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Why there are so many junkies (chavs/knackers)in Dublin?

eduzzino5

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

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Bonniedog

Dublin Spur wrote: »

it worked in Manhattan in fairness

it might have moved the problem elsewhere but at least tourists and shoppers were safe and the main thoroughfares were clean

More importantly the people who live in the Bronx and Brooklyn and elsewhere are safer. NY was going down the tubes in late 80s. Same as here now, you could run up a long list of convictions before seeing Rikers Island. Now they throw the book at them, or did until de Blasio got elected on whinge about "police oppression" and all that nonsense. Lefties like to complain about how many people are locked up, but surely better to have them locked up than mugging and raping?

Dublin Spur

nilescraneo wrote: »

As for what can be done, the suggestions of "zero tolerance" and all that cop show bravado doesn't work and won't work.

it worked in Manhattan in fairness

it might have moved the problem elsewhere but at least tourists and shoppers were safe and the main thoroughfares were clean

Bonniedog

Dublin now has a dangerous combination of a police force which is either uninterested or powerless; a judiciary that allows utter scum to run up dozens of serious convictions before being sent to prison; a legal profession that exists parasitically on the tax payer by defending the scum, and a majority on city council who consider the scum as "victims of capitalism." We are headed for social disaster.

CucaFace

As someone who works around Mountjoy Square for the last 5 years i always felt the reputation was worse then the reality. The junkies are usually in their own worlds and don't do too much to intimidate, but it just looks so bad. Its the young scumbags aged 14 to 18 that are the ones that you have to worry about.

BUT in the last 8 weeks I've noticed a huge increase in crime and attacks in the city centre. I have heard of 8 international students in the last few weeks being mugged, and some of them in a violent way (not just the the usual snatch the phone from behind and run away type of mugging). Also random assaults are increasing in the city centre recently.

We really need to start building new prisons in this country as even if the Guards catch them, they know they will be out on the streets in a few hours so its pointless for the guards to even try and do their jobs.

Also, why do we just not have a CC in operation all over the city? I mean if you have nothing to hide, what would be the issue with this? Then anyone doing these things could be easily traced back to their holes to be arrested at a later time. I mean this would surely deter some of these scumbags....

Bonniedog

Prune Tracy wrote: »

"It happens in America too" is a bit overly defensive - I don't think the opening poster has disputed that, but they're asking about Dublin.

I reckon it's due to a policing vacuum, and I know that some major American cities have needle parks for addicts to hang out in - there aren't such places in Dublin though.

New York was going down the plug hole until the NYPD and mayor decided enough was enough. It is now relatively one of safest big cities in the world. Dublin is run by shower of half wits who are either incompetent or couldn't care less. I don't blame the cops as there was one major operation against street dealers that led to almost no jail time.

wakka12

zetalambda wrote: »

Except Dublin isn't a major city (unless you're talking in an Irish context) and comparing San Francisco to Dublin is like comparing Dublin to Waterford.

Dublin is pretty big. Its roughly half the size of san fransisoc in terms of population ,600k in central city area, nearly 1.5 million people in city and suburban area combined. Almost 2 million if you include metro area which includes places like kildare meath wicklow

SF had 800,000 in the city, 4.5 million metro area which includes distant counties and towns outside san fransico, similar to how meath kildare are in our 'metro'dublin area

zetalambda

NIMAN wrote: »

... and proof that Dublin is no worse than most other major cities.

Some people seem to think only Irish has these social issues.

The grass isn't always greener.

Except Dublin isn't a major city (unless you're talking in an Irish context) and comparing San Francisco to Dublin is like comparing Dublin to Waterford.

NIMAN

Tony EH wrote: »

Have you been to SF recently?

EVERY street corner littered with homeless people, either mental or off their face.

It's a diabolical city.

... and proof that Dublin is no worse than most other major cities.

Some people seem to think only Irish has these social issues.

The grass isn't always greener.

nilescraneo

Dublin has a small city area in comparison to other cities, with a concentration of homeless services, hostels, methadone clinics, needle exchanges etc located within it's environs. So addicts are a lot more noticeable and congregate in bigger groups.

As for what can be done, the suggestions of "zero tolerance" and all that cop show bravado doesn't work and won't work. I work indirectly in this area, and the two things that I think would make a difference are: 1. Extremely early intervention for children who begin acting out in school, ie, social worker visits child's home to assess what the underlying problem might be, and what support parents might require. Fund those supports adequately, as if you can divert that child from coming into contact with the justice system as an adult you will be saving huge money in the long run on Garda time, prison, legal aid etc.

The second would be, on a pilot basis, to at least attempt to treat drug addiction as a medical/psychological problem and not a criminal justice one. When the chief super of Store Street Garda station openly admits that he can't arrest his way out of a medical problem, but has no other tools available to him, it's time for a bloody change!

dd972

Johngoose wrote: »

Cork is turning into a bit of a hole now too.City centre filled with scumbags, beggars and feral children.Little or no sign of guards or of them doing anything about it.

Do they look down their noses at anyone not from Cork as well? :pac: (sorry, couldn't resist), bit surprising that, there is a bit of an underbelly to Cork but it seems well avoidable from all my visits there, not as obvious as such things are in Dublin or Limerick.

Johngoose

Cork is turning into a bit of a hole now too.City centre filled with scumbags, beggars and feral children.Little or no sign of guards or of them doing anything about it.

mikemac2

RTÉ Radio One have a podcast show called Documentaries on one. All sorts of random topics and many were recorded decades ago

In 1975 a young bould Pat Kenny

interviewed four lads from Foley Street. Young lads 12 - 15 years old. All in and out of St Pats or Clonmel or other young offenders places

Blatantly bragging how they broke into cars or shops but never locals houses, honour among thieves....

We got no money mister Kenny, we rob from the rich fellas and break into their cars, sure they’d don’t need it mister Kenny is the gist

RTÉ returned around 1987, one lad became a brickie fair play, one was dead from drugs and the other two got corpo housing, had 6-7 kids, never lasted in any job and it was society’s fault they hadn’t held a steady job in 12 years

I thought it was an interesting show. Anyway it just confirms what you already know, the youngsters you see out robbing and dealing and hanging around.......members of their family has likely been at it for generations

zetalambda

Flies on shit.

Tony EH

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I saw the OP mentioned 'Bad Welfare' as a possible reason. Interestingly I was told that one of the reasons that San Fran had such a similar issue was because social welfare was pretty good there compared to other parts of the US.

Nope. It's because it's mild.

When I was there on business a few years ago I was utterly shocked (and little does that to me these days) by the sheer amount of homeless folk in the city. Everywhere, and I do mean everywhere. Some dangerous characters too.

They come from all over, usually to try and get to LA first and then they're often moved on from there and find themselves in San Francisco and the like.

I had a conversation with an interesting fella who works with them, in soup kitchens and whatnot when I was there. The weather's the main draw. Because, while you can live most of the year round in NYC on $1 pizza and do ok, a New York winter will kill you, especially is f it's like the ones they've seen over the past few years.

In SF, you might get the odd chilly morning as the fog rolls in, but you probably won't wake up covered in 2/3 ft of snowfall.

Tony EH

Stoner wrote: »

San Francisco about 10 years ago was terrible, but they've addressed that issue to a large degree.

Have you been to SF recently?

EVERY street corner littered with homeless people, either mental or off their face.

It's a diabolical city.

Tony EH

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

Because Dublin is a hard city to make things work in and it leads to people dropping out socially in various ways.

It's overpriced, underfunded, under developed and has been governed by a succession of cunts who don't give a damn about the devastating wake they leave, because none of them ever have to face the consequences of their actions/policies.

People here have essentially had their ability to put a roof over their heads taken away from them and their ability start families in stable environments, due to incredibly bad political mechanisation over the last 25 years or so. You can't buy a house, you can't rent for anything reasonable, your next crappy paycheck could be your last and you may find yourself on shitty part of the Monopoly board through no real fault of your own.

There are also a cadre of folk that just don't care any more. They've given up more or less, because they know it's too much of an uphill struggle. So, they live for today and to hell with tomorrow. They know that they'll be 35 and still living at home with their parents. They know there's no real future. So, they act it out.

They have nothing to lose and nothing to gain.

sabat

Assetbacked wrote: »

Similarly, there is an internet café that is open 24 hours and charges a nominal fee of €5 or something for people to stay and "use the café" all night if they wish. As a result, there is a crew of knackers hanging around outside from early evening through the night.

This place is no longer 24 hours from about a month ago; whether it was voluntary or from pressure from the police I don't know, but it does appear to have reduced the amount of filth hanging around.

hatrickpatrick

Lux23 wrote: »

You know the victim was a junkie herself? I think these people are far more at risk of violence than you're average Joe Soap on their way to work or the pub.

I don't mind people being junkies AKA drug addicts though. I mean it's sad and it sucks for them, and I think they should get help but being an addict in and of itself isn't necessarily causing harm to others and as such isn't necessarily part of the problem in Dublin. Only some drug addicts are also psychopathic scumbags who hurt, harass and physically attack others because they think it's funny, and only some psychopathic scumbags who hurt, harass and physically attack others because they think it's funny are also drug addicts. We need to start separating these types of people when we talk about this IMO. The person who gets wasted / blazed / out of it on some drug and then spends the rest of the day lying on the boardwalk or wandering around like a zombie is not a "problem" insofar as the wellbeing of other citizens is concerned. The person who randomly harasses, shouts at, hits, or violently assaults others just for fun is very definitely a "problem" for all of society, and it's those people I'm saying should be shown absolutely no pity or leniency whatsoever by the justice system.

There are drug addicts, there are violent drug addicts, and there are violent people in general. The latter two groups urgently need to be tackled. I'm not suggesting that the law should hassle or mass-incarcerate anyone in the former group, in fact I'm explicitly suggesting that it should refrain from doing this.

Let me put this in simpler terms - is there any evidence that the victim of the firework attack was the type of person who would similarly have assaulted / nearly killed another person and laugher her head off about it? If not, regardless of being a drug addict, she's not part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Hell, I'm from Dun Laoghaire and we have a fair few addicts here due to several methadone dispensaries in the area, but again only a tiny proportion of those get wasted and then go out to cause trouble for the rest of the day. The majority of them get their dose and then seek out a quiet, secluded or derelict space in which they can use it, obliviate themselves and essentially stay out of everyone's way. Most of them specifically aim to not be disturbed while they're out of it - the derelict baths building is widely known to be a hotspot for drug addicts these days. Those people may be junkies, but in my view they're not "knackers" as mentioned in the OP's post. Knackers are those who spend their day seeking ways to disrupt, annoy, and harm others - drugs or not.

Let me put it another way. Whether somebody leans out of their window and randomly shouts "WHAT DA FUQ ARE YEWWWWW LOOKIN' AH?!" at random passers by or not is a better indicator of whether they're a scumbag, than whether or not they have a drug addiction.

Assetbacked

Around Connolly Station, as would be quite normal for main train stations in cities, there are always bottom-hangers roaming about. The area between Connolly and O'Connell Street is littered with junkies. The park on Foley Street is where drug-dealing takes place out in the open. Anyone can go and witness this any day of the week. Similarly, there is an internet café that is open 24 hours and charges a nominal fee of €5 or something for people to stay and "use the café" all night if they wish. As a result, there is a crew of knackers hanging around outside from early evening through the night. The amount of junkies and beggars in the City Centre is too high and creates a putrid atmosphere and unwelcoming sight for tourists and locals alike. One of the most infuriating things to see is elderly people walking the streets and being visibly uncomfortable by the junkies shuffling around.

On a street level, our police force should take a proactive approach and almost harass the junkies for simply hanging around. They should be routinely told to move on from the areas, stopped and questioned, have their pathetic belongings seized and thrown in the bin and intimidated by the police.

At a higher level, DCC need to work on some sort of plan which looks at what causes such a congregation of sub-humans in our City Centre in order to try and deal with the problem. I do not think this is simply a poverty issue, there are lower-socioeconomic sections of the city centre and the vast majority of people living there do not live their lives perpetually strung out. The cause must be something else.

wakka12

Swanner wrote: »

So are you saying that if everyone was as brave and savvy as you they wouldn't get attacked ?

I'm not so sure..

Take a quick glance at today's news for example...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/quick-thinking-garda-uses-phone-app-to-locate-violent-daylight-robber-813131.html

This lady fought back hard against her attacker and was injured in the process. If she was intimidated she certainly wasn't showing it. I can't speak for her saviness but it's a classic example of a completely unprovoked attack on an innocent person going about their business in the city centre.

That's just from today..

The examples that disprove your theory are too numerous to mention..

Savvy indeed.. :rolleyes:

I dont know how Ive gotten away without as much as a bad comment in Dublin..honestly never witnessed any antisocial behaviour there..Im in the city a lot during the week , often by myself, and go out at night there a lot too, and often walk home by myself from nights out.. Im a young guy and quite small/slim and people say Ive a dozy spaced out look about me :pac: Probably prime target..maybe Ive just been lucky.

Never had an aggressive beggar come up to me either..all been quite polite and very thankful if I give money

server down

Paulzx wrote: »

To be fair you are just as likely to be the victim of random street assaults and robbery as a man.

Gender is irrellevant to the low level scrotes. They hunt in packs and are willing to chance anything.

I don’t really know but I doubt it. Nothing’s ever happened to me as a male - and apparantly not to Alistar - on talbot street but I’ve heard stories from women.

Paulzx

server down wrote: »

Maybe you are a man, and your experience isn’t the same as everyone’s. You were replying to a post about a female victim.

