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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

So since the last thread on this got closed and dosen't appear to be reopening any time soon. Heres a new one for you.

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brokenarms

bebeman wrote: »

What are you on about, in every job the new guy gets the ****ty end of the stick, when someone new starts in the job the ****ty stick is passed on to him, and so on it goes, has been this way since time began.

For 10 years.
No where does any job give you the ****ty end of the stick for so long.

liger

brokenarms wrote: »

For 10 years.
No where does any job give you the ****ty end of the stick for so long.

I agree, The spare/marking in system in DB is so outdated and only protected by unions and management who are afraid of change.

Having spoken to a number of spare drivers in different garages, there is an appetite to walk away from DB for a better work/life balance even if it is for less money. That's drivers with 7 and 8 years experience, not just newbies in the door a year.

Again DB failure to be proactive with how they run the company will see them suffer the loss, this time in high quality staff they have invested considerable time and money training who will stroll into GA.

end of the road

liger wrote: »

I agree, The spare/marking in system in DB is so outdated and only protected by unions and management who are afraid of change.

Having spoken to a number of spare drivers in different garages, there is an appetite to walk away from DB for a better work/life balance even if it is for less money. That's drivers with 7 and 8 years experience, not just newbies in the door a year.

Again DB failure to be proactive with how they run the company will see them suffer the loss, this time in high quality staff they have invested considerable time and money training who will stroll into GA.

if it was outdated it would have been abolished. management and unions aren't protecting it, unions have nothing to do with it. nobody is afraid of change but change has to benefit everyone, and not negatively effect the terms and conditions of the staff, for which are the union's priority, as it is what they are paid to focus on.

dfx-

bebeman wrote: »

What are you on about, in every job the new guy gets the ****ty end of the stick, when someone new starts in the job the ****ty stick is passed on to him, and so on it goes, has been this way since time began.

Really it's unusual for this to take up so much time. The older worker gets the best or first option, it's no big deal.

This is the sort of navel gazing this tendering process is wasting its time on. This is the sort of thing this tendering process is not offering anything to the customer. This is the sort of thing the tendering process is designed for, the systematic breaking down of company practices with no benefit for users.

Nothing to do with the service actually running because who cares who is marked in or not, it's not on the ticket "this ticket was issued by a marked in driver, lucky him".

This is a gargantuan waste of time.

liger

end of the road wrote: »

if it was outdated it would have been abolished. management and unions aren't protecting it, unions have nothing to do with it. nobody is afraid of change but change has to benefit everyone, and not negatively effect the terms and conditions of the staff, for which are the union's priority, as it is what they are paid to focus on.

Of course it's being protected, Of course unions have something to do with it.

If the system was changed, a better system could be implemented to make work/life balance for all at DB, not just keep marked in drivers looked after. There are plenty of ways to make positive changes to make things fair for all. Don't spare drivers pay union fees too? so why after DECADES of a system that's not fit for purpose haven't unions been able to get a change made? because it's not in the interest of the majority of reps.

liger

dfx- wrote: »

Nothing to do with the service actually running because who cares who is marked in or not, it's not on the ticket "this ticket was issued by a marked in driver, lucky him".

This is a gargantuan waste of time.

A happier driver is more likely to provide better customer service,

If a driver isn't being forced to work awful shifts while others get handy days 5days a week, there is reduced chance that driver will just call in sick instead of coming to work. less missing duties/buses off.

Better work/life balance means drivers less likely to quit. less missing duties/buses off.

That's just some off the knock on effect to the passengers.

punisher5112

I believe they are changing things but its not going to be good for marked in or spare.

Longer duties and get most driving hours out of all.

liger

punisher5112 wrote: »

I believe they are changing things but its not going to be good for marked in or spare.

Longer duties and get most driving hours out of all.

Yes, productivity related to the pay increases given. The marking in system should still be changed.

punisher5112

liger wrote: »

Yes, productivity related to the pay increases given. The marking in system should still be changed.

I don't believe it should as its unfair for those that went through cuts among cuts in the recession and held it out.

Any new staff coming in doesn't have to join as they are well aware of the system.

I can tell you for sure if it is abolished every duty will be a bad duty and there will be no handy duties.

liger

punisher5112 wrote: »

I don't believe it should as its unfair for those that went through cuts among cuts in the recession and held it out.

Any new staff coming in doesn't have to join as they are well aware of the system.

I can tell you for sure if it is abolished every duty will be a bad duty and there will be no handy duties.

There are drivers who went through cut after cut during the recession and still are spare, now faced with 10% of routes going elsewhere they face more years in the spare role.

Changing the marking in system won't change the shifts.

Should drivers be squeezed for every minute they can work in a shift? DB are trying to run a business. They need to balance the impact of squeezing the staff with staff satisfaction and how it impacts on the business.

punisher5112

I fully agree change there should be and it well could have been fixed and start more marking ins.

dfx-

liger wrote: »

A happier driver is more likely to provide better customer service,

If a driver isn't being forced to work awful shifts while others get handy days 5days a week, there is reduced chance that driver will just call in sick instead of coming to work. less missing duties/buses off.

Better work/life balance means drivers less likely to quit. less missing duties/buses off.

That's just some off the knock on effect to the passengers.

A better work life balance is great, but it's not something the regulator needs to spend so much time and energy on. Micromanagement of company practices is a waste of their time, but they are clearly much much more concerned with that than for example, DB customers on the street.

We have 30 minute gaps on the 27 at 6pm on Friday and 13s, 27s, 40s full to bursting and bunching. This is what needs to be fixed, thousands of customers who couldn't care less about marked in drivers or unmarked in drivers just waiting for a service.

