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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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aloooof

connachta wrote: »

Once. And it wasn't in RWC vs Wales and Argentina (expensive teams who counter-attack)

Wales 2011 were by no means an expansive team. Just look at their midfield.

stephen_n

Padraig121 wrote: »

Leinsters main tactic was not the garryowen under Schmidt. Ireland's main game plan is the garryowen. This is undeniable.

No it's not, there I denied it. Since you don't require facts to back up your points, neither do I, therefore that's the end of the discussion.

Can't find the stats but they were published on here last year, Ireland kicked less that England, Scotland or Wales. Someone might find them.

This is from an article in the Irish Times on March 9th

"In their three matches to date, wins over Italy and France following an opening weekend defeat to Scotland, the Irish teams has scored more tries (13), made the most carries (532), more clean breaks (33), the most passes (694), won the most rucks (414), most metres gained (1,559), defenders beaten (84) and won more lineouts (42) than any other participants."

Now if we are kicking the ball away all the time, how did we manage that?

Padraig121

prawnsambo wrote: »

It was succesful against NZ. That's a direct contradiction of what you're saying.

No it's not. The world cup is very different to friendly matches!

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

Padraig121 wrote: »

Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.

It was succesful against NZ. That's a direct contradiction of what you're saying.

Once. And it wasn't in RWC vs Wales and Argentina (expensive teams who counter-attack)

Clegg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's gas, but its funnier the more you think about it. His coaches at the time he came through were Michael Cheika for Leinster and Declan Kidney for Ireland (techncially Michael Bradley gave him his Irish debut).

Can you imagine Cheiks or Kidney wrapped up at home in their blankets on the coach being abused online and then selecting Rob Kearney because they were being forced to by the online brigade. And then the severe amounts of fear causing them to call up Ian McGeechan to make sure Kearney was included in the Lions squad.

Kearney in 06/07 was one of the most exciting young prospects around. Himself and Fitz were the Ringrose/Larmour of their generation. There was a massive buzz of expectation around him. Was a great stepper and had a burst of acceleration. Throwing him into the side at a young age was the right idea. And he kept developing into an all round great player. Lest we forget he was voted European Player of the Year in 2012. He's more solid than exciting these days though.

Padraig121

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Have you got any statistics to prove that we do it more? Or are you just eyeballing this?

Also, if we do it more, do you have anything that proves it's to our detriment?

I'm going by what I see yes but if anyone has stats to say we don't I'd be very surprised. Northern hemisphere in general use the garryowen too much, it's not only us but we're aiming to be the best!

prawnsambo

Padraig121 wrote: »

Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.

It was succesful against NZ. That's a direct contradiction of what you're saying.

irishbucsfan

Padraig121 wrote: »

Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.

Have you got any statistics to prove that we do it more? Or are you just eyeballing this?

Also, if we do it more, do you have anything that proves it's to our detriment?

Padraig121

Interested Observer wrote: »

Ok so we've established that Ireland kick about the same number of times as everyone else.

Do you think we clear the ball fewer times than everyone else?

Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.

[Deleted User]

Padraig121 wrote: »

All kicks are not what I'm talking about. I'm hardly saying Ireland should never clear the ball!

Ok so we've established that Ireland kick about the same number of times as everyone else.

Do you think we clear the ball fewer times than everyone else?

Burkie1203

Padraig121 wrote: »

Look, people are allowed to have a different opinion than you. It's clear that we play a game plan where Murray or Sexton kick it as high as they can and we compete for it in the air. This happens often, it is not our only attacking option but it is the main one. I do not think this will work in the world cup 2019. I think the better teams will shut us down with ease and open us up with more intelligent attacking play. Others disagree with me. We'll just have to wait and see!

But in the last two 6n 4 teams kicked more then us.

Also in the two HC Leinster won with Joe, they kicked 34 times in total in the two finals. The opposition for those two finals kicked the ball 34 times. Leinster scored 75 points and conceded 36.

prawnsambo

Padraig121 wrote: »

People are mixing up all types of kicking that happens in a match with the hoofball I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that these tactics won't work in the world cup. Others think differently so we'll just have to wait and see.

Those statistics are for kicks from hand. What do you think they are?

Rigor Mortis

Padraig121 wrote: »

We are a good team, I'm talking about becoming the best. We can't with the tactics currently employed in my opinion!

There is one team in the world better than us currently.

Becoming better than NZ in any sustainable way will require a root and branch change in how children are introduced to and coached rugby. It wont be solved at national team level.

Padraig121

Look, people are allowed to have a different opinion than you. It's clear that we play a game plan where Murray or Sexton kick it as high as they can and we compete for it in the air. This happens often, it is not our only attacking option but it is the main one. I do not think this will work in the world cup 2019. I think the better teams will shut us down with ease and open us up with more intelligent attacking play. Others disagree with me. We'll just have to wait and see!

sydthebeat

phog wrote: »

It may have been asked/answered already, apologies if it was but was CJ the first "project" player to captain Ireland?

probably...

