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PCP finance.

[Deleted User]

Ok so after a while of my brother and I trying to figure out the benefits of PCP we can't find any.

He's looking at getting a new Audi and we've been looking into pcp, he changes every 2 years or so and might have 15 k miles maximum on the clock so we thought pcp might suit him better.

You got to come up with a large deposit if you don't have a trade in and while your monthly payments appear low when you add in the fact you need a new deposit for the new pcp after 3 years your 300 a month pcp suddenly turns into 600+ pm.

So what's the benefit over hp or bank loan ?

The only hing with hp or loan is you pay the full interest where as pcp yup don't ?

Either way I see little benefit on a normal loan and trade in and re finance after 3 years or so. Only thing is VW bank has much lower interest than any other bank or finance.

For me doing 20-25 k miles a year pcp would leave me with not much on the gfv.

It seems to me that people could get caught out at the end because you can be damn sure you won't have much over the gfv to use as a deposit.

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Cyrus

DaveyDave wrote: »

Just wondering for those who have traded their PCP cars back in, have you gotten a fair value on it? I'd be curious to know if dealers try stiff you for silly scratches or blemishes VS a regular trade in?

not my experience, i have traded 2 cars in now and entered new PCPs with no issues, both around 24-26 months into a 36month pcp,

i moved marques the last time from audi to mercedes

DaveyDave

Just wondering for those who have traded their PCP cars back in, have you gotten a fair value on it? I'd be curious to know if dealers try stiff you for silly scratches or blemishes VS a regular trade in?

sheff the ref

Casati wrote: »

You've a 161 Ibiza with 80k on the clock to trade in? I'd say you'll need to prepared for a big shock - better to keep it as your on 0% finance unless its really too small for you?

I called in to enquire on the last day of the VAT free deal.

Basically the VAT is deducted from the Highest Named Price. A cash customer would come close to getting that deal

0% VAT sounds good, but in reality the customer isnt gaining much. It was a deal that might suit the right type of customer in the right place at the right time though

carsfan2

acronym Chilli wrote: »

What did you buy yourself?
Prob makes more sense to stay in your deal. You've neg equity now, but even if you never do achieve positive equity by end of PCP you hit zero (I.e. hand back car and debt gone, today you'd have to hand back car plus some extra cash).
What kills the economics is depreciation. Worst depreciation is at start, and gets better (rate slows)

Bmw 330e. Lovely car but dealer blames sterling and Bmw 9% price cuts in what he values it at.
BMW seems to keep gfv way too high to have any equity especially now cars are depreciating more rapidly than they were a few years ago when there was a shortage of goodsecond hands and imports were less financially attractive.

Lantus

carsfan2 wrote:

Can you let us know what car you got out of and what youâ€™re in now? Iâ€™m 18 months into a pcp where I put max deposit allowed in and dealer tells me I am in negative equity still and will never have any equity going forwards at any stage. Trying to decide whether or when to get out or just keep.

If you put 30% in then it often makes sense to buy outright if circumstances allow.

I have noticed that skoda PCP calculator has been updated recently and the gmfv is much smaller than it used to be. So your buying more of the car in the 3 year term. This pushes up monthlys but must be needed to ensure stability moving forward.

acronym Chilli

carsfan2 wrote: »

Can you let us know what car you got out of and what you’re in now?
I’m 18 months into a pcp where I put max deposit allowed in and dealer tells me I am in negative equity still and will never have any equity going forwards at any stage.
Trying to decide whether or when to get out or just keep.

What did you buy yourself?
Prob makes more sense to stay in your deal. You've neg equity now, but even if you never do achieve positive equity by end of PCP you hit zero (I.e. hand back car and debt gone, today you'd have to hand back car plus some extra cash).
What kills the economics is depreciation. Worst depreciation is at start, and gets better (rate slows)

carsfan2

Can you let us know what car you got out of and what you’re in now?
I’m 18 months into a pcp where I put max deposit allowed in and dealer tells me I am in negative equity still and will never have any equity going forwards at any stage.
Trying to decide whether or when to get out or just keep.

copacetic

Just said I'd update on what I did. Gave up on pcp, imported last week, sold mine this week. Loan for the < 3 year old import is 5 years but about 40% less a month than the pcp offer on a new one and no big deposit. My car sale covers the vrt. Car will land between 5-6k cheaper than available here. Depending on final vrt, Omsp on calculator is way off so appeal likely needed.

Smallish loan gives me a chance to possible pay a few chunks off and finish it in 3 years.

It's definitely more flexible financially than the pcp and can put you into a higher spec but not new car for a lot less a month, not brand new though and no manufacturers warranty worth talking about left.

mickdw

MuddyDog wrote: »

Quick question. If I were to get into a PCP deal now with the below figures:

Car price: 34k
Deposit: 8.5k
Monthly payments: 400pm
GMFV: 13k

If say after a year I want to upgrade to say a 45k car and the market price for a 1 year old version of the car I have is say 26k what would I be looking at to get the 45k car? Seems to me that I'd almost be able to bring the current car back and pay almost nothing and then continue paying about 400pm for a further 3 years with 13k at the end?

