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Apple Athenry data centre

weshtawake

What a great country when a couple of crank objectors can scuttle plans for a multi Euro "green" investment by one of the biggest corporations in the world. One of the objectors I note lives in Wicklow where, obviously, he would be seriously impacted by the development....not!

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Avatar MIA

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1104/917462-apple/

To the horror of serial objectors. They'll have to take up Bridge or something else to keep themselves entertained.

Markcheese

Doesn't matter really,
The main delays were judicial reviews and appeals of the an Bord pleanÃ¡la decision anyway...
And if you delay something long enough (unless it's an incinerator on a corporation contract) its dead in the water...

cfuserkildare

Markcheese wrote: »

Doesn't matter really,
The main delays were judicial reviews and appeals of the an Bord pleanÃ¡la decision anyway...
And if you delay something long enough (unless it's an incinerator on a corporation contract) its dead in the water...

Not sure why this is such a big deal really,
Has everyone forgotten the Luas deal?
Contract went to a French company that only employed French staff, very few Irish employees.
Might not be such a big deal.

zetalambda

Avatar MIA wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1104/917462-apple/

To the horror of serial objectors. They'll have to take up Bridge or something else to keep themselves entertained.

Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted...

[Deleted User]

Avatar MIA wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1104/917462-apple/

To the horror of serial objectors. They'll have to take up Bridge or something else to keep themselves entertained.

Just to clear up any misunderstanding, the fast tracking of applications will not rule out the ability for people to submit objections. This will not change. The fast tracking just removes 1 layer in the application process, nothing more.

Any overhaul of the planning regulations will never eliminate the ability to object.

[Deleted User]

Markcheese wrote: »

Doesn't matter really,
The main delays were judicial reviews and appeals of the an Bord pleanála decision anyway...
And if you delay something long enough (unless it's an incinerator on a corporation contract) its dead in the water...

Thats the problem right there. The objector familiar with the system isnt using the process itself to object to something, but rather the flaws inherent within it to attempt to stop a project like Apple’s. Ie, the time associated with the progression of an appeal. He/she is hoping the company will eventually say ‘f*ck this’ and throw in the towel. We don’t know whether Apple will do this or not. Total overhaul needed imo.

teddyhead

Did anyone ever clarify how the thing would be powered ?
In light of 'the citizens assembly' recommendations regarding carbon emissions , giving Apple the go ahead , with only vague outline of energy requirements would surely run counter to the governments professed 'concern' about energy issues?

TomOnBoard

Deleted User wrote: »

Total overhaul needed imo.

Fully agree.

However, we need to be careful! Such an overhaul shouldn't make objection by the State and/or the 'ordinary people' impossible- the country is already overly stacked against the 'ordinary people'. If the mighty and powerful (i.e. hugely moneyed class) are allowed to do what they want without fear of being monitored and/or controlled, the gaff will become even more of a playground for the few and a dump for the rest of us!

Planning regulations are required everywhere and people have the right in a so-called democracy to object to stuff if it adversely impacts on their lives. However, serial nimbyism that objects to everything just because they can, should not be tolerated either. The balance that is needed is what the Govt. needs to deal with, and I wish it well in doing so, on behalf of all of us!

JRant

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Fully agree.

However, we need to be careful! Such an overhaul shouldn't make objection by the State and/or the 'ordinary people' impossible- the country is already overly stacked against the 'ordinary people'. If the mighty and powerful (i.e. hugely moneyed class) are allowed to do what they want without fear of being monitored and/or controlled, the gaff will become even more of a playground for the few and a dump for the rest of us!

Planning regulations are required everywhere and people have the right in a so-called democracy to object to stuff if it adversely impacts on their lives. However, serial nimbyism that objects to everything just because they can, should not be tolerated either. The balance that is needed is what the Govt. needs to deal with, and I wish it well in doing so, on behalf of all of us!

Exactly right, we can maintain the ability to object with good reason and speed up the entire process. It's the constant delaying that kills projects, not the objections. I mean 2 years have passed with the Apple Data centre objections for a ruling that should reasonably taken no more than 6 months max. Without direct legislative intervention the wigs in the court system will continue to sit on their hands and do whatever is best for them.

[Deleted User]

JRant wrote: »

Exactly right, we can maintain the ability to object with good reason and speed up the entire process. It's the constant delaying that kills projects, not the objections. I mean 2 years have passed with the Apple Data centre objections for a ruling that should reasonably taken no more than 6 months max. Without direct legislative intervention the wigs in the court system will continue to sit on their hands and do whatever is best for them.

2 bar staff in a busy bar can serve a max of X amount of pints. Shouting, encouraging, incentivising, cajoling or threatening etc might increase the number by a tiny amount but if you want to see more customers served, you have no option but to hire more bar staff

The capacity of the courts is not infinite as anyone who has ever had to make use of them knows.

If you want the courts to hear more cases, faster, establish more courts and hire more judges, simple

Nettle Soup

I heard from a local politician last night that Apple have no intention to build the data centre now. He thinks we will regret this planning debacle in years to come.