To be fair you are just as likely to be the victim of random street assaults and robbery as a man.

Gender is irrellevant to the low level scrotes. They hunt in packs and are willing to chance anything.

server down

alastair wrote: »

Roll your eyes all you like me. You can find reports of bad stuff happening pretty much anywhere. It doesn’t make a Dublin an unsafe place, any more than it makes whatever other random location you search for crime in. My ‘theory’ is not any such thing, it’s a factual personal experience of living in this supposedly ‘unsafe’ environment for decades without incidence on the street theft/violence front.

Maybe you are a man, and your experience isn’t the same as everyone’s. You were replying to a post about a female victim.

alastair

Swanner wrote: »

So are you saying that if everyone was as brave and savvy as you they wouldn't get attacked ?

I'm not so sure..

Take a quick glance at today's news for example...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/quick-thinking-garda-uses-phone-app-to-locate-violent-daylight-robber-813131.html

This lady fought back hard against her attacker and was injured in the process. If she was intimidated she certainly wasn't showing it. I can't speak for her saviness but it's a classic example of a completely unprovoked attack on an innocent person going about their business in the city centre.

That's just from today..

The examples that disprove your theory are too numerous to mention..

Savvy indeed.. :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you like me. You can find reports of bad stuff happening pretty much anywhere. It doesn’t make a Dublin an unsafe place, any more than it makes whatever other random location you search for crime in. My ‘theory’ is not any such thing, it’s a factual personal experience of living in this supposedly ‘unsafe’ environment for decades without incidence on the street theft/violence front.

The Bishop Basher

alastair wrote: »

Never had any issue with violence or theft on the street. Perhaps it’s luck, but I suspect it’s more to do with just being savvy and not intimidated by, eh, ‘little knackers’.

So are you saying that if everyone was as brave and savvy as you they wouldn't get attacked ?

I'm not so sure..

Take a quick glance at today's news for example...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/quick-thinking-garda-uses-phone-app-to-locate-violent-daylight-robber-813131.html

This lady fought back hard against her attacker and was injured in the process. If she was intimidated she certainly wasn't showing it. I can't speak for her saviness but it's a classic example of a completely unprovoked attack on an innocent person going about their business in the city centre.

That's just from today..

The examples that disprove your theory are too numerous to mention..

Savvy indeed.. :rolleyes:

eoinzy2000

G.G.G. wrote: »

Lol, the drug addicts are here cos treatment clinics? Pretty sure they usually open cos there's already a high proportion of users in an area.....

Around the world, high concentrations of drug addicts (and associated social issues) tend to happen in similar environments. Low socio-economic status, associated unemployment, financial and mental stress,cyclical educational underachievement, a culture counter to the mainstream...

From what little I know, heroin addiction is prevalent in poor areas & synonymous with poverty. You need a lot of money to rehab here and probably a desirable end point to work to. So in short, it's the greedy b*****d's that are trying to gather as much as they can before they die that are at fault really. A pile of rehab and treatment would go a long way

Sam Quentin

I lived in London for few years, so was aware of City Centre banning/asbo's orders in UK...
Anyway I was searching just so I could post some info about such a thing, and that it would be a great idea for Dublin and probably other Towns and Cities around the Country...
And I found this, I can only assume there is in no way enough of these bans being handed out!?..

https://www.wearedublintown.ie/2013/02/first-city-centre-asbos-served-barring-five-individuals/

Sam Quentin

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

NO NO NO Your mistaken haha their just extras for the upcoming Walking Dead movie ehhhh yes really..

As I run away with shame for my Capital City

alastair

Swanner wrote: »

Agreed on the common sense but how do you manage the bit in bold ?

In my experience Dublin is one of the few cities where trouble will come find you..

You can be walking down any street minding your own business and some little knacker will come up looking for hassle..

So how do you manage to successfully differentiate between the unsightly and those looking to rob or attack you

I’ve lived in the north inner city for twenty years, and Ringsend and Phibsboro for seven years before that. Never had any issue with violence or theft on the street. Perhaps it’s luck, but I suspect it’s more to do with just being savvy and not intimidated by, eh, ‘little knackers’.

Dublin Spur

Lux23 wrote: »

You know the victim was a junkie herself? I think these people are far more at risk of violence than you're average Joe Soap on their way to work or the pub.

Well 3 female colleagues of mine have been assaulted (for their phones) in the past 18 months in the Foley St / Talbot St area.

All whilst walking to Connolly Station.

Its a fcuking kip around there and nobody seems to give a sh1t about it
The scum roam free and do what ever the hell they want.