Digital_Guy wrote: » Our only real obstacle at this stage is budget. We'd love to work with an Irish agency or developer, but realise we'd be looking at a commitment of around 20-30K, which is outside our budget. As such, I'd like to see if anyone here can recommend a solid app dev agency abroad, who would do great work but where their location means their rates are lower?
14ned wrote: » Similar quality is increasingly the same price anywhere in the world. An Irish businessman I know was appalled at the cost of software development here in Ireland for doing up a crypto currency trading website, and did a whole load of work discovering dev shops aboard. A Thai place he found, very good reputation, quoted 90% of what the Irish firm did. Barely worth the savings. An Indian place he found, also with good reputation, actually quoted slightly more than the Irish firm. The days of getting software done cheap abroad I suspect are gone. Irish, Thailand and India are similarly priced for the same quality of work. We are all much cheaper than the US. My advance to my businessman friend is the same as to you: if you want quality software done cheap, either pay for it at market rates or be prepared to hand over most of the equity and pray you can find someone willing to take on the risk. Ideas are cheap. Execution is expensive. Niall
Digital_Guy wrote: » Can see how it must be moving that way for sure, but in practice you must be able to find companies doing quality work for cheapear even just because they wouldn't be able to charge clients in those countries the same rates for obvious reasons.
14ned wrote: » Actually no. They no more charge less to local customers than I do to Irish customers. I charge everybody the same, and so do they. (There is a huge gap between rich and poor in countries like India and Thailand, but their wealthy are just wealthy as those here, it's the low average which makes those countries appear to be poor. But their middle class nowadays have similar charging levels to our middle class for the most part, and software development is one of the most globalised sectors in the world, so prices converge) Some eastern European countries and Russia do appear to trade currently at a discount however for the same calibre of work, presumably because the middle class over there are hurting. I know some very, very good engineers who will work for €30/hour for example, whilst I simply wouldn't work for less than €50/hour and more usually for much more if it weren't for the recession in C++ right now. So I guess take your pick and see what happens. Niall
awec wrote: » Maybe you could find someone who fancies earning themselves some extra cash to do it in their spare time (i.e. very part time). It'll take longer and communication will be much more difficult but it will most likely be cheaper if you are reluctant to invest too much at this stage. Can always pay for an agency if initial response is good, though changing dev will come with it's own set of problems I guess. Not sure if it would fit with how you'd like it to go though.
W0LFMAN wrote: » Would you consider building the app Yourself?. There are two ways about it. Buy a monthly subscription one like "Goodbarber" no code required. Or learn how to code one. Would take around a year to learn. And about €5-6000 in 1-to-1 tuition fees.
Aswerty wrote: » A word of warning to anyone partnering up out of the blue. The developers work is front loaded in these partnerships so they take on the majority of the risk. That's why a pay/equity split is often a better deal since it means the idea/business person puts skin in the game early. It also means they can keep more equity and stay in the driving seat in terms of equity share. They also get the skill set they need without having to dig into their capital too much. Also, since money is changing hands the developer has to structure their work load in a much more professional way since the other party is a client as well as a partner - this is a very valuable situation for the other party. This level of expectation/professionalism will also hopefully scare away amateur developers from just giving it a go. So for example a 30k project might turn into a 10k project + 20% equity (these are just example figures). Since most of these agreements are a bit loose the equity is ultimately going to be a gentleman's agreement but getting it signed in writing is still worth it for both sides. Saying that, it's important to plan out the milestones as to when a company is to be registered and the equity split put in place. In these endeavours the main concern of all sides should be about how risk and reward is balanced fairly. This is vital not only in terms of fairness but this is also the best approach to building trust among parties. A figure it out later attitude is a recipe for the developer to get shafted down the road. And in any case, that kind of attitude will cause experienced developers to avoid you like the plague.
Aswerty wrote: » Oh, and just to add for your own benefit. The standard of execution for social mobile apps ( e.g. dating) is so high these days. I know a guy who tried to build a meet up style app and he failed hard in terms of the level of polish and usability you need to get to. His app never really got to a point where the general public would have considered it market ready. And that's before they even got around to tackling the problem of adoption let alone generating revenue or securing major funding. And he had two developers involved - one partnered and one outsourced. I'm sure his sunken cost was beyond the 30k you've been mentioning. In terms of fundraising - the US is the only place that the market share and VC model rather than a traditional revenue model is entertained by investors. So unless you're turning the whole e-dating industry on it's head - you're the former and not the latter. This means starting this in Ireland is about the worst handicap you could have unless your differentiator is specific to the Irish market. Though thinking out loud, digitising the matchmaking industry with a white label product would probably be the sort of thing you could get off the ground here. That's a cash up front business! Investors in Ireland understand that kind of thing and moving stagnating industries into the digital age is a well known path to success. Personally, I think creating a successful business focussed on online dating is one of the most difficult goals you can set yourself. It really is the new "we're building a social app" which was the hot thing 10 years ago and which literally all but a handful failed (as in you could probably count them on your fingers).
Aswerty wrote: » Ha, yeah it's easy to write things off. There's actually a great thread somewhere by the guy who started Dropbox with everyone telling him why it's not going to work. Or another thread with Linus Torvalds the creator of Linux being told all the reasons why Linux isn't any good.
Khalil Great Hearse wrote: » Get a contractor to do it. Put some effort into getting someone decent. My services are sold for obscene amounts of money by my employer. You'll definitely get better value using a contractor. You won't save much and open yourself to significant risk employing someone based abroad. Best off just getting someone based in Ireland.
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » Any half decent contractor is going to cost 400 - 500 per day.
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » Any half decent contractor is going to cost 400 - 500 per day. Also OP, consider that you'll need backend services such as running on Amazon / Azure. Consider also that the app being designed around personal data, security is a premier concern. A lot depends on the complexity of the functionality. It would be worth using one of the free non-coding app builders just to design the UI to get a proper feel for what is required.
ishotjr2 wrote: » When I want to prototype something with a technology I am not familiar with I go to https://www.freelancer.com/ I hire between 2 and 3 different "Freelancers" to do the same project. Then whichever one I have the best working relationship with I use for a longer period. But I pay all three up to their completion. Usually this gets me as far as filling in the more important "unknown unknowns" so at least the project appears short term de-risked. Obviously this is not the same as building a team which you will need for the commercial endeavour. One of the surprising results I have found is that the best value is typically not in India/China. I have even found for some projects the best value to be in US which I would not of expected. OP: If you are of the mind of "build it and they will come" I would suggest you research the timeline/trajectory of other start-ups in the same market vertical before putting any money into it.