Assuming 0 percent finance and a 26k valuation at 1 year, you would have paid 13300 off the 34k car meaning you owe 20700. Considering you figure it would be worth 26k, you would have 5300 deposit to go towards new car.
Basically, a worse situation than going for the 45k car now as your cash deposit is reduced from 8.5k to 5.3k
From rough calcs and again with zero percent finance, you would need to put down 12.5k deposit to drive the 45k car for 3 years paying 400 per month but with a further 18k due at end.
That 12.5k deposit would be 5.3k from equity and an additional 7.2k from you.
If you wanted to go back in and swap it without coming up with any extra cash other than the 5k equity, my calcs say it would cost you 600 per month, again with 18k due at end.
Figure are estimates based on 40% gfv and zero percent interest. Add interest into it, and the figures get a whole lot worse. In addition, the 1 year old car could be worth less than 26k which would further kill the figures.
In short, trading after 1 year is going to be expensive.

MuddyDog

Quick question. If I were to get into a PCP deal now with the below figures:

Car price: 34k
Deposit: 8.5k
Monthly payments: 400pm
GMFV: 13k

If say after a year I want to upgrade to say a 45k car and the market price for a 1 year old version of the car I have is say 26k what would I be looking at to get the 45k car? Seems to me that I'd almost be able to bring the current car back and pay almost nothing and then continue paying about 400pm for a further 3 years with 13k at the end?

mickdw

That was back last March. I believe it was 5.9 at that time. 10 percent discount was running at that time also. Not sure if that is still the case.
The way I saw it, it was basically zero percent credit against full price.
I went in looking for used stuff tbh but didn't like the one I was interested in.
The quote I got was for an e class and yes I'd be of the same opinion re the Mercedes pricing being alittle safer in terms of gfv versus projected resale value.

carsfan2

What apr are Mercedes charging mick?
Presume you were looking at e class?
I was chatting to my accountant who is car shopping and he reckons Mercedes have probably got gmfv about right and Bmw are way too optimistic as are Audi.

mickdw

carsfan2 wrote: »

No figures as I have just made general enquiries.
I have asked what apr is charged on used cars. Told it depended on a number of factors?!
“What would I like to pay per month?”
“why would you buy a 171 when we have 9% off 181?”
No straight talking.
Painful really.

That is the crap that has made buying a car a hassle now whereas previously it would have been a great pleasure to be car shopping.
Mercedes is the only dealer that I recently went to where the salesman sat down, gave me pricing on a factory order, pricing on a car from stock (suitably lower), did the figures for me, offered a sensible straight sale discount and said he wouldnt be hounding me on the phone with better offers.
He had an amount of sales chat but that is to be expected but overall, it got it fairly right and I will be calling again to have a look.
He was also realistic when commenting on equity at end etc.
Car was alittle too expensive but overall a pleasant experience. BMW on the other hand beyond bad..... Just gave off an impression of attempting to fleece me at every turn.

fago

Thanks for info - proposal is a chain, seller already has cash to clear PCP and then I buy car, so I will see letter beforehand

EndaHonesty

fago wrote: »

Just looking at a newish VW.
Its about 4-5 months to go on its PCP, and seller is going to clear PCP and sell privately. Obviously I will be verifying all of this if it goes ahead.
What I'm wondering about is if the PCP ran its course do VW apply a mileage excess and if so how much.
Car has almost 100 klms on it, so if PCP limit was say 20K pa, the excess would be 40Kms
- is there a mileage limit on VW PCPs
- what's the limit
- what's the excess mileage charge and do they usually apply it

Thanks

Mileage limits only apply if you are handing back the car.

The seller is buying the car (paying the balloon payment) so it's not relevant to this situation.

fago

Just looking at a newish VW.
Its about 4-5 months to go on its PCP, and seller is going to clear PCP and sell privately. Obviously I will be verifying all of this if it goes ahead.
What I'm wondering about is if the PCP ran its course do VW apply a mileage excess and if so how much.
Car has almost 100 klms on it, so if PCP limit was say 20K pa, the excess would be 40Kms
- is there a mileage limit on VW PCPs
- what's the limit
- what's the excess mileage charge and do they usually apply it

Thanks

vandriver

€18,900 vrt included.How does that compare to your gmfv?
https://www.cargiant.co.uk/car/bmw/520d/MF64MXS

carsfan2

markad1 wrote: »

I was in looking for a 171 5 series on Sat and the sales lad had no interest in talking 171. All he wanted to do was spec up a 181 and offer PCP on it. Still haven't got any figures yet

Be very slow to go pcp on Bmw unless you’re not bothered having no or minuscule equity in the future. I’m in the middle of one and will have little or none.
Values of 2/3 year old cars are crashing due to uk imports and 9% price reductions.

markad1

carsfan2 wrote: »

I’ve contacted 3 Bmw dealers about 171 5 series and can’t get a straight answer as to what apr they charge.
Anybody know?
I’m guessing it’s high.. so they aren’t forthcoming.

