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I'm worried !

pro_gnostic_8

For the first time ever I'm seriously considering cashing out my BTC to fiat. Completely.
I'm just about to press the Sell trigger -- only waiting for the transfer from trezor-to-exchange to complete.

I've been thru price crashes before of 25%/30% and held, but this time it just feels different.
This current price drop seems substantial; I'm unsure when and where it will stop/level out. It's not just the price drop that has me concerned this time around; it's the strong attack by the Chinese BCH miners, Ver, et al. And now the crazy high transaction fees -- I've just paid $28 to transfer tonight. And I'm still waiting for confirmations 2 hours later. It's ridiculous, and it's making Bitcoin unusable as a currency going forward. The mempool is stacked up with 60,000 tx's waiting to be processed. If this keeps up, the bitcoin blockchain could conceivably become completely congested and broken within 48 hours. I certainly hope not, but I'm becoming very worried indeed.

I hate getting out, but I'll be more at ease with my funds in fiat for the time being or until there is some conclusion to the current issues troubling the system.

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Shauny2010

Miners are making a fortune out of this. They are milking the life from Bitcoin now. Question is how low will it go when the panic selling hits home? $1000?
This is going to spread to the Alts too at some stage. I hope I''m wrong but I have a bad feeling about this

grindle

If you're not comfortable with the chance of a 90% drop, bow out.

That's not a prediction btw, but it's always a possibility.

Shauny2010

Just dumped 60% Bitcoin cash @ €1520, if it spikes again i'll dump the rest too

pro_gnostic_8

Still waiting for my transaction to be confirmed ........... 4 hours now.

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Question is how low will it go when the panic selling hits home? $1000?

The problem is that if Bitcoin did drop to that low level -- if it were to cascade downwards in price -- it would be almost impossible to get out.
The mempool would become clogged with tx's under the weight of sellers, much worse than the current congestion. Sellers that did manage to get their coin onto an exchange woud find the price dropping quicker than the price at which they make their sell orders. The lowering price would discourage miners from validating the blckchain -- lower block rewards for them. It becomes a death-spiral.

Historically in any market, when a crash occurs it occurs very quickly. The late sellers cannot get out. The crash scenario with bitcoin is exacerbated by the fact that before sell transactions take place, they have to be confirmed on the blockchain. As in my case above waiting an inordinate time for my tx to be confirmed. Hands are tied, can't sell.

pro_gnostic_8

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Just dumped 60% Bitcoin cash @ €1520, if it spikes again i'll dump the rest too

Dump it for Bitcoin, for fiat, or for some other altcoin?

Shauny2010

Would you not view it as a good time to buy more?
Lots of fear an uncertainty about is causing people to rush to the exchanges. Those that bought at the top now are going to get burnt badly if they sell now.
Me, I'm selling the Bitcoin cash, and looking to buy more Neo once the congestion on the exchanges clears up

pro_gnostic_8

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Would you not view it as a good time to buy more?

Nah, I've just got this bad feeling.
I know that logic tells me that the price should stabilize or even go back up in a day or two when the miners move back to BTC from BCH due to the expected BCH difficulty adjustment, but I'll be more at ease out of it.
I know also that this BCH price surge is very possibly a pump and dump by Ver and others involving the Korean Bitthumb exchange. But it is the serious issues with the btc blockchain that has me worried. We are most definitely seeing problems with the bitcoin protocol. Three days ago I made a Bitcoin Cash transaction -- it cost 4 cents and was confirmed within 2 minutes. I'm still waiting after five hours for a similar bitcoin tx ........ and after paying a fee of $28. This is just not feasible for the future health and adoption of bitcoin.

Shauny2010

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Dump it for Bitcoin, for fiat, or for some other altcoin?