How about them focusing on that. Imagine.

devnull

Go-Ahead are now advertising for the following roles
- Head of Operations
- Operations Manager
- Scheduler

Closing date is 24th November.

Appeared on a few recruitment sites as well as in trade magazines this month.

brokenarms

Interesting times ahead.

Looking forward to see what the drivers thinking of flipping will be offered.

There is a lot of talk in the canteen from spare drivers.

punisher5112

If they jump it won't be any better more then likely it will be worse.

I could be proven wrong but just doubt it very much.

devnull

From DublinBuses.com

12 GTs and 48 SGs are to be removed from the current Dublin Bus fleet during 2018 by the NTA to be provided for new operator Go-Ahead. These 60 displaced buses, plus 40 older buses will be replaced by a new order of 100 SGs commencing delivery to Dublin Bus from February 2018.

Fairest way of doing it I think, looks like there will be a mixture of ages entering service with Go-Ahead to keep the fleet profile balanced between operators.

dublinman1990

I came across a 4 page article in the November 2017 edition of Buses Magazine which is about Go-Ahead's bus operation in Singapore. It is titled Serving The Lion City.

It has a feature about Go-Ahead Singapore who have 400 buses in their fleet & began operations on the 4th of September 2016 which was built entirely from scratch. Go-Ahead run 13 bus routes in Singapore; roughly half of the routes that Go-Ahead will run in Dublin in 12 to 15 months time. Their fleet colours in Singapore are in bright green with a dark green logo. For Double Deckers are tri-axle buses such as the Enviro 500 with the EV's front end from Dublin Bus. The Wright Gemini tri-axle fleet use the SG front end from Dublin Bus. The single deckers used by Go-Ahead Singapore are Mercedes Citaros. They also have a K9 electric bus on trial from BYD. This single deck bus has previously been trialled on 2 of London's former Red Arrow bus routes. Go-Ahead are using their company networks in London & Singapore as models on how to evaluate operational opportunities before they begin their bus services in Dublin in late 2018/early 2019.

According to the article; The Singapore Bus Network runs under a Bus Contracting model much like in the UK. The network there has a large amount of Double Deckers that are somewhat familiar with the UK & Ireland. The majority of buses in Singapore are built from Alexander Dennis & Volvo. It has a total of 4,500 buses that operate over 200 routes. All of Singapore's buses are all right hand drive vehicles like in Hong Kong, the UK & Ireland.

It doesn't include an awful lot of writing about the bus network in Dublin. It is mainly focuses on the Bus market in Singapore.

You can purchase the magazine in Easons Bookshop or other newsagents here if it is available or www.busesmag.com to have a further read of this interesting article. The November 2017 issue also includes a copy of a special supplement magazine called London's Buses to read about the day to day operations of TFL's London Bus network. Happy reading.

dublinman1990

devnull wrote: »

Fairest way of doing it I think, looks like there will be a mixture of ages entering service with Go-Ahead to keep the fleet profile balanced between operators.

I suppose this says to bus passengers GA Dublin will a mix of buses will come from a handful of different types of fleets given to them on the cheap while further reducing the size of the bus fleet from Dublin Bus. It does sound controversial to do a move like this to Dublin Bus as these were buses that were earmarked for fleet expansion in BusConnects. I feel that it is not to change the Dublin Bus network in a huge way after this news. BusConnects to me when the fleet size for Dublin Bus is concerned sounds like a bit of a flop so far unless they will get the BRT contract from the NTA than things become a little more interesting after that.

GA Dublin so far after digesting this news is that they have a total 100 buses for their fleet comprising of 40 new streetlites & 60 used double deckers from Dublin Bus. But GA Dublin are still short of 25 buses as a remainder; if they plan to use a fleet of 125 buses where is the remaining 25 vehicles going to come from?

devnull

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I suppose this says to bus passengers GA Dublin will a mix of buses will come from a handful of different types of fleets given to them on the cheap while further reducing the size of the bus fleet from Dublin Bus.

They are not reducing the fleet size of Dublin Bus. Any buses taken from Dublin Bus will be replaced by brand new buses to keep the fleet levels the same as they are now and this has been stated so many times now.

It's expected that Dublin Bus will get approx 100 buses next year from what I have heard, which will allow 60 vehicles to go to Go-Ahead and 40 AVs to be withdrawn. They'll lose approx 100 buses worth of work but will suffer no loss of actual fleet numbers.

It does sound controversial to do a move like this to Dublin Bus as these were buses that were earmarked for fleet expansion in BusConnects. I feel that it is not to change the Dublin Bus network in a huge way after this news.

It's the fairest way of doing it, the other alternative would be to take no buses from Dublin Bus and give Go-Ahead a completely brand new fleet which would be far more unfair. This appears to be an attempt to somewhat balance the fleet age of NTA funded buses between the operators.

GA Dublin so far after digesting this news is that they have a total 100 buses for their fleet comprising of 40 new streetlites & 60 used double deckers from Dublin Bus. But GA Dublin are still short of 25 buses as a remainder; if they plan to use a fleet of 125 buses where is the remaining 25 vehicles going to come from?

New vehicles I would suspect will make up the balance, again to keep the age profile of the fleet balanced, I wouldn't be surprised if the GT and SG vehicles from Dublin Bus were a mixture of different ages to achieve this.

Plus it has not been explicitly stated where the Streetlites will end up.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

It does sound controversial to do a move like this to Dublin Bus as these were buses that were earmarked for fleet expansion in BusConnects.

If devnulls numbers are correct, then my read on this is is that the number of buses at Dublin Bus stays exactly the same and the overall number of buses in the dublin city bus fleet (including both DB and GA) increases by at least 60.

- Dublin Bus stays exactly the same fleet size as today
- