Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I really want to beat Argentina so I'd save anyone that would have put in a big shift.
Definitely would wrap in cotton wool the entire starting 15 if possible.

With Tommy O'Donnell injured perhaps Jordi Murphy could be given a call up to the bench to rest the backrows that started.

Other than that we should trust our depth to deliver a win against Fiji.

Anyone puts in a big performance could put pressure on the starting 15.

We are spoiled with the strength in depth we have, and we should use this match with Fiji to really test it.

I can't think of a better opportunity to test them.

I know the argument is there to mix players with experienced players but I'm impatient to see what they could do.
If they are all coached well enough they should be able to deliver the same type of performance that we saw tonight,
A lot of those guys have something to prove.

There is enough experience there to rest the 1-15 from tonight.

Jump_In_Jack

Does anyone know if there is an unwritten rule of etiquette that Tier 1 teams must field a lot of their starting team as a show of respect?
Or is it just down to the coach to do what he wants?
Or is there anything in terms of wages and contracts that the starting players demand the caps, particularly the centrally contracted guys?

Still though, Fiji match will be a one-off chance to pick a very inexperienced team before the lead in to the World Cup begins in earnest.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is an unwritten rule of etiquette that Tier 1 teams must field a lot of their starting team as a show of respect?
Or is it just down to the coach to do what he wants?
Or is there anything in terms of wages and contracts that the starting players demand the caps, particularly the centrally contracted guys?

Still though, Fiji match will be a one-off chance to pick a very inexperienced team before the lead in to the World Cup begins in earnest.

Entirely upto coach

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I really want to beat Argentina so I'd save anyone that would have put in a big shift.
Definitely would wrap in cotton wool the entire starting 15 if possible.

With Tommy O'Donnell injured perhaps Jordi Murphy could be given a call up to the bench to rest the backrows that started.

Other than that we should trust our depth to deliver a win against Fiji.

Anyone puts in a big performance could put pressure on the starting 15.

We are spoiled with the strength in depth we have, and we should use this match with Fiji to really test it.

I can't think of a better opportunity to test them.

I know the argument is there to mix players with experienced players but I'm impatient to see what they could do.
If they are all coached well enough they should be able to deliver the same type of performance that we saw tonight,
A lot of those guys have something to prove.

I agree with the intent. It's just that in practice, when the pressure comes on, you need some experience there to steady the ship.

The likes of Marmion should be well capable and Jordi's outing with the BaaBaas should have him well warmed up.

connachta

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-south-africa-player-ratings-3-3691880-Nov2017/

The 42 agrees with me at least. Worst rated among great performers

connachta wrote: »

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-south-africa-player-ratings-3-3691880-Nov2017/

The 42 agrees with me at least. Worst rated among great performers

Oh get a life. Seriously you are just coming across as a pathetic loser at this stage.

The42 or any other clickbait site is irrelevent. The coach creates a gameplan and the players execute. The coach will be extremely happy with what his players, 1-23 did. He will also know there is loads of things they can do that bit better. Nothing else counts. Especially not some random website ratings. You really need to cop yourself on.

stephen_n

connachta wrote: »

I've enjoyed the game. Kearney wasn't good, let's be honest, but gosh 38 points to South Africa!

Did you enjoy how Conway, Sweetman and Carberry played? Because they're the ones ahead of TOH, he's not even remotely close to being competition for Kearney yet.

molloyjh

If people are fed up having a conversation then stop having it......

[Deleted User]

Little bit disappointed with that. 57 - 0 is the benchmark and South Africa were bad enough that we could have put that score on them.

South Africa were terrible. Absolutely terrible.

They couldn't deal with our line speed at all and were clueless at the breakdown. They lacked discipline even though we weren't racking up the phases much at all. They are tactically inept and it completely robs them of their confidence and drive. They are a team that looks soul destroyed and when big moments went against them they can't deal with it.

Rassie might be able to turn them into something, but right now they'd be fodder in the six nations. Coetzee's pre match interview was like sitting in an interview with someone that has absolutely no answers.

In terms of the Irish performance, we've the best 9 / 10 in the world and they are so good at controlling games and playing the ref. Murray's gestures to the refs at key times really managed his decision making in our favour. Sexton manages our shape so well both in possession and without the ball. It's so hard to play against a team that is so organised but also incredibly adaptable.

Our tight 5 were totally dominant. There was a passage of play early in the second half were Healy, Henderson and Furlong all had carries at subsequent phases and there were so many SA bodies on the ground after the series of play that I was screaming at the TV to run the ball. Healy was terrific today, lived right on the line and once or twice I thought he was going to get pinged but he was unstoppable in the scrum and put in some great hits. He carried aggressively and was overall top drawer. Absolutely back to his best.

Henderson created some key moments throughout the game, carries out of nothing that really raised the tempo of our play. Good leadership performance and I think both he and Toner are playing as well as they've ever played right now.

Best and Furlong both had good games, Best in particular had his best game since this time last year. Backrow were totally on top, POM seemed to show up everywhere and there were a couple of massive hits from Stander, one in particular on Kholisi who ran at him with a head of steam and Stander stopped him dead. SOB was probably my man of the match, produced an enormous amount of work on the pitch.

Aki and Henshaw were both terrific, Aki more in the first half and Henshaw in the second. It's the most physical mid field ever to play for Ireland and Aki made some terrific reads in defence to close of the Saffas. Stockdale was excellent for 80 minutes. He has the work rate off the ball of Dave Kearney but is a massive attacking threat. He put huge pressure on the South African back 3 and even though some of the kicking wasn't sympathetic to the chaser he got himself into position to contest. Conway looked like a younger Earls, was everywhere in that first half and was very impressive for the opening try.

Bench all played well, I mostly watched Marmion, Carbery and Ryan and felt they all did well with Carbery and Marmion standing out for how well they deputised.

A word on Joe Schmidts pre match interview, just casually in conversation he starts reciting the primary SA stats from the opening 2 minutes of their second test against Australia. Best coach in the world, we are blessed.

As bad as South Africa were, we blew them away without getting into top gear. We've got a squad here that can compete against anyone and that was a big marker to put down on the march to the World Cup. If we can keep the bulk of these lads fit until 2019 I'd be hopeful of a really good tournament.

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Oh get a life. Seriously you are just coming across as a pathetic loser at this stage.

The42 or any other clickbait site is irrelevent. The coach creates a gameplan and the players execute. The coach will be extremely happy with what his players, 1-23 did. He will also know there is loads of things they can do that bit better. Nothing else counts. Especially not some random website ratings. You really need to cop yourself on.

It's laughable stuff. Conor Murray was given a 7. No reason given for marking him down.

Click bait for people to get outraged about and post comments.

The Rape of Lucretia

stephen_n wrote: »

Did you enjoy how Conway, Sweetman and Carberry played? Because they're the ones ahead of TOH, he's not even remotely close to being competition for Kearney yet.

Tomas O'Halloran is 5th or 6th choice FB in reality, and comes without the various versatility options of some of those ahead of him. The Good Ship Ireland has sailed as far as TOH is concerned.

connachta

stephen_n wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

I've enjoyed the game. Kearney wasn't good, let's be honest, but gosh 38 points to South Africa!

Did you enjoy how Conway, Sweetman and Carberry played? Because they're the ones ahead of TOH, he's not even remotely close to being competition for Kearney yet.

I did. Kearney wasn't up to the level of the others. Whatever his past legend was. Wake up. The 42 is right
But I'm happy. I don't want to target him more than I did. He was average among very good. And we have to rejoice. FFS 35 point difference against South Africa does not happen often. Greaaaaaat!

MJohnston

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's laughable stuff. Conor Murray was given a 7. No reason given for marking him down.

Click bait for people to get outraged about and post comments.

The42 is a great site, but their player ratings are often the worst things they post.

MJohnston wrote: »

The42 is a great site, but their player ratings are often the worst things they post.

The rugby articles have dropped a lot since Murray K went on his sabbatical. I haven't seen their scrum guy write an article in a long time either.

Quality has slipped imo.

connachta wrote: »

I did. Kearney wasn't up to the level of the others. Whatever his past legend was. Wake up. The 42 is right
But I'm happy. I don't want to target him more than I did. He was average among very good. And we have to rejoice. FFS 35 point difference against South Africa does not happen often. Greaaaaaat!

What metric are you measuring Kearney against?

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Tomas O'Halloran is 5th or 6th choice FB in reality, and comes without the various versatility options of some of those ahead of him. The Good Ship Ireland has sailed as far as TOH is concerned.

Who are the five ahead of him exactly
TOH will off course play for Ireland again, stupid comment

MJohnston

prawnsambo wrote: »

The rugby articles have dropped a lot since Murray K went on his sabbatical. I haven't seen their scrum guy write an article in a long time either.

Quality has slipped imo.

Murray said he'll be coming back to The42 next year - so I'm guessing they haven't really bothered to replace him. I mean, this was probably a good period for some downtime anyway, this is probably the least consequential Autumn series in quite a while, and then we're into RWC buildup next year!

Burkie1203 wrote: »

What metric are you measuring Kearney against?

"The Others"

irishman86 wrote: »

Who are the five ahead of him exactly
TOH will off course play for Ireland again, stupid comment

TRoL does it again.

mfceiling wrote: »

You're embarrassing yourself now lad. Kearney was good tonight. Very solid and played well. The one point where he caught the ball by being absolutely inch perfect to the spot was supreme...just looked so comfortable. Thought he was one of the better players out of a good team effort tonight.

He really wasnt buddy, he looked rusty
Made a few stupid mistakes defo not one of the better performances.
He was possibly the least effective back, lets not hyperbole a performance.
He did his job of adding experience to the back three,
I dont rate Kearney but since Zebo has been kicked to the curb, he was the obvious choice to start

The Rape of Lucretia

irishman86 wrote: »

Who are the five ahead of him exactly
TOH will off course play for Ireland again, stupid comment

Exactly, they are BobbyK, Payne, Conway, Sweets and Carbo.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Exactly, they are BobbyK, Payne, Conway, Sweets and Carbo.

Oh your taking the piss, my bad buddy, its hard to see when someones joking, thanks for clearing that up

mfceiling

irishman86 wrote: »

He really wasnt buddy, he looked rusty
Made a few stupid mistakes defo not one of the better performances.

Bar the bounce of the ball beating him would you care to name the "few stupid" mistakes he made?

The Rape of Lucretia

Burkie1203 wrote: »

What metric are you measuring Kearney against?

JPR, Blanco, Gallagher, Cullen. Probably.

irishman86 wrote: »

He really wasnt buddy, he looked rusty
Made a few stupid mistakes defo not one of the better performances.
He was possibly the least effective back, lets not hyperbole a performance.
He did his job of adding experience to the back three,
I dont rate Kearney but since Zebo has been kicked to the curb, he was the obvious choice to start

You're missing an 'end of' there.

irishman86 wrote: »

He really wasnt buddy, he looked rusty
Made a few stupid mistakes defo not one of the better performances.
He was possibly the least effective back, lets not hyperbole a performance.
He did his job of adding experience to the back three,
I dont rate Kearney but since Zebo has been kicked to the curb, he was the obvious choice to start

Define effective?

Our back 3 were never out of position much, certainly not for kicks. I cant remember the Boks pinging Ireland back with a kicking game. That says to me our back 3 was well organised.

Kearney got pinged for one penalty for holding on and had a few other mistakes but Conway put in two nothing kicks on the first half but still had a very good games. He also had a few knock ons from contestables.

Everything the back 3 did tonight was pretty much what was expected from them. Just because Kearney isnt in the highlights reel doesn't mean what he was doing wasnt effective. Stander had a really strong game but none of it will appear in the highlights either. But he was super effective where he needed to be.

MJohnston

Kearney was certainly showing plenty of rust, but it must have been immensely helpful for Stockdale and Conway knowing that they had someone reliable behind them for support. I think we saw the inevitable result of that. Rating players purely on their individual impacts is always a losing game.

mfceiling wrote: »

Bar the bounce of the ball beating him would you care to name the "few stupid" mistakes he made?

Thats the one coming to mind, there was others. You will have to give me till tomorrow to find the others but he was average in the game. I'm not saying terrible but no way one of the best. I'm still getting over the depression of having watched Ireland/Denmark so my mind isnt at its sharpest :pac:

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Define effective?

Our back 3 were never out of position much, certainly not for kicks. I cant remember the Boks pinging Ireland back with a kicking game. That says to me our back 3 was well organised.

Kearney got pinged for one penalty for holding on and had a few other mistakes but Conway put in two nothing kicks on the first half but still had a very good games. He also had a few knock ons from contestables.

Everything the back 3 did tonight was pretty much what was expected from them. Just because Kearney isnt in the highlights reel doesn't mean what he was doing wasnt effective. Stander had a really strong game but none of it will appear in the highlights either. But he was super effective where he needed to be.

He missed a simple ball has been pointed out, he did nothing going forward of the back three he offered the least for me.

MJohnston wrote: »

Kearney was certainly showing plenty of rust, but it must have been immensely helpful for Stockdale and Conway knowing that they had someone reliable behind them for support. I think we saw the inevitable result of that. Rating players purely on their individual impacts is always a losing game.

Thats my point buddy, he did his job in controlling the young lads