I was in looking for a 171 5 series on Sat and the sales lad had no interest in talking 171. All he wanted to do was spec up a 181 and offer PCP on it. Still haven't got any figures yet

carsfan2

No figures as I have just made general enquiries.
I have asked what apr is charged on used cars. Told it depended on a number of factors?!
“What would I like to pay per month?”
“why would you buy a 171 when we have 9% off 181?”
No straight talking.
Painful really.

mickdw

Did they give you detailed figures?

carsfan2

I’ve contacted 3 Bmw dealers about 171 5 series and can’t get a straight answer as to what apr they charge.
Anybody know?
I’m guessing it’s high.. so they aren’t forthcoming.

copacetic

mickdw wrote: »

They wouldn't be giving 3 times the true value of the trade in. Depending on value of trade in, they could well be giving 3 times the very poor offer given against a used car. So poor offer could be 3k with true value of 6k for example.
With diesel scrappage and available discount being thrown into trade in offer, they could be offering 9k for the trade in.
The interest rate would be my concern.
Are they changing the interest rate when offering the diesel scrappage?

No need to guess I said in my post they offered auction value against a second hand car and double to triple that against a new one. Of course auction value == very poor offer to most people, but it's a reasonable way of comparing prices and it's what they will do with my car straight away, so it's likely to be actually what they will get for it. No mention of diesel scrappage, whether it's included or not without scrapping the car I don't know.

mickdw

They wouldn't be giving 3 times the true value of the trade in. Depending on value of trade in, they could well be giving 3 times the very poor offer given against a used car. So poor offer could be 3k with true value of 6k for example.
With diesel scrappage and available discount being thrown into trade in offer, they could be offering 9k for the trade in.
The interest rate would be my concern.
Are they changing the interest rate when offering the diesel scrappage?

KFed

Can you give the figures on the bmw new v 3yo deal?

Makes sense a6 run out model having free extras thrown in to clear out the old stock. The g30 is a brand new model though, not sure why theyd be throwing in any free or heavily discounted extras?

Was looking at a dublin bmw dealer stock list. The asking on nearly new f10's (162) seems very strong. Low 40k asking for 162 m sport 520d.

In practice, are they discounting much off the asking on f10's? Havent pulled examples but woukd imagine for an f10 at least, if you can sell your own, uk import is the way to go financially by a material distance.

carsfan2

I know the Audi a6 is coming with a lot of extras at the moment but that is because it is old design and a new model will be released in 2018.
Are you saying the dealers are offering you three times what your older car is actually worth as trade in to get you to sign up for pcp on a new car?

copacetic

carsfan2 wrote: »

Please share what deals you have been offered on 181 pcp on Audi and Bmw.
I haven’t managed to do well.

I think the big difference to you guys is the trade in value, they are offering double to almost triple what they will offer against a 3 year old car. (Which is roughly auction price)

However this is on a nearly 10year old big engine car and I concentrated on audi

The other big difference on the brand new cars is the discount or else the included packs for low cost. So I estimate between the two you are getting a 15k to 18k discount on a 70k spec car.

These good deals would be why a 2-3 year old trade in value would be decimated I guess.

I’ve been agonising over it over night and came close to justifying it, but the offers of only auction value against a 3 year old car have made me see sense. They are charging 6-10k more than a landed UK 3 year old car.

Basically a pcp on a 3 year old is very low payments but at the end of it might still owe 15k. Importing with a loan is only slightly dearer a month and no outstanding cost in 3 year. More hassle but a no brainer (putting current car to auction)

carsfan2

Please share what deals you have been offered on 181 pcp on Audi and Bmw.
I haven’t managed to do well.

mickdw

Well if you are prepared to back your own hunch re diesel being out of vogue in 3 years, the petrol car could be the winner. The lower gfv while causing higher payments now could mean you do well at the end if petrol is in favour at that stage.
If you plan on buying out the car at the end, the petrol car will cost you less - that is a certainty.
I don't know what kind of deals you are getting but I've not seen any great offers from bmw or audi. I know they are offering a trade in for older diesels etc but most seem to up the interest rate when availing of such deals.

copacetic

Is there any real options for a newish car except import or pcp?

I’m looking to change at the moment from a high spec 9 year old car and am being offered frankly incredible deals on high spec 181 Audi’s and Bmw. Massively inflated trade in values, loads of extra packs giving 10k or so of options and reasonable pcp deals.

On 3 year old cars, trade in is less than 50% but pcp is very affordable. Lose out on all the extra goodies though. However cars are about 20% over priced relative to imports (and some of them are imports!)

Most sensible thing seems to be selling car privately or at auction and going to uk, however the new car deals are very tempting. Am I missing something?

Interesting aside, I’m open to Petrol as diesel I believe will be out of vogue in 3 years. However the pcp deals are not a runner on petrol, same spec is roughly 2-3k cheaper in petrol. Gmfv is way down though so payments shoot up.