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Homelessness: The disgrace that is Varadkar and the Government

JupiterKid

When Leo Varadkar assumed office of Taoiseach he did the obligatory lap of honour, with the international media fawning over his sexuality and mixed ethnicity, making out the Ireland was now such a modern, progressive society. He was photographed comparing socks (WTF??) with Canadian premier Justin Trudeau.

But look at his record. As Minister for Health, he slashed the already paltry budget for mental health services, an utterly reprehensible act in my view. Irish mental health services are among the worst in the developed world and need more funding, not less. Look at the suicide rates amongst our young. Also, as a gay man myself I found it a bit disingenious that Varadkar chose to come out shortly before the same sex marriage referendum, which if you may not recall he originally opposed.

But then again, our public health system is in a mess generally as a brief stint in A&E in a major Dublin hospital showed me. Very unwell people left on trolleys in corridors for hours, overworked nurses and doctors and taking 11 hours to be seen by a doctor over a heart complaint.

Then there is Varadkar's statement on the housing crisis being over-exaggerated by charities and housing agencies. The pure gall of him to make such a flippant statement. Dublin has a serious housing emergency, a major social housing building programme would go a long way to solving that situation but no, the private market and the banking sector must prevail at all costs. I honestly can't see the situation changing one iota unless a general election takes place.

IMO Leo is a neo-liberal Thatcherite who talks the talk, but can't walk the walk. He has zero interest in the most vulnerable in Irish society. Sadly, I don't see many votes in mental health issues or housing issues, except to ensure those in the know and with connections ensure their over-inflated dwellings continue to rise in price.

It's a sad spectacle and IMO Leo is no supporter in social justice or equality, in any shape or form. The current minority FG govt are a lame duck. They seem to have no ability to tackle serious pressing social problems, particularly with housing and health. Where is the sense of vision? Where is the sense of doing things for the good of Irish society as a whole? I sure don't see it.

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A Little Pony

oscarBravo wrote: »

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Have you ever heard of supply and demand?

Yes. What's your point?

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well addressing this would make you a racist apparently...

No; just a xenophobe. Why do you believe that immigrants are less deserving of a place to live than non-immigrants?

Because they aren't born in the country. I prefer to put the people actually born in the country first. More people from outside coming in increases pressures on public services. It's not that complex to figure this out.

server down

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No-one is saying that. In your efforts to be as offended as possible you've just made that up. The point is: an increase in population creates a higher demand for a limited supply of housing.

No debate there.

Actually it probably makes housing policy impossible to forecast.

As for whether building social housing is better than rent supplement. Of course it is. State housing actually earns money over time defraying the initial capital costs, rent supplement increases over time.

Donal55

Nothing wrong with Leo and FG. Haven't they looked after the PS with their pensions.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/public-servants-escape-new-pension-rules-36313686.html

JupiterKid

I hold a PhD in both land use planning and housing policy and I lecture on the subject at third level. I'm also the author of a number of academic papers on the subject so I know a thing or two about housing markets.

Housing markets are very complex and dynamic and because they comprise of different tenures (owner occupied, private rented, social rented) policy that affects one tent mute can and will affect the other tenures. Yes, there is a core of homelessness that is comprised of those with addiction and mental health issues and these individuals need supports like hostel accommodation and sheltered living arrangements but sadly many opt to sleep rough. But they are not the homeless I was referring to in an earlier post. I'm talking about the 100,000+ on the housing waiting list, many on that list for a decade or more. Families and individuals in emergency hostel accommodation, living with friends and in hotels. Social housing is what they should be provided with but currently many are shunted into the private rented sector on rent allowance and the HAP schemes at significant cost to the exchequer. This has distorted the rented sector, reducing the supply of rented housing to young professionals who cannot find affordable accommodation. It's a very dysfunctional housing market, particularly in Dublin and frankly why people aren't marching en masse on the streets about it, I don't know.

Then you have the planning issues, which is the other side of the same coin. Ireland has a very inadequate land use planning system compared to other European countries and we tend to emulate the American style sprawl pattern, where people lucky enough to afford a house/home are forced to commute from 30, 40, 50 and more miles from Dublin, usually by car and thus putting massive pressure on our major radial routes into the city and especially the gridlocked M50. It's an utter mess. The really sad thing about this is that it all happened before - during the so-called "Celtic Tiger" era of greed 1998-2007 and we are repeating the exact same mistakes again.

Dublin and the other Irish cities need to build up - not very high rise but 10-15 storey blocks of apartments, many of which need to be large to accommodate families and have proper storage facilities. These should be linked to high capacity public transport links which are commonplace in other European cities. Basically the "compact city" model. I and my colleagues advocated this 15 years ago but it never happened. And don't get me started on the farce that is free for all one-off rural housing.

The current government, and indeed previous administrations have done absolutely nothing about properly addressing these issues. There was Part V of the Planning act which requires private developers to provide 20% social and affordable housing on their developments but that was dependent on the housing market and as we all know that went tits up in 2008. Local authorities sold off social housing sites to private developers during the years of greed.

Land policy also needs examination. The State should be able to purchase zoned residential land at or below market rates to curb speculation and hoarding and get on with a robust house building programme.

But the reality is that since the early 1990s social housing schemes have been replaced by privatising the low cost housing sector, the free market must come first and neo-liberal economic policies are largely to blame for this. And Varadkar is very much a neo-liberal accolyte of Thatcher so nothing will change on the housing front until the current shower in government is removed from power.

server down

^ what he said.

People in the private rental sector should be in favour of social housing even from the point of view of their own self interest. Most aren’t.

Wheeliebin30

Why do we go on as if homelessness is all Leos problems to sort out?

Every country in the world has homeless people.

If someone can solve it they will forever be remembered.

Sweden, Denmark etc the great Nordic countries people like to bleat on about have higher homeless numbers than ireland.

There is nothing wrong with his comments.

A Bit of perspective is needed once in a while.

James Brown

server down wrote: »

^ what he said.

People in the private rental sector should be in favour of social housing even from the point of view of their own self interest. Most aren’t.

It's the attitude Varadkar's base feeds into. A dislike for anyone not themselves. Short sighted greed and self importance. If you aren't getting by that's your own fault and why should I help? What's in it for me?
Spending tax payer money on the black hole that is emergency accommodation/family hubs and the like is a great example of cutting your nose to spite your face.

Wheeliebin30

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's the attitude Varadkar's base feeds into. A dislike for anyone not themselves. Short sighted greed and self importance. If you aren't getting by that's your own fault and why should I help? What's in it for me?
Spending tax payer money on the black hole that is emergency accommodation/family hubs and the like is a great example of cutting your nose to spite your face.

Stop.

Do you really think outside of making sure themselves and their families are ok people care
about much else?

Very naive to think so.

server down

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Stop.

Do you really think outside of making sure themselves and their families are ok people care
about much else?

Very naive to think so.

That’s projecting. Anyway social housing would be cheaper in the long run. Rent is dead money.

oscarBravo

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No-one is saying that. In your efforts to be as offended as possible you've just made that up. The point is: an increase in population creates a higher demand for a limited supply of housing.

So does children moving out of their family home as they grow up, but you're focusing on immigrants.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Because they aren't born in the country. I prefer to put the people actually born in the country first.

Thank you - at least you're honest about your xenophobia instead of getting huffy and indignant when you're called on it.

More people from outside coming in increases pressures on public services. It's not that complex to figure this out.

More people from outside coming in also increases the overall tax take. The idea that immigrants only bring problems is a symptom of one-dimensional thinking.

BrianBoru00

JupiterKid wrote: »

I hold a PhD in both land use planning and housing policy and I lecture on the subject at third level. I'm also the author of a number of academic papers on the subject so I know a thing or two about housing markets.

Housing markets are very complex and dynamic and because they comprise of different tenures (owner occupied, private rented, social rented) policy that affects one tent mute can and will affect the other tenures. Yes, there is a core of homelessness that is comprised of those with addiction and mental health issues and these individuals need supports like hostel accommodation and sheltered living arrangements but sadly many opt to sleep rough. But they are not the homeless I was referring to in an earlier post. I'm talking about the 100,000+ on the housing waiting list, many on that list for a decade or more. Families and individuals in emergency hostel accommodation, living with friends and in hotels. Social housing is what they should be provided with but currently many are shunted into the private rented sector on rent allowance and the HAP schemes at significant cost to the exchequer. This has distorted the rented sector, reducing the supply of rented housing to young professionals who cannot find affordable accommodation. It's a very dysfunctional housing market, particularly in Dublin and frankly why people aren't marching en masse on the streets about it, I don't know.

Then you have the planning issues, which is the other side of the same coin. Ireland has a very inadequate land use planning system compared to other European countries and we tend to emulate the American style sprawl pattern, where people lucky enough to afford a house/home are forced to commute from 30, 40, 50 and more miles from Dublin, usually by car and thus putting massive pressure on our major radial routes into the city and especially the gridlocked M50. It's an utter mess. The really sad thing about this is that it all happened before - during the so-called "Celtic Tiger" era of greed 1998-2007 and we are repeating the exact same mistakes again.

Dublin and the other Irish cities need to build up - not very high rise but 10-15 storey blocks of apartments, many of which need to be large to accommodate families and have proper storage facilities. These should be linked to high capacity public transport links which are commonplace in other European cities. Basically the "compact city" model. I and my colleagues advocated this 15 years ago but it never happened. And don't get me started on the farce that is free for all one-off rural housing.

The current government, and indeed previous administrations have done absolutely nothing about properly addressing these issues. There was Part V of the Planning act which requires private developers to provide 20% social and affordable housing on their developments but that was dependent on the housing market and as we all know that went tits up in 2008. Local authorities sold off social housing sites to private developers during the years of greed.

Land policy also needs examination. The State should be able to purchase zoned residential land at or below market rates to curb speculation and hoarding and get on with a robust house building programme.

But the reality is that since the early 1990s social housing schemes have been replaced by privatising the low cost housing sector, the free market must come first and neo-liberal economic policies are largely to blame for this. And Varadkar is very much a neo-liberal accolyte of Thatcher so nothing will change on the housing front until the current shower in government is removed from power.

its all well and good having qualifications but all that proves is you can prove theories and talk about the issue.

Doing is a different matter.

And I'm not saying that to insult you but the situation on the ground is a lot more difficult. I understand that your knowledge would be of huge benefit and given your qualifications could you maybe answer a query for me in isolation.
If you look at Irish Rail (notwithstanding current difficulties) . The "Maynooth line" extends next to Edgeworthstown, Longford, Dromod, Carrick-on-Shannon, Boyle, Ballymote, Collooney and Sligo town. Those towns and surrounding ones have a large amount of vacant properties.
Would it not make sense to add a train or couple of trains extra to service those routes and populate those vacant houses?

ThisRegard

JupiterKid wrote: »

I hold a PhD in both land use planning and housing policy and I lecture on the subject at third level. I'm also the author of a number of academic papers on the subject so I know a thing or two about housing markets.

Your opening post read as an ill informed and factually inaccurate rant, not from an analytical mind spent in years of research so it's not surprising people doubted you had knowledge in the area.

A Little Pony

oscarBravo wrote: »

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No-one is saying that. In your efforts to be as offended as possible you've just made that up. The point is: an increase in population creates a higher demand for a limited supply of housing.

So does children moving out of their family home as they grow up, but you're focusing on immigrants.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Because they aren't born in the country. I prefer to put the people actually born in the country first.

Thank you - at least you're honest about your xenophobia instead of getting huffy and indignant when you're called on it.

More people from outside coming in increases pressures on public services. It's not that complex to figure this out.

More people from outside coming in also increases the overall tax take. The idea that immigrants only bring problems is a symptom of one-dimensional thinking.

Of course they don't bring all negatives, but the pressures on public services go up because more people are in the country using such services, to run those services requires more money needed to be pumped into them and money doesn't just grow on trees.

If you have more people than you can house then homelessness will only rise, it's not going to fall.

emo72

So would fine Gael supporters not allow any criticism of fg housing minister and Leo? Nothing at all? I recall Simon Coveney stating that homelessness would be sorted within a year. That's about 2 years ago. Everyone that needed a place to stay would have one. No more rough sleeping. But he leaves that ministry and is absolved? Brilliant strategy.

You see, it's the never ending future deadlines that are always missed. They say they are working very hard and it takes time. They've been in power for years now. It's not working. They know it. So how do they handle it, by starting to get people used to it. Homelessness? So what? It's quite normal actually. Sure look at these "statistics", we are quite normal when compared to other countries. It's blatantly bull**** and they should be pulled up over it. It is a disgrace.

Wheeliebin30

server down wrote: »

That’s projecting. Anyway social housing would be cheaper in the long run. Rent is dead money.

No it's not.

Its a black hole that the tax payer has to subsidise forever.

Wheeliebin30

emo72 wrote: »

So would fine Gael supporters not allow any criticism of fg housing minister and Leo? Nothing at all? I recall Simon Coveney stating that homelessness would be sorted within a year. That's about 2 years ago. Everyone that needed a place to stay would have one. No more rough sleeping. But he leaves that ministry and is absolved? Brilliant strategy.

You see, it's the never ending future deadlines that are always missed. They say they are working very hard and it takes time. They've been in power for years now. It's not working. They know it. So how do they handle it, by starting to get people used to it. Homelessness? So what? It's quite normal actually. Sure look at these "statistics", we are quite normal when compared to other countries. It's blatantly bull**** and they should be pulled up over it. It is a disgrace.

What's your solution to a worldwide issue?

James Brown

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No it's not.

Its a black hole that the tax payer has to subsidise forever.

No it's not. If we invested in affordable and social housing, we'd have property to rent and sell. But it will ding the profits of the developers and landlords, so best con the public with stories about elsewhere having the problem and getting up early and that.

The simple fact that it's getting worse by the day, scientifically and logically proves the state, under Fine Gael is feeding the problem not tackling it. We'll run out of tax monies eventually, then I suppose we'll have all went mad, didn't get up early enough or some other s*ite.

Stheno

server down wrote: »

That’s projecting. Anyway social housing would be cheaper in the long run. Rent is dead money.

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/council-tenants-owe-65m-in-unpaid-rent-437052.html

Last year council's were owed 65 million in unpaid rent arrears.

If you could build social housing at an average of 250k countrywide that's 260 houses

emo72

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What's your solution to a worldwide issue?

Not a politician. But I think it's obvious. Build social housing like we did when we were smashed in the 20th century. But that's anathema to free market government. Sometimes the free market doesn't provide.

server down

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No it's not.

Its a black hole that the tax payer has to subsidise forever.

What is? Rent or social housing?

Imagine that we had social housing that was paid for (as we did) and tenants were paying rent. Would this cost more or less than subsidising rent?

To make it easier the answer is less. Ones an income the other is an cost.

By selling housing we turned a revenue stream into a cost.

JupiterKid

ThisRegard wrote: »

Your opening post read as an ill informed and factually inaccurate rant, not from an analytical mind spent in years of research so it's not surprising people doubted you had knowledge in the area.

Oh believe me, I hold the relevant qualifications. May I ask what yours are in the fields of politics and social policy?

I'm very frustrated and angry at the current government and Varadkar in particular. He's a fence sitter of the Bertie Ahern variety, a talker and does not espouse any sort of ideology for helping the most vulnerable - it's all about the market and neo-liberal economic ideology. Ideology that got this country and many others into the financial mess that took place in the 2007-2011 period.

And I would kindly request you not to pick apart my assertions. I am well capable of measured debate and yes, I perhaps made some factual inaccuracies in my initial post but picking on these comes across as rather petty.

Chips Lovell

It's dubious to assert immigrants increase pressure on state services since the evidence actually points the other way. For example, as Trinity professor Brian Lucey said immigrants tend to be net contributors:

Brian Lucey, professor of finance at Trinity College Dublin, said there has been no conclusive evidence to link inward migration to a general depression of wages in Ireland.

In fact, he said, there was a growing body of research which shows migrants tend to be net contributors to the economy and are often less likely to claim benefits.

Something similar was pointed out by economist Ronan Lyons a few years ago after the FG mayor of Limerick went off on a bit of an anti-immigrant tirade:

Lastly, the “new Irish” in total haven’t cost us a cent since they arrived, in net terms. In fact, they’ve made substantial net contributions to the Government finances, thereby easing the burden for Irish taxpayers. Looking purely at the employment/unemployment numbers, and assuming their earnings profile is relatively close to the average manufacturing wage (which is lower than the economy-wide average), these people are currently “costing” the Exchequer about €32m a month in unemployment benefits. Meanwhile, they’re bringing in, through PRSI and income tax, somewhere in the region €75m a month.

server down

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

It's dubious to assert immigrants increase pressure on state services since the evidence actually points the other way. For example, as Trinity professor Brian Lucey said immigrants tend to be net contributors:

Something similar was pointed out by economist Ronan Lyons a few years ago after the FG mayor of Limerick went off on a bit of an anti-immigrant tirade:

At the risk of apparently veering from left to right (personally I think free movement of labour is about as neoliberal as you can get) there’s quite a lot of externalities missing there. Like cost of housing etc.

johnnyskeleton

beefburrito wrote: »

I can see Leo now on his rainbow coloured rollerblades doing a twirl and showing off his Lion King socks....

