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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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Don Kiddick

molloyjh wrote: »

Nobody has said that. Absolutely nobody. Please just stop.

Leinster played exactly as Ireland do.

Continue

molloyjh

Padraig121 wrote: »

Exactly, we kicked it away and then when we had to attack we just couldn't do it to anywhere near the level Argentina could. They taught us a lesson in attacking play, a lesson we haven't learned from it seems!

No, we've just been the second best attacking side in the 2 6Ns since, we've been the side to pass and carry the ball most, we've kicked the ball less than our opponents more often than not, we've beaten the 2 best teams in the world, won most of our games in that time etc etc etc. But sure who cares about that because hoofball.... :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

Padraig121 wrote: »

Exactly, we kicked it away and then when we had to attack we just couldn't do it to anywhere near the level Argentina could. They taught us a lesson in attacking play, a lesson we haven't learned from it seems!

We both kicked the ball. Argentina kicked it as well. Because that's what rugby teams do. New Zealand kicked the ball a similar number of times on Saturday.

[Deleted User]

Padraig121 wrote: »

Well that's your opinion, mine is that I think it will be exposed against the top teams at the world cup.

We've played all the top teams since the RWC and beaten all of them.

irelandrover

The last page or two of this thread has reminded me of this comic.

molloyjh

Interested Observer wrote: »

We've played all the top teams since the RWC and beaten all of them.

Padraig121

molloyjh wrote: »

Um, I am?

I've cited clear examples of similar moves used at Leinster and Ireland. I've quoted stats relating to the Argentina game. I've given solid examples of things that I'm talking about such as the Ross/Best shooter example.....

This is categorically incorrect. Go to the 6 Nations homepage (here). At the bottom is a set of stats from the last 6Ns. Here's 2 of them for you:

Most carries: Ireland (844)
Most passes: Ireland (1,094)

Now, if our main tactic is to kick the ball, how exactly do we do that and carry it more than anyone else and pass it more than anyone else?

9 of Ireland's 14 tries came against Italy. Stats can come misleading.

Podge_irl

Argentina didn't do anything remotely fancy in that quarter final. Our defence was incredibly narrow and relied on slowing ball down in midfield. Basically every single one of our most important players for slowing down ball or killing moves in midfield was injured and Argentina simply ran around us. They weren't playing some kind of kung fu, mystical rugby. They took us on the outside repeatedly and effectively.

Ireland don't defend like that anymore

molloyjh

Padraig121 wrote: »

9 of Ireland's 14 tries came against Italy. Stats can come misleading.

You're aware that everybody plays Italy in the 6Ns except for Italy, right?

irishbucsfan

Padraig121 wrote: »

Well that's your opinion, mine is that I think it will be exposed against the top teams at the world cup.

Well you keep calling box kicks 'garryowens' so I think I'm just happy taking your opinion under advisement for now.

[Deleted User]

thomond2006 wrote:

quotes

I think Thomond has a point lads.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

Argentina didn't do anything remotely fancy in that quarter final. Our defence was incredibly narrow and relied on slowing ball down in midfield. Basically every single one of our most important players for slowing down ball or killing moves in midfield was injured and Argentina simply ran around us. They weren't playing some kind of kung fu, mystical rugby. They took us on the outside repeatedly and effectively.

Ireland don't defend like that anymore

We didn't really defend like that then either. We usually were effective at either slowing down ball or getting off the line quickly. We failed at both pretty magnificently in the opening 10 minutes.

Padraig121

Podge_irl wrote: »

In the last 6N the Wales game was the only match where Ireland's kicking percentage was greater than their opponent's.

And we lost to Wales! These kicking statistics are for all types of kicks. Clearances, touch finders etc. The stat we need to see is the number of garryowens kicked by Ireland in comparison to other teams but especially southern hemisphere teams!

Padraig121

molloyjh wrote: »

Nobody has said that. Absolutely nobody. Please just stop.

Yes they have.

Padraig121

mfceiling wrote: »

Lads enough of the facts.

You'll never beat opinion with facts.

Argentina 43 Ireland 20. Is that not a fact?

Padraig121

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We both kicked the ball. Argentina kicked it as well. Because that's what rugby teams do. New Zealand kicked the ball a similar number of times on Saturday.