Raging_Ninja

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I heard from a local politician last night that Apple have no intention to build the data centre now. He thinks we will regret this planning debacle in years to come.

Like I said before on this thread, this fiasco doesn't affect just those interested in building datacentres but also those who want to do every other kind big infrastructure project, be they factories or office buildings or bridges or motorways. Years and years of the cancer that are our planning laws and endless sittings of the court.

death1234567

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Planning regulations are required everywhere and people have the right in a so-called democracy to object to stuff if it adversely impacts on their lives.

Yes they should have the right to object once, at the original planning stage. Once the decision is made by an bord pleanala that should be it. No appeals, no court, no commercial court, supreme court etc. All of that is just a way for the legal profession to make money so of course it won't ever change.

Robbo

death1234567 wrote: »

Yes they should have the right to object once, at the original planning stage. Once the decision is made by an bord pleanala that should be it. No appeals, no court, no commercial court, supreme court etc. All of that is just a way for the legal profession to make money so of course it won't ever change.

You do realise that what you're proposing will require a referendum, don't you?

Also: reversing out of international treaties and an unseverable portion of our EU membership like a blind granny trying to back an artic out of a multi-storey carpark.

TomOnBoard

death1234567 wrote: »

Yes they should have the right to object once, at the original planning stage. Once the decision is made by an bord pleanala that should be it. No appeals, no court, no commercial court, supreme court etc. All of that is just a way for the legal profession to make money so of course it won't ever change.

The main point is that an overhaul is needed that balances the rights of the individual with the duties of the State. While I would agree that these things often take too long to get to an end- state, I would not be in favour of a process that cut out the courts completely. The role of the Courts in any democracy is crucial as a mechanism to ensure that the powers of Government and powerful vested interests do not ride roughshod over the rights of the person and Society. The key issue here is the need to ensure balance as between conflicting rights is maintained while always conforming to the rule of Law.

L.Jenkins

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats the problem right there. The objector familiar with the system isnt using the process itself to object to something, but rather the flaws inherent within it to attempt to stop a project like Apple’s. Ie, the time associated with the progression of an appeal. He/she is hoping the company will eventually say ‘f*ck this’ and throw in the towel. We don’t know whether Apple will do this or not. Total overhaul needed imo.

They must be delighted with themselves to think the Country can afford to p €850 million down the drain for sh and giggles. That's not to dismiss previous Governments actual failings.

dubhthach

L.Jenkins wrote: »

They must be delighted with themselves to think the Country can afford to p €850 million down the drain for sh and giggles. That's not to dismiss previous Governments actual failings.

850million might be overall cost of data center to Apple, but is not actual cost that would be spent in Ireland. Most of the cost will be made up with actual servers and power distribution system which is manufactured outside of Ireland.

Greaney

https://www.computerworld.dk/art/240546/naboer-til-nyt-apple-datacenter-i-aabenraa-frygter-larm-stoej-og-tung-trafik-det-er-jo-en-katastrofe-og-vores-huse-bliver-umulige-at-saelge#kommentarer

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0916/728192-ireland-in-danger-of-missing-renewables-targets/

[Deleted User]

Here we go again...

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2017/1205/925069-apple-athenry/

Objectors to Apple's proposed €850 million data centre outside Athenry in Co Galway, have applied to the Supreme Court for permission to appeal an earlier High Court decision that gave the green light for the development to proceed.

The proceedings look set to further delay the planned project, which if it goes ahead could create up to 150 permanent jobs.

dok_golf

Who's funding the objectors I wonder??

[Deleted User]

dok_golf wrote: »

Who's funding the objectors I wonder??

Who is funding the Athenry for Apple group I wonder

Cheshire Cat

Deleted User wrote: »

Who is funding the Athenry for Apple group I wonder

They are not going to the High Court, unlike the objectors. They don't need deep pockets.

pure.conya

dok_golf wrote: »

Who's funding the objectors I wonder??

bill gates?

the whole year inn

pure.conya wrote: »

bill gates?

Steve Jobs, just to bust balls.

L.Jenkins

Deleted User wrote: »

Who is funding the Athenry for Apple group I wonder

I don't think anyone is funding the objectors. Some People can just be bitter so and so's who love a good whinge for the sake of it.

Cheshire Cat

L.Jenkins wrote: »

I don't think anyone is funding the objectors. Some People can just be bitter so and so's who love a good whinge for the sake of it.

They must really love to whinge, if they are prepared to spend a lot of money on it :eek:

the whole year inn

L.Jenkins wrote: »

I don't think anyone is funding the objectors. Some People can just be bitter so and so's who love a good whinge for the sake of it.

This isn't go Joe Duffy there calling into.

L.Jenkins

Some don't need Joe Duffy.

jimmycrackcorm

L.Jenkins wrote:

I don't think anyone is funding the objectors. Some People can just be bitter so and so's who love a good whinge for the sake of it.

Ironically they'll be the same people who have iPhones and save their data in iCloud.

the whole year inn

L.Jenkins wrote: »

Some don't need Joe Duffy.

Yea a lengthy court battle ,with court fees and name smeared in the paper and online,such a whinge there doing.