you for this - your post really is everything that I fear on the inside and haven't been able to say out loud. Up until last year, they did do the 2 week family sun holiday together "for the kids". I know that the kids are the most important ones in this (or any) situation and must always come first but I wonder if the "for the kids" card is not being used to justify crazy behaviour.

I can see why she wouldn't work - she has a live in ex who pays the mortgage*, bills, food shopping, kids stuff, presumably gives her money to go out/ away since she has no income. Her day is free until 4/ 4 30 when the kids come in from school. He is there in the evenings and does all the housework/ shopping etc at the weekend. If I had it that good, I wouldn't rock the boat! :P

*and we all know that no court in the land would take the house off her, notwithstanding that she hasn't contributed anything to the repayments

neonsofa

OldNotWIse wrote: »

<Snip> There really is no need to quote the entire post

The similarities between this and my own experience are just scary. If only for the living situation I would actually think you're seeing my ex!

This "she actually needs my help because if I don't do it the kids will go without" is bull****. Sorry to say it but it's true. If she is that incapable/lazy then firstly, why did he have kids with her, secondly, is he just going to always pick up the slack then? In 5 years time is he gonna leave you at home with your baby and clean her house and do the cooking cause she won't do it for the kids? She's a mother of two kids, if he doesn't back off and let her learn then how will she learn? If he always does it then it will always get done, but nothing changes. And she has a great time cause it's done for her. And then you'll have no support cause you're well able to do it yourself and she "needs the help" more.

OldNotWIse

neonsofa wrote: »

<Snip> There really is no need to quote the entire post

Apparently she suffers from depression and regularly takes to the bed for several days. I do think he is a great guy and obviously very supportive and in a way I feel for him because he is trying to juggle everything and keep everyone happy and everything ticking over - but I have to think about my needs too. Although I want a child, I wouldn't bring one into a situation where I had concerns about how invested the other parent would be

This situation makes me sad (not many things can make me cry at work!) and thinking about leaving him because of this situation makes me sad also.

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OldNotWIse

I guess really liking someone is not enough.

Addle

When and where do you manage to see him?

LegacyUser

OldNotWIse wrote: »

We've had the kid conversation and it is something we both want in a year or two.

For the life of me I can't see how this is a sensible commitment to make in the current circumstances. It might be a lovely idea, but you're not together long and you only see each other twice a week for a few hours, you really haven't had time to get to know each other well enough to turn an idea into an actual plan with a relatively short timeframe. You may have known his as a friend, but not as a prospective father to your child.

That's not to mention the financial strains you'd be under, both his and a joint commitment to a new baby, or the time constraints, where will he suddenly find the time for a new-born? If his ex partner behaves as you describe, I can easily imagine she will become more of a problem once her ex has another child, not less of one.

I think he need to solve his problems (independent of your involvement) before either the two of you enter a committed relationship and you need that relationship to grow and prove itself before you have children.

neonsofa

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Apparently she suffers from depression and regularly takes to the bed for several days. I do think he is a great guy and obviously very supportive and in a way I feel for him because he is trying to juggle everything and keep everyone happy and everything ticking over - but I have to think about my needs too. Although I want a child, I wouldn't bring one into a situation where I had concerns about how invested the other parent would be This situation makes me sad (not many things can make me cry at work!) and thinking about leaving him because of this situation makes me sad also.

Jesus, the similarities are just...!

I have sympathy for her if she is suffering from depression,I do,and it's an awful illness. But constantly facilitating her staying in bed while housework needs to be done is not the answer either. Anyway I digress,I'm not a mental health expert, that's not the point of the discussion, but like, they are both adults,both parents and both responsible for the kids. Depression or not. Many parents suffer from depression and still look after their kids. Now whether or not she is capable to do that or not is not our business if she has genuine health issues but the point still stands,if he keeps doing it,he will keep having to do it.

I'm so sorry you're upset. I know that awful gut wrenching feeling. Wishing "if only she wasn't involved, it'd be perfect". It's awful. Agonising over whether to end it before you're in too deep or whether to get through it and things might work out perfectly. If you just give it a shot.