Dumped for Fiat, I'll wait now for the dust to settle before buying bitcoin to use to buy Neo and OmiseGo.
But I'm happy to leave it in cash at the moment.
Transaction fees are still the bane of bitcoin, I would not be surprised now if Segwit2X gets activated after all

Wanderer78

Very interesting talk yesterday at Kilkenomics about blockchain and bitcoin, be careful folks, this probably will crash spectacularly.

pro_gnostic_8

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Just dumped 60% Bitcoin cash @ €1520, if it spikes again i'll dump the rest too

Shauny, I reckon you timed that to perfection !!!

Sold at the top, not many can manage that.
Bitcoin Cash dropping now, whereas Bitcoin is going upwards. Have we turned the corner? Baby steps, but fingers crossed.

pro_gnostic_8

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Transaction fees are still the bane of bitcoin,

They most certainly are !
Fact is, I told a little white lie earlier when saying that my transaction fee was $28. In truth it was twice that.
My bitcoin in the trezor was separated into two sub-wallets ever since Trezor updated to Segwit ............ a Segwit Bitcoin sub-wallet and a Legacy Bitcoin sub-wallet. (I never got around to consolidating both. Laziness).
So, transferring the contents of both wallets to Bitstamp cost $28 and another $26 for the second wallet. Insane.

I'm still waiting, btw. :rolleyes:

Shauny2010

Well the only plus side is it might stop you from making a haste decision and selling off.
Even if you did cash out now you'd still have done very well out of bitcoin. I remember the same old arguments a few years ago on about transaction fees and congestion, but then bitcoin was trading at sub $400!!
I'm sure the same is happening on redit now, just that I got banned from r/bitccoin so don`t go on there no more

machiavellianme

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Shauny, I reckon you timed that to perfection !!!
Sold at the top, not many can manage that.
Bitcoin Cash dropping now, whereas Bitcoin is going upwards. Have we turned the corner? Baby steps, but fingers crossed.

Is it? Looks stationary / slightly falling to me (over the past hour).

Grumpypants

The artifical 6k+ high made this crash look worse than it was. Bitcoin was under 5k a few weeks ago. 4800 is actually still a good price and now it is back up and heading towards 5300.

Bitcoin cash has stumbled and is coming down.

This has all the hallmarks of very rich people making lots of money over night and us poor buggers getting heart attacks.

pro_gnostic_8

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Well the only plus side is it might stop you from making a haste decision and selling off.
Even if you did cash out now you'd still have done very well out of bitcoin.

Oh very true. I'm way way up. It's just I feel for the newcomers to Bitcoin who bought in at $7,500. They're getting rekt, and it will jaundice their view of crypto forever.
I would definitely have sold i the transfer had gone through. I still might.

, just that I got banned from r/bitccoin so don`t go on there no more

Yeah, Theymos and his mods are far too quick to wave the banning stick. Any talk whatsoever of what they term an altcoin -- i.e., anything other than Bitcoin -- is a banning offence. Silly.

Grumpypants

This time tomorrow we will be cursing not buying those sub 5k coins.

Back to 5500 now on gdax. Up €700 since this morning.

pro_gnostic_8

Maybe, who knows in the crazy world of crypto.
What we do know, tho', is that there is epic manipulation of the markets going on.
Roger Ver in the past hour has just sent 50,000 Bitcoin (~$300,000,000) to Bitfinex to sell for Bitcoin Cash. Thus a determined effort to pump the Bitcoin Cash prce and hurt the Bitcoin price.
https://twitter.com/windsok/status/929626408753627136

Shauny2010

Grumpypants wrote: »

This time tomorrow we will be cursing not buying those sub 5k coins.

Back to 5500 now on gdax. Up €700 since this morning.

Oh gosh not at all, I would never curse a missed opportunity like that as there will always be plenty other opportunities in the future.
The original trade was to buy Bitcoin cash as much as I could afford sub €300 and sell at the previous ATH at around €900. Instead I averaged at €400 and sold at a €1500 average.

flashforward

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Maybe, who knows in the crazy world of crypto.
What we do know, tho', is that there is epic manipulation of the markets going on.
Roger Ver in the past hour has just sent 50,000 Bitcoin (~$300,000,000) to Bitfinex to sell for Bitcoin Cash. Thus a determined effort to pump the Bitcoin Cash prce and hurt the Bitcoin price.
https://twitter.com/windsok/status/929626408753627136

This is why I fundamentally have an issue with Bitcoin, the creators/ early adotors have too much of a scare, now extremely valuable resource. They alone can create mini swings and collectively can cause absolute havoc for their own gain....

ZeroThreat

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Maybe, who knows in the crazy world of crypto.
What we do know, tho', is that there is epic manipulation of the markets going on.
Roger Ver in the past hour has just sent 50,000 Bitcoin (~$300,000,000) to Bitfinex to sell for Bitcoin Cash. Thus a determined effort to pump the Bitcoin Cash prce and hurt the Bitcoin price.
https://twitter.com/windsok/status/929626408753627136

The actions of whales such as this individual will probably harm the image of BCH.

ZeroThreat

machiavellianme

ZeroThreat wrote: »

The actions of whales such as this individual will probably harm the image of BCH.

Doesnt seem to be. BCH taking off again.

rosser44

Grumpypants wrote: »

The artifical 6k+ high made this crash look worse than it was. Bitcoin was under 5k a few weeks ago. 4800 is actually still a good price and now it is back up and heading towards 5300.

Bitcoin cash has stumbled and is coming down.

This has all the hallmarks of very rich people making lots of money over night and us poor buggers getting heart attacks.

^ truth. Plenty of room for BTC to correct post s2x malarkey and still be insanely profitable. Support at 5800ish and 4800 too(which would be both good and bad). Last night was a sly move by big money, not the true correction

Thargor

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Maybe, who knows in the crazy world of crypto.
What we do know, tho', is that there is epic manipulation of the markets going on.
Roger Ver in the past hour has just sent 50,000 Bitcoin (~$300,000,000) to Bitfinex to sell for Bitcoin Cash. Thus a determined effort to pump the Bitcoin Cash prce and hurt the Bitcoin price.
https://twitter.com/windsok/status/929626408753627136

Imagine giving the order to move $300,000,000... Im sh1tting it whenever I have to move €500 of crypto.

pro_gnostic_8

Grumpypants wrote: »

This time tomorrow we will be cursing not buying those sub 5k coins.

You fella's think this price-drop is over, then?
You think we have reached the bottom?

I wouldn't be so sure. We're back down to lows again -- $5820. (That's a drop of $2,000 from Thursdays $7,880, with no realistic sign of it improving at the moment).

Around two hours ago, the difficulty level of BCH increased making it more profitable for the miners to switch back to mining BTC. Thus the mempool will get cleared faster. Now, there were over 170,000 tx's backed up on the BTC mempool .......... much of those were transactions waiting to go to the exchanges for one reason only. To sell. Now that they are going through, it could result in further selling pressure on BTC with a resultant further dip in price.

My two transactions were cleared/confirmed at 9.30 PM this evening, btw. 16 hours after I initiated it. At a combined fee of $54. This BTC blockchain is a busted-ass mechanism at present.

nuac

Would we be safer betting on the soccer?

All this talk of whales, pumping and dumping, hard forks, blockchain issues is not for the faint-hearted.

wally1990

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Very interesting talk yesterday at Kilkenomics about blockchain and bitcoin, be careful folks, this probably will crash spectacularly.

Do you know if there is any recording ? Audio or video

ZeroThreat

Weak hands make for weak pockets.

Grumpypants

Almost back to €6k now. Nerves of steel needed for this game

.

If you had been on a weeks holiday and came back to see it, you would just think it is bitcoin up to its old tricks again and laugh it off. But going through it is different.

I knew ETH would break out again, I just didn't think it would be so soon. I reckon it could go on a nice run before Christmas. I had bought in september in the 245-255 range and sold them at 265-275. Bought a few back again at 250. So i've done ok. Just thought i'd have more time to restock before the rise.

McCrack

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Weak hands make for weak pockets.

Is it not weak hands light pockets?