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I bet you didnt know that

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As people here work in various jobs / professions they might know things from work or study no one here knows yet. this is what this topic is about.

what do you know that we have never heard of?

Eg: you don't need to be great at maths to be an architect

this is obvious to me but everyone says to me "i wanted to be an architect but i was bad at math,i can barely add"

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Professor Moriarty

fortwilliam wrote: »

"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo." is a grammatically correct sentence in American English

The sentence is unpunctuated and uses three different readings of the word "buffalo". In order of their first use, these are:

a. the city of Buffalo, New York, United States, which is used as a noun adjunct in the sentence and is followed by the animal;
n. the noun buffalo (American bison), an animal, in the plural (equivalent to "buffaloes" or "buffalos"), in order to avoid articles.
v. the verb "buffalo" meaning to outwit, confuse, deceive, intimidate, or baffle.
The sentence is syntactically ambiguous; however, one possible parse (marking each "buffalo" with its part of speech as shown above) would be as follows:

Buffaloa buffalon Buffaloa buffalon buffalov buffalov Buffaloa buffalon.
When grouped syntactically, this is equivalent to: [(Buffalonian bison) (Buffalonian bison intimidate)] intimidate (Buffalonian bison).

The sentence uses a restrictive clause, so there are no commas, nor is there the word "which," as in, "Buffalo buffalo, which Buffalo buffalo buffalo, buffalo Buffalo buffalo." This clause is also a reduced relative clause, so the word that, which could appear between the second and third words of the sentence, is omitted.

An expanded form of the sentence which preserves the original word order is: "Buffalo bison, that other Buffalo bison bully, also bully Buffalo bison."

Thus, the parsed sentence reads as a claim that bison who are intimidated or bullied by bison are themselves intimidating or bullying bison (at least in the city of Buffalo – implicitly, Buffalo, New York):

Buffalo buffalo (the animals called "buffalo" from the city of Buffalo) [that] Buffalo buffalo buffalo (that the animals from the city bully) buffalo Buffalo buffalo (are bullying these animals from that city).
[Those] buffalo(es) from Buffalo [that are intimidated by] buffalo(es) from Buffalo intimidate buffalo(es) from Buffalo.
Bison from Buffalo, New York, who are intimidated by other bison in their community, also happen to intimidate other bison in their community.
The buffalo from Buffalo who are buffaloed by buffalo from Buffalo, buffalo (verb) other buffalo from Buffalo.
Buffalo buffalo (main clause subject) [that] Buffalo buffalo (subordinate clause subject) buffalo (subordinate clause verb) buffalo (main clause verb) Buffalo buffalo (main clause direct object).
[Buffalo from Buffalo] that [buffalo from Buffalo] buffalo, also buffalo [buffalo from Buffalo].

My head hurts.

fortwilliam

"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo." is a grammatically correct sentence in American English

The sentence is unpunctuated and uses three different readings of the word "buffalo". In order of their first use, these are:

a. the city of Buffalo, New York, United States, which is used as a noun adjunct in the sentence and is followed by the animal;
n. the noun buffalo (American bison), an animal, in the plural (equivalent to "buffaloes" or "buffalos"), in order to avoid articles.
v. the verb "buffalo" meaning to outwit, confuse, deceive, intimidate, or baffle.
The sentence is syntactically ambiguous; however, one possible parse (marking each "buffalo" with its part of speech as shown above) would be as follows:

Buffaloa buffalon Buffaloa buffalon buffalov buffalov Buffaloa buffalon.
When grouped syntactically, this is equivalent to: [(Buffalonian bison) (Buffalonian bison intimidate)] intimidate (Buffalonian bison).

The sentence uses a restrictive clause, so there are no commas, nor is there the word "which," as in, "Buffalo buffalo, which Buffalo buffalo buffalo, buffalo Buffalo buffalo." This clause is also a reduced relative clause, so the word that, which could appear between the second and third words of the sentence, is omitted.

An expanded form of the sentence which preserves the original word order is: "Buffalo bison, that other Buffalo bison bully, also bully Buffalo bison."

Thus, the parsed sentence reads as a claim that bison who are intimidated or bullied by bison are themselves intimidating or bullying bison (at least in the city of Buffalo – implicitly, Buffalo, New York):

Buffalo buffalo (the animals called "buffalo" from the city of Buffalo) [that] Buffalo buffalo buffalo (that the animals from the city bully) buffalo Buffalo buffalo (are bullying these animals from that city).
[Those] buffalo(es) from Buffalo [that are intimidated by] buffalo(es) from Buffalo intimidate buffalo(es) from Buffalo.
Bison from Buffalo, New York, who are intimidated by other bison in their community, also happen to intimidate other bison in their community.
The buffalo from Buffalo who are buffaloed by buffalo from Buffalo, buffalo (verb) other buffalo from Buffalo.
Buffalo buffalo (main clause subject) [that] Buffalo buffalo (subordinate clause subject) buffalo (subordinate clause verb) buffalo (main clause verb) Buffalo buffalo (main clause direct object).
[Buffalo from Buffalo] that [buffalo from Buffalo] buffalo, also buffalo [buffalo from Buffalo].

sbsquarepants

Are you a physicist Fourier?

Fourier

Inside a proton the quarks are held together with a bond strong enough to pull a freight train. 99% of the weight of protons and neutrons comes from this bond not the weight of the quarks. Since protons and neutrons are responsible for over 99% of the weight of atoms, it's also where the majority of your weight comes from.

In addition the bond (which is roughly tube like) has complex "weather patterns" inside it that even a supercomputer can't model.

storker

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I could go on but this isn't really quite on the topic of the thread (that and nobody asked me!).

Good post all the same. Stephen King had some interesting things to say about Dracula in his non-fiction Danse Macabre. He picks up on the sexual theme, and regarding Harkers encounter in the castle with the female vampires, writes "...Harker seems disappointed when the Count breaks up this little tete-a-tete; presumably most of Stokers wide-eyed readers were too."

King recalls how he decided to jettison the sexual angle when he wrote Salem's Lot, reasoning that in an era of such sexual liberation, the sex angle just wouldn't cut it any more. Perhaps not the best decision he ever made, given that that Coppola put it front-and-centre in his movie version nearly twenty years later and it works pretty well. Then again, during the interim period we had AIDS...

sbsquarepants

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It's really a novel that you could spend years teasing out the interpretive possibilities. It resonates in so many contexts.

I like your students interpretation regarding time becoming less exact I have to say!

But I wonder how much of these kind of interpretations are actually intentional by the author and how many just happen to fit after the fact?

Realt Dearg Sec

Ipso wrote: »

Really, I thought the main theme of Dracula was Victorian sexual repression and Eastern European immigration.

I'm not sure how one would decide which thing is the MAIN theme, different readings identify different dimensions of the text. When I was teaching it we also discussed the tension in the novel between modernity (and science, technology, rationalism) and the archaic (the magical, the animalistic), van helsing being a clear representative of the former and Dracula in some ways the latter. That tension was an important part of Victorian society as it came to terms with Darwinism, industrialisation, etc and so on, and there was a kind of anxiety or fear of the premodern.

A student of mine noted that when Harker (or whatever name is!) goes to Transylvania first, the journey is punctuated by a gradual deterioration of the specificity of time. So leaving London you have exact departure times of trains and so on, to the minute, while as he approaches his destination the times of his transports become less exact, eventually being measured in days. The idea of needing to know the exact time is itself a product of the industrial agree, in particular the train, which connected massively disparate places and required the standardisation of time to an extent never before known (and the formalisation if time zones). The novel uses descent into an informal sense of time as a way of measuring his movement away from the rational and the civilised, and into the unknown, the archaic, which is linked in various ways with fear, and anxieties of the age about things outside of "civilisation", a kind of definition that was increasingly coming to help justify the empire (see the image of van helsing drawing a circle in the snow into which no evil can come).

So, there really are a lot of things going on in the novel, none of this even scratches the surface of the issues of sexual repression you're talking about (though it's probably related to that idea if keeping libidinous uncontrollable forces outside of rational society).

There's plenty to be said about the conflict between an emergent middle class, as represented by Harker and his wife, and a declining aristocracy that is threatened by the Ascension of such people. It's really a novel that you could spend years teasing out the interpretive possibilities. It resonates in so many contexts.

For example the Mexican writer Carlos Fuentes wrote a short novel, Vlad, depicting Dracula reemerging in present day Mexico City, where he is a surrogate for the drug cartels and the vampiric relationship they have with the country.

I could go on but this isn't really quite on the topic of the thread (that and nobody asked me!).

New Home

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

What did Eamonn O Cuiv call himself before the v was introduced to Irish?

Wild guess, but perhaps Ó Caoimh?

Ipso

Daingin.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

What did Eamonn O Cuiv call himself before the v was introduced to Irish?

Ipso

There is also the mythological/paranormal creature the Dobhar Cu (which resembles an otter) which means water hound, Dobhar is a word water (used in place names like Gweedore and Dover).
Can someone correct me is I'm wrong, but is the word Dobhar used in the context of a body of water whereas uisce is more for drinking water?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

The Irish term for an otter is 'madra uisce'- water dog. My grandparents in Mayo always call them water dogs.

Meanwhile, in Korean, the word 물개 (mulgae) also literally means water dog but refers to a seal.

mr chips

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

maudgonner wrote: »

I actually really like that one - it makes sense and isn't a phonetic translation

Not phonetic but you take it on your fón.

I'll get my coat.

Or your guthán. :P From "guth", a word for voice.

Tromaíocht is the word for bullying and is derived from the word "trom", meaning heavy. You don't want the heavies sent round ... Bulaí, on the other hand, akin to saying bravo! - bulaí fir is more or less good man. It may well be where the English phrase "bully for you" comes from.

There were no rats in Ireland till the Normans arrived, allegedly. So they were called "luchóg francach" - a French mouse. This later was shortened to "francach". So the word for rat and for French person is the same in Irish.

Each (pronounced "ach") is an old word for horse, probably derived from the Latin equus. So there's a nice symmetry in the way that Loch n-Eachach - Horse Lake - is called Lough Neagh.:D

A poetic one to finish up. When someone has died, a way to pass on that information is to say that they are "ar shlí na fírinne" - on the way of truth.

Right, I'll leave it there - don't want to hijack the thread!

Professor Moriarty

Ipso wrote: »

Wasn't the letter P "imported"?
I know the well known instance is the emergence of the name Patrick, but it pops up in a couple other places; a group known as the Menappi who were based in Leinster (there was a similar named group in Southern England who may have had a Belgic background) and the gaelic name for crab which is portan (and may have a non Indo European origin) and there was a group in Connacht known as the Partraighe.

I don't know, but if it was imported back then it would have been over two thousand years ago. Considering English, for example, wouldn't begin to be spoken for another 500 years, then 'p' surely deserves its Irish citizenship.

Ipso

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Bh? Mh? Really pathetic to import letters when they're not needed.

Wasn't the letter P "imported"?
I know the well known instance is the emergence of the name Patrick, but it pops up in a couple other places; a group known as the Menappi who were based in Leinster (there was a similar named group in Southern England who may have had a Belgic background) and the gaelic name for crab which is portan (and may have a non Indo European origin) and there was a group in Connacht known as the Partraighe.

Realt Dearg Sec

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

OED
Q.E.D.

The difference with the OED is that it is a dictionary, and dictionaries don't coin terms, they reflect usage. That's why people's irritation when they add terms like selfie, or the use of "literally" to mean "figuratively" is misguided. The dictionary isn't a set of prescriptive laws for correct usage, it is an ongoing, evolving record of historical and current usage, and so they have to include the "new" meaning of literally, if the dictionary is to be an accurate reflection of usage.

That's different to the Academie in France, who see coinage as their job, and pursue a deliberate, ideologically driven policy of coining terms that are dissimilar to the (usually English) terms they need to find French equivalents for.

Incidentally Hungary has a similar institute in the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, and like other languages there is a tendency to end up with two words for neologisms, one similar to English and the other a weird sounding alternate. Computer=komputer=sza'mi'to'ge'p

server down

What’s interesting to me is why the monks didn’t use the V in Latin script for what is now the V sound produced by Bh (then the b with the delens or dot over it). Was Latin not pronouncing the V at the time? And if V was W then why not use that?

Professor Moriarty

maudgonner wrote: »

I actually really like that one - it makes sense and isn't a phonetic translation

Not phonetic but you take it on your fón.

I'll get my coat.

maudgonner

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Languages move with the times. It's what happens when they're alive

English is going to have a huge impact on Irish . Even more so in future as we get newer words.

Féinphic was added lately for a selfie!

I actually really like that one - it makes sense and isn't a phonetic translation

Chancer3001

Languages move with the times. It's what happens when they're alive

English is going to have a huge impact on Irish . Even more so in future as we get newer words.

Féinphic was added lately for a selfie!

maudgonner

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Bh? Mh? Really pathetic to import letters when they're not needed.

Well in English 'van' is a contraction of 'caravan'*, which is translated as carabhán...

Chancer's right though in fairness, there are lots of 'V' words that have been around for ages. Those two in particular just grieve me because they're so needlessly ugly.

(*which some people probably didn't know, so hopefully I'm not dragging the thread off topic :pac:)

Professor Moriarty

Chancer3001 wrote: »

V has been used since vans became a mode of transport.

Van = veain

Bh? Mh? Really pathetic to import letters when they're not needed.

Chancer3001

V has been used since vans became a mode of transport.

Van = veain

Professor Moriarty

maudgonner wrote: »

It's not just the Caighdeán though. There is also the terminology database, tearma.ie.

They are (afaik) responsible for abominations such as svuít (suite) and tvuít (tweet). Apparently it's now acceptable to use letters that traditionally don't exist in the Irish language to produce an ugly approximation of an English word.

Wouldn't tuít and suít phonetically be the same as tweet and suite? Much as buí is bwee?

IvyTheTerrible

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Take for example the popular - alunir - the verb for landing on the Moon.

There's only six people left alive who can use the first person.
And they haven't been able to use the present tense since at least 1972.
And that only if they spoke French.

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/alunir
http://verbmaps.com/en/verb/fr/alunir

Ah but what about fiction!

maudgonner

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

An Caighdeán Oifigiúil (Official Standard) was established in 1958 and is updated by the translation department in the Dáil. While native speakers have their own dialect, the same form of Irish is taught all over the country. Similarly, Spain would need the equivalent standard if Catalan were to be taught throughout Spain.

It's not just the Caighdeán though. There is also the terminology database, tearma.ie.

This is the National Terminology Database for Irish, developed by Fiontar & Scoil na Gaeilge, DCU in collaboration with An Coiste Téarmaíochta, Foras na Gaeilge.

They are (afaik) responsible for abominations such as svuít (suite) and tvuít (tweet). Apparently it's now acceptable to use letters that traditionally don't exist in the Irish language to produce an ugly approximation of an English word.

Capt'n Midnight

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I guess there's an English equivalent who decide what gets added to the dictionary every year

OED
Q.E.D.

Capt'n Midnight

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Not so far-fetched.
The Academie in France is a bunch of old Parisian men (almost entirely) and they decide the new French words, often with little regard to how real people actually use them.

Take for example the popular - alunir - the verb for landing on the Moon.

There's only six people left alive who can use the first person.
And they haven't been able to use the present tense since at least 1972.
And that only if they spoke French.

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/alunir
http://verbmaps.com/en/verb/fr/alunir

Chancer3001

Well ya need a committee to decide what new technological terms are called officially.

In gaeltachts, they often just use the English word for new stuff.

Most of the "new" stiff to Ireland has stupid sounding and looking Irish words.

E.g. pizza is píotsa. Spaghetti is spaigití ...

Whereas we have our own "proper" words for foods that existed back when Irish was widely spoken.

The committee is needed for new vehicles , scientific terms , technological advances etc.

I guess there's an English equivalent who decide what gets added to the dictionary every year

Professor Moriarty

Fourier wrote: »

This might be naive, but I never really understood this type of committee, which is located in Dublin as far as I can tell. Isn't the word "decided" by the use of native speakers in the Gaeltacht? It'd be like a committee in Madrid deciding what Catalan words there are.

An Caighdeán Oifigiúil (Official Standard) was established in 1958 and is updated by the translation department in the Dáil. While native speakers have their own dialect, the same form of Irish is taught all over the country. Similarly, Spain would need the equivalent standard if Catalan were to be taught throughout Spain.