Hotblack Desiato wrote: » If the Dail is dissolved then the Dail committees, as well as any pending bills, evaporate into nothing. This would be the stupidest reason to have an election ever, and I'm old enough to remember the two elections in 1982 :rolleyes:
Loafing Oaf wrote: » But they aren’t going to start the committees work from scratch again, invite the same experts back to present the same evidence. Are they?
aloyisious wrote: » It's possible that at some time in the future the DUP might change its stance on abortion. There was a post on F/B two days ago about a news story on a new DUP elected member making a Pro same-sex marriage statement, seems he saw no problem with it. Unfortunately I can't find the story or link.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » I think serious liberalisation of the law in NI may require a period of direct rule under a Labour government led by Corbyn or one of his acolytes.
aloyisious wrote: » The debate continues on various fronts regardless of the quiet. Friday's Irish Examiner reported that the Oireachtas Abortion Committee will complete a "draft" report on it's findings by Dec 15 before releasing the final document to the Dail on 20 Dec. The CIE outdoor advertising dept has decided it will not take any advertising requests from either side of the debate due to threats made against it's staff by people who didn't like the ad from the Fathers4Life Group "A Father's Not For A Day" and an advertisement about the last Pro-Choice rally. The ad's ban covers CIE buses, property and outdoor and indoor ad signboards. Meantime the Pro-Life campaign had their national conference in the RDS on Sunday... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/anti-abortion-advocates-at-rds-never-right-to-take-human-life-1.3314387
aloyisious wrote: » The CIE outdoor advertising dept has decided it will not take any advertising requests from either side of the debate due to threats made against it's staff by people who didn't like the ad from the Fathers4Life Group "A Father's Not For A Day" and an advertisement about the last Pro-Choice rally. The ad's ban covers CIE buses, property and outdoor and indoor ad signboards.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Presumably there'll still be godbothering ads in Irish Rail stations though
aloyisious wrote: » What's printed below is online in The Times.CO.UK. I copied it from a F/B page covering the abortion issue as I don't have full access to it's page, not being a paid-up subscriber to the Times. I have read the following sentence and understand the senator to mean "pro-women as Pro-choice of women". However it might be that I and the Times misunderstood the Senator words. @ Admin, pls pardon my extended reposting of the long newspaper article contrary to site rules. a FF Senator, Ned O'Sullivan, has said he has changed his mind on abortion and is prepared to vote for a new “pro-women” law. Ned O’Sullivan said the “honour” of being a member of the Oireachtas committee considering the Eighth Amendment gave him access to information he did not have before. Mr O’Sullivan told The Times that he would support a law that puts a woman and her health first. It has emerged that most of the committee will support decriminalising abortion, removing a possible 14-year prison sentence for women and doctors who perform illegal terminations. The 21 senators and TDs on the committee will next week vote on whether the Eighth Amendment should be repealed and what kind of legislation would replace it. The committee will hold its penultimate meeting today. Mr O’Sullivan, who has previously described himself as “pro-life”, said that he had studied the evidence presented to the committee over the past three months very closely. “Thanks to the honour of being a member of the committee, I have had access to information that I did not have before,” Mr O’Sullivan said. “I am now coming at it from the perspective of being pro-women. I have had a gradual realisation that abortion is a matter for a woman’s health and wellbeing.” Mr O’Sullivan, who has been a senator since 2007, said he would decide what abortion law he would support at next week’s meeting, but that it was likely to be “centrist, if a little bit liberal”. The committee will publish a report on December 20 recommending to the Oireachtas what changes to Ireland’s anti-abortion laws, if any, should be made. Mr O’Sullivan said it was incumbent on members of the Dáil to read over the committee’s evidence and inform themselves on the issue. He said he took “grave exception” to claims that the committee was biased. “I have gone through a process of change . . . and while some people might have very strong views one way or the other, some of us have changed our minds,” Mr O’Sullivan said. The senator said he had consulted with friends and family on his position before next week’s vote. At least 11 members of the committee have said that they are prepared to vote in favour of decriminalising abortion. Several TDs and senators have cited medical evidence from the National Maternity Hospital, the Rotunda, the Institute of Obstetrics and Gynaecology and the World Health Organisation as their reason for supporting removing harsh criminal sanctions for those caught accessing an illegal abortion in Ireland. The move, if supported by the Oireachtas, would mean that access to abortion is likely to still be restricted under time limits and circumstances but it would be regulated as a health issue rather than a criminal justice one. It would remove the threat of prosecution for any women who are caught taking illegal abortion pills bought online. Jonathan O’Brien, the Sinn Féin TD, said that all three members of his party sitting on the committee would support decriminalisation. Mr O’Brien, who had said he was “pro-life”, said he also changed his mind over the course of the committee’s work. Several TDs expressed concern that the committee’s recommendations for reform might not pass the Dáil as Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have given their TDs a free vote. “It keeps me awake at night,” one TD said. “I think that a lot of members of the committee support free access to abortion up to 12 weeks. They won’t recommend that because everyone’s conscious that this report has to make it through the Dáil, or else there’s no referendum.” There are similar fears within Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and Fine Gael, because no party wants to be seen as the reason a referendum does not go ahead.
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aloyisious wrote: » The Children's Minister, Katherine Zappone, says abortion without restriction should be available up to the 12th week of a pregnancy.
recedite wrote: » It seems very specific, I wonder if this is a kite flying exercise for govt.policy and a possible referendum wording? The wording would have to be very short, but it could go something along the lines of "no restrictions for abortion up to 12 weeks, but the govt. may legislate for restrictions after that in recognition of right to life of the unborn". Would probably be winnable as a referendum.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » She's saying no replacement article in the constitution. Edit: A majority of committee members also favour this.
aloyisious wrote: » Going on the basis that a majority of the committee would be minded to delete the 8th, and knowing the way things are sorted out by the politicians and legal wordsmiths here, I can see the voter being given A, B or C options: Amend, Keep Intact or Delete the 8th.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » As far as I know, referendums under the Irish constitution can only ask yes/no questions.
PopePalpatine wrote: » 62% (+/-2.8%) support repealing/replacing the 8th Amendment, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll. 13% are undecided, and there's increased support amongst young voters, urban voters and middle/upper-class voters.