Dion O Cuinneagain captained ireland back in 95, though he qualified through his dad.

Padraig121

Interested Observer wrote: »

Ok. Hopefully this will be clear:

There are people who, amongst other things, count the number of kicks a given team makes in an international rugby game.
You can find these stats on various websites.
These stats do not back up any sort of 'hoofball' argument, you're making it up.

Please let me know if anything needs clarification.

All kicks are not what I'm talking about. I'm hardly saying Ireland should never clear the ball!

Granny15

Mod: Utter rubbish and unfounded allegations about a person's mental health removed.

Padraig121

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. What exactly is wrong with kicking the ball? It's part of the game. If you can do it well, it puts the opposition under pressure and pushes them back up the pitch.

If I'm remembering correctly, we kicked more than the All Blacks in Chicago and won that match by a significant margin. When they beat us in Dublin, they kicked more than us. And then we beat Australia and kicked more than they did.

Clearly we need more kicking. :rolleyes:

People are mixing up all types of kicking that happens in a match with the hoofball I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that these tactics won't work in the world cup. Others think differently so we'll just have to wait and see.

[Deleted User]

Padraig121 wrote: »

People don't seem to like me referring to it as hoofball but I'll call it that if you want?

Ok. Hopefully this will be clear:

There are people who, amongst other things, count the number of kicks a given team makes in an international rugby game.
You can find these stats on various websites.
These stats do not back up any sort of 'hoofball' argument, you're making it up.

Please let me know if anything needs clarification.

arsebiscuits1

Lads for Jaysus sake.

I leave for an hour and come back to 4 pages on nonsense

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

We didn't really defend like that then either. We usually were effective at either slowing down ball or getting off the line quickly. We failed at both pretty magnificently in the opening 10 minutes.

I do think we relied a lot of closing teams down in midfield - which was sensible to a degree as we were actually very, very good at it. Payne and Sexton in midfield was pretty formidable defensively. Without them our narrowness was exposed. But yeah, it was just a bad game defensively.

Padraig121

irishfan9 wrote: »

whats your point? everyone knows we lost to argentina..

Lost because our game plan was shown to be ineffective against an attacking southern hemisphere team.

Don Kiddick

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. What exactly is wrong with kicking the ball? It's part of the game. If you can do it well, it puts the opposition under pressure and pushes them back up the pitch.

If I'm remembering correctly, we kicked more than the All Blacks in Chicago and won that match by a significant margin. When they beat us in Dublin, they kicked more than us. And then we beat Australia and kicked more than they did.

Clearly we need more kicking. :rolleyes:

There's definitely a few on here who need a good kicking!

Padraig121

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Yes and until relatively recently we would have lost to most of them.

There has been a gradual rise in standards in Irish rugby which seems to be easily forgotten around here.

This Irish team can travel anywhere in the world, possibly not auckland, with a strong expectation of winning

We are a good team, I'm talking about becoming the best. We can't with the tactics currently employed in my opinion!

prawnsambo

Padraig121 wrote: »

And we lost to Wales! These kicking statistics are for all types of kicks. Clearances, touch finders etc. The stat we need to see is the number of garryowens kicked by Ireland in comparison to other teams but especially southern hemisphere teams!

I'm a bit confused by this. What exactly is wrong with kicking the ball? It's part of the game. If you can do it well, it puts the opposition under pressure and pushes them back up the pitch.

If I'm remembering correctly, we kicked more than the All Blacks in Chicago and won that match by a significant margin. When they beat us in Dublin, they kicked more than us. And then we beat Australia and kicked more than they did.

Clearly we need more kicking. :rolleyes:

Padraig121

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well you keep calling box kicks 'garryowens' so I think I'm just happy taking your opinion under advisement for now.

People don't seem to like me referring to it as hoofball but I'll call it that if you want?

irishfan9

Padraig121 wrote: »

Argentina 43 Ireland 20. Is that not a fact?

whats your point? everyone knows we lost to argentina..

Rigor Mortis

Padraig121 wrote: »

Most at home!

Yes and until relatively recently we would have lost to most of them.

There has been a gradual rise in standards in Irish rugby which seems to be easily forgotten around here.

This Irish team can travel anywhere in the world, possibly not auckland, with a strong expectation of winning

Padraig121

molloyjh wrote: »

You're aware that everybody plays Italy in the 6Ns except for Italy, right?

Yeah and we had a better day than anyone which obscure the stats. And stats become irrelevant when playing a top team in the world cup quarter finals!

Padraig121

Interested Observer wrote: »

We've played all the top teams since the RWC and beaten all of them.

Most at home!