Mod note:

Are you trying to get banned? Please read the charter this kind of post is not acceptable.

ThisRegard wrote: »

Your opening post read as an ill informed and factually inaccurate rant, not from an analytical mind spent in years of research so it's not surprising people doubted you had knowledge in the area.

Mod note:

Please be civil to other posters. Play the ball not the man.

James Brown

Stheno wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/council-tenants-owe-65m-in-unpaid-rent-437052.html

Last year council's were owed 65 million in unpaid rent arrears.

If you could build social housing at an average of 250k countrywide that's 260 houses

If people don't pay tax on time, is that an argument against having Revenue/collecting tax?
You are of course guaranteed no rental income from a family in emergency accommodation. Where the tax payer foots the complete bill. Hardly preferable regardless of how poor some councils are at collecting rents.

Varadkar's attitude is very telling. If the political leader of the country has that outlook, we shouldn't expect any positive or progressive fix at any point.

sdanseo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Because it's only brought up by people who seem to believe that immigrants are less deserving of a place to live than non-immigrants?

Even from the leftmost viewpoints, how is there any argument that this should not be the case.

An Irish Citizen (who has paid PRSI and/or is willing and able to work and contribute to society) should trump anyone else of any origin - British, American, African, Antarctican, whatever - for state benefits.

Then should come legal residents.

Last on the pecking order, dole scroungers.

Stheno

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If people don't pay tax on time, is that an argument against having Revenue/collecting tax?
You are of course guaranteed no rental income from a family in emergency accommodation. Where the tax payer foots the complete bill. Hardly preferable regardless of how poor some councils are at collecting .

I'd personally favour the UK system where the concept of making on self intentionally homeless removes any entitlement to housing.

You might find those arrears decreasing fast

blanch152

JupiterKid wrote: »

Oh believe me, I hold the relevant qualifications. May I ask what yours are in the fields of politics and social policy?

I'm very frustrated and angry at the current government and Varadkar in particular. He's a fence sitter of the Bertie Ahern variety, a talker and does not espouse any sort of ideology for helping the most vulnerable - it's all about the market and neo-liber economic ideology. Ideology that got this country and many others into the financial mess that took place in the 2007-2011 period.

And I would kindly request you not to pick apart my assertions. I am we'll capable of measured debate and yes, I perhaps made some factual inaccuracies in my initial post but picking on these comes across as rather petty.

I have 35 years working experience, most of it in the public sector, latterly in the private sector, with two masters and numerous other qualifications in public policy and related areas. I have worked with or for organisations in the central civil service, education, local government and state bodies. The only area I lack substantive experience is in the health sector.

I am not posting any of that to boast or to buttress my own opinions. Rather I am posting it to show that there are many people on here as qualified as you to speak on these issues and many of them may fundamentally disagree with you.

It is clear from your posts that you have approached these issues from a particular political viewpoint. No matter someone's qualifications, that detracts from the objectivity in which they approach issues.

The biggest issue with your approach is that you want to throw away the "neo-liberal economic ideology" to solve the problem of housing (it is now clear you are not talking about homelessness). It is very easy to come up with pat solutions if you situate them in an ideal world of your own creation. What is much more difficult and challenging is to come up with a solution that works with the current economic system and revenue and spending constraints.

Wheeliebin30

emo72 wrote: »

Not a politician. But I think it's obvious. Build social housing like we did when we were smashed in the 20th century. But that's anathema to free market government. Sometimes the free market doesn't provide.

It it's that simple how come no country has done this successfully?

Idbatterim

One other poster mentioned it and it's why I'm done with fg. I've heard nothing but talk for years. Any changes made will still most likely take years to come into effect. Look how quick they can work when it's something they actually deem to be important!