MrPudding wrote: » Do you know what reforms to drink driving laws they want to prevent? MrP
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » What's funny is watching FF turn into an explicitly catholic reactionary party, even as Micheal Martin flaps his arms and denies that's what they are, it's what they are turning into and I doubt anyone currently under 50 i.e. got burned by the economic crisis, as opposed to the older generation who gained from it, will ever even consider voting FF. O'Cuiv said that the four pillars of Irish society are the Irish language, the GAA, the catholic church and FF. Everyone under 50 regards most of these as toxic, if not downright abusive and detrimental. I detest all four.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » The headline says 'rebellion' but IMO the link is closer to the mark with 'dissent' aka 'grumbling'.http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/11/20/news/sinn-fe-in-leadership-facing-potential-dissent-over-abortion-vote-1191546/ The only thing that would give SF leadership pause on this issue is the threat of a breakaway and I see no sign of that...
Francie Molloy said it was unfortunate that some people “keep pushing the boat out further”. The Mid Ulster MP said motion 144 was akin to “abortion on demand” because a woman only had to say she was depressed to qualify for a termination. He warned that many of his rural, socially conservative constituents – who are also Ms O’Neill’s constituents – would not welcome the policy shift.
Pherekydes wrote: » Interesting development, with the possibility of a new(!) pro-life party being formed, with a focus on the 8th, rural policies and drink driving reforms.http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tds-in-talks-to-form-new-pro-life-party-463071.html
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » It seems SF are chickening out of adopting an explicit pro-choice stance, but that's to be expected. I don't mind if it means another party is adopting a pro-choice stance by the back door, and it's not as if I'd ever vote for them anyway. What's funny is watching FF turn into an explicitly catholic reactionary party, even as Micheal Martin flaps his arms and denies that's what they are, it's what they are turning into and I doubt anyone currently under 50 i.e. got burned by the economic crisis, as opposed to the older generation who gained from it, will ever even consider voting FF. O'Cuiv said that the four pillars of Irish society are the Irish language, the GAA, the catholic church and FF. Everyone under 50 regards most of these as toxic, if not downright abusive and detrimental. I detest all four.
aloyisious wrote: » Watching the A/F now. Yeah, the Free Vote motion was defeated and the party position on abortion stands.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Growing speculation that the bould Peadar will be jumping ship to FF:https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/three-exsf-councillors-to-target-seat-of-local-party-td-36317708.html I suspect he may be aware his bid to secure a free vote on abortion is unlikely to succeed is using it to position himself for the mooted jump...
Gintonious wrote: » She is really detached from reality with this garbage. The person isn't a "father" in the sense of a family, they are a filthy scumbag rapist. She is off on another planet!
aloyisious wrote: » Ditto on interpretation of these two parts as well: However a number of delegates wish to see the party go further. Other motions up for debate propose basing party policy on the recommendations of the Citizens Assembly which advocated allowing abortions for the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy....... The Ard Fheis motions and the party’s position on abortion takes on a fresh importance as the Eighth Amendment Committee are due to conclude their work within the next few weeks. .
aloyisious wrote: » MSN news online..... Part of Katie Ascough's replies to interview by Marian Finucane earlier today..... When asked for her thoughts on abortion in cases of rape, she told RTE Radio 1: “(Rape) is one of the most abhorrent crimes towards women and I completely condemn it. In fact I think we need to look at having more serious sentences for rapists in Ireland. “But at the same time, I do not think that abortion is the answer to this. “The child should not have to bear the brunt of their father’s crime. The child should not be essentially sentenced to death for what their father has done.” Ms Ascough, whose father is on the board at the Iona Institute, said Irish women need more support during a crisis pregnancy but argued that legalising abortion would be importing “England’s problem”. She said her view on abortion is due to her mother having a misscarriage and she was able to hold her dead brother in her arms, looking at his physical appearance, it gave her the reason for her position on abortion. ......................................................................................................................................................... One of the reasons given by her in respect of her decision to change the wording in the handbook, on legal asvice, was that it put her at risk of a conviction and a conviction meant she would not be able to travel abroud. It's probable that by that she meant travel to the US as her mother is US by birth and she has family in Texas. Her statement about importing England's problem must be a reference to UK law and how she sees the law as a problem best left abroad, seeing as how abortion is not available here. The fact that such a position leaves irish women [twelve a day by her account in the interview] having to travel abroad for the abortions they want and actually need for medical reasons. BYW, Miss Ascough's surname is pronounced with the GH silent.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » According to this, the motion advocates abortion where a woman’s health is ‘at serious risk’, so perhaps not as sweeping in practice as I thought. Room for interpretation there...https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/11/15/sinn-fein-policy-decision-has-implications-for-abortion-referendum-process/
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Further to this:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-to-amend-its-stance-on-abortion-1.3287524 Is this de facto 'abortion on demand'? Re GA's declaration of his 'pro-choice' hand, I'm wondering is he doing this at the behest of the emerging Dublin leadership. Might be an easier sell to 'traditional republicans' if it was perceived to be coming from the boss man himself rather than Mary Lou et al...
aloyisious wrote: » ............. Edit: today's Indo reported that several SF Cumann in Meath West are supporting Peadar's position on the 8th.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Growing speculation that the bould Peadar will be jumping ship to FF:https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/three-exsf-councillors-to-target-seat-of-local-party-td-36317708.html I suspect he may be aware his bid to secure a free vote on abortion is unlikely to succeed is using it to position himself for the mooted jump... Tbh, if he is going to quit, he'd probably be better to do it after the Ard Fheis rather than spend months ruling it out and then doing it a la Stephen Donnelly
Odhinn wrote: » His position was never in alignment with the party afaik. Not saying that he isn't entitled to hold his principles, but if it was that important to him he really should have read up on it when he joined. The comedy was good after yer man stephen donnelly went, it has to be said.
Odhinn wrote: » He seems to have been unaware of the party position on the issue, for some reason, when he threw the head a while back.
aloyisious wrote: » I am not familiar with the party practice either. If those on the floor follow the accepted practice of following the party whip, regardless of those in minority positions, any motion meeting the existing or apparent party line should pass. R$e the below, Peadar's position will either be set in stone or maybe altered by then ..
Loafing Oaf wrote: » But does the imprimatur of the Ard Comhairle not mean this motion is virtually guaranteed to pass? Genuinely asking, not that familiar with SF's internal workings...
Odhinn wrote: » It's more reflective of changing attitudes in the party membership. Motions calling for "on demand" have previously been voted down at ardfheiseanna over the years.