But will you be miserable while you're giving it a shot? Will it be you making the compromises? You biting your tongue? Having to be understanding? Having to walk on eggshells? Feeling guilty for having natural concerns? Not being able to express things because you "don't understand the situation and how she is sick and the kids are the priority" as if you don't understand that the kids come first. Maybe I'm projecting here. I'm not trying to, I just feel the similarities are so strong and I don't want anybody to go through what I did tbh:(

I suppose the big thing is if he is in it with you. Is he fighting it with you,is he prepared to tackle it head on with you and plan a life or is he expecting you to wait patiently in the sidelines til it's a good time for him/her- cause I'm gonna be honest, if he's waiting for a good time to move things on then it will never happen.

leggo

OP you're totally right about your concerns, everything you've said and that has been said to you is fair. Unfortunately it's none of your business, I know this having tried to make messy situations like this work and failed (I'd find it hard to bite my tongue and now am sick of apologising or feeling guilty for having my own wants and needs so just don't enter situations where they're not on the list of priorities).

The only decision you can make is if you can put up with it or not. You're being asked to take a LOT here. It's totally fair to choose to not option and find someone who chooses to keep all this baggage for whatever reason. In no situation is it ever okay for your ex to be higher on your list of priorities than your current partner and that's what this sounds like tbh.

Jenneke87

My sister met a man under similar circumstances: had a child (albeit against his will), still lived with his ex-girlfriend (whom, at first, wasn't even allowed to know that he had a new girlfriend as it would create problems at home). Two years on and he still hasn't left the house, my sister is a wreck emotionally now..She has heard every excuse under the sun by now.. I would be very careful in how you proceed forwards. Let him tie up loose ends at home first..

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December2012

His finances have nothing to do with you. He knows what he is doing.

neonsofa

December2012 wrote: »

His finances have nothing to do with you. He knows what he is doing.

They may not be now, but if they are seriously discussing a life together and children in the future, his finances will be, his ability to provide financially for his future children with op will be her business so op is right to be discussing these things with him and raising concerns now so they can be resolved before they do that. It's better she does prior to starting a family than in a few years in a family court trying to get maintenance from him because he says he can't afford to pay cause he's paying a mortgage on his other kids' home and providing for an ex that cant/won't work. It's actually very responsible imo for op to be considering these things if she plans to start a family with him. Yes it's probably a bit premature in this case but I think op realises that it will take time to separate finances etc and it is realistic to keep that in mind if they are planning a family themselves.

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Dial Hard

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You are right - legally separated for 4 of the last 5 years. Living in the same house (but as a separated couple) became recognized by the courts as reckonable time for the purposes of this during the recession because of the difficulties attached to running two houses.

This is only half correct. First of all, you don't need to be legally (i.e. judicially) separated, you just need to be able to prove to the court that you're no longer together and haven't been since x date.

Also, yes, the courts will accept cases where the couple have had to continue living in the same house for financial reasons, however, the couple have to show that they have been living completely separate lives other than that. So, no shared finances (other than the mortgage). No joint accounts. No shared tax credits. No shared food bills, or credit cards, or holidays, or any other living expenses at all. In practice, this is incredibly hard to do, which is why the vast majority of couples end up living separately before they seek a divorce.

Clearly, your boyfriend and his ex haven't been doing any of this, which is why, as I said earlier, the four year clock hasn't even started ticking for him yet.

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Dial Hard

....... wrote: »

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Unless I'm picking things up wrong, they're not legally separated, though. And they won't be granted one either unless they can prove completely separate finances and living expenses. Which they can't. Perhaps the OP could clear that up for us - ONW, have they been to court and been granted a judicial decree of separation?

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neonsofa

....... wrote: »

Oh sorry - the OP said they were legally separated in the post of hers you quoted.

Oh I missed that myself. That's a positive sign though in fairness. At some level they have begun the separation,legally is a big step like.

Dial Hard

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I thought she was replying to someone else asking what the general rule is, not specifying their specific scenario. She might let us know when she comes back. It would be very unusual for a court to have granted a judicial separation under their living arrangements. I've been through the process myself and it can be bloody difficult even when you're not even living in the same county.

Either way, the OP is in a crappy situation and she has some tough decisions ahead of her, imo. A friend of mine is in a relationship with a guy in similar circumstances and it's all a bit of a sh*tshow, to be honest. Compounded by the fact that she got pregnant after only a few months. They're hanging in there but the cracks are appearing faster than a crumbling levee.

Mr. Incognito

You cannot dictate how he lives his life. Only he can.

His wife is going to have to forge a path for herself. He should be paying a fixed amount to her in maintence every month and cap it at that.

You sound like his mistress to be honest.