Garryowen.

Don Kiddick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think Thomond has a point lads.

Don't stop them now ...we have another 2 hours of this at least !

Padraig121

Interested Observer wrote: »

We've played all the top teams since the RWC and beaten all of them.

Most at home!

Padraig121

molloyjh wrote: »

You're aware that everybody plays Italy in the 6Ns except for Italy, right?

Yeah and we had a better day than anyone which obscure the stats. And stats become irrelevant when playing a top team in the world cup quarter finals!

Rigor Mortis

Padraig121 wrote: »

Most at home!

Yes and until relatively recently we would have lost to most of them.

There has been a gradual rise in standards in Irish rugby which seems to be easily forgotten around here.

This Irish team can travel anywhere in the world, possibly not auckland, with a strong expectation of winning

irishfan9

Padraig121 wrote: »

Argentina 43 Ireland 20. Is that not a fact?

whats your point? everyone knows we lost to argentina..

Padraig121

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well you keep calling box kicks 'garryowens' so I think I'm just happy taking your opinion under advisement for now.

People don't seem to like me referring to it as hoofball but I'll call it that if you want?

prawnsambo

Padraig121 wrote: »

And we lost to Wales! These kicking statistics are for all types of kicks. Clearances, touch finders etc. The stat we need to see is the number of garryowens kicked by Ireland in comparison to other teams but especially southern hemisphere teams!

I'm a bit confused by this. What exactly is wrong with kicking the ball? It's part of the game. If you can do it well, it puts the opposition under pressure and pushes them back up the pitch.

If I'm remembering correctly, we kicked more than the All Blacks in Chicago and won that match by a significant margin. When they beat us in Dublin, they kicked more than us. And then we beat Australia and kicked more than they did.

Clearly we need more kicking. :rolleyes:

Padraig121

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Yes and until relatively recently we would have lost to most of them.

There has been a gradual rise in standards in Irish rugby which seems to be easily forgotten around here.

This Irish team can travel anywhere in the world, possibly not auckland, with a strong expectation of winning

We are a good team, I'm talking about becoming the best. We can't with the tactics currently employed in my opinion!

Don Kiddick

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. What exactly is wrong with kicking the ball? It's part of the game. If you can do it well, it puts the opposition under pressure and pushes them back up the pitch.

If I'm remembering correctly, we kicked more than the All Blacks in Chicago and won that match by a significant margin. When they beat us in Dublin, they kicked more than us. And then we beat Australia and kicked more than they did.

Clearly we need more kicking. :rolleyes:

There's definitely a few on here who need a good kicking!

Padraig121

irishfan9 wrote: »

whats your point? everyone knows we lost to argentina..

Lost because our game plan was shown to be ineffective against an attacking southern hemisphere team.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

We didn't really defend like that then either. We usually were effective at either slowing down ball or getting off the line quickly. We failed at both pretty magnificently in the opening 10 minutes.

I do think we relied a lot of closing teams down in midfield - which was sensible to a degree as we were actually very, very good at it. Payne and Sexton in midfield was pretty formidable defensively. Without them our narrowness was exposed. But yeah, it was just a bad game defensively.

arsebiscuits1

Lads for Jaysus sake.

I leave for an hour and come back to 4 pages on nonsense

[Deleted User]

Padraig121 wrote: »

People don't seem to like me referring to it as hoofball but I'll call it that if you want?

Ok. Hopefully this will be clear:

There are people who, amongst other things, count the number of kicks a given team makes in an international rugby game.
You can find these stats on various websites.
These stats do not back up any sort of 'hoofball' argument, you're making it up.

Please let me know if anything needs clarification.

Padraig121

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. What exactly is wrong with kicking the ball? It's part of the game. If you can do it well, it puts the opposition under pressure and pushes them back up the pitch.

If I'm remembering correctly, we kicked more than the All Blacks in Chicago and won that match by a significant margin. When they beat us in Dublin, they kicked more than us. And then we beat Australia and kicked more than they did.

Clearly we need more kicking. :rolleyes:

People are mixing up all types of kicking that happens in a match with the hoofball I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that these tactics won't work in the world cup. Others think differently so we'll just have to wait and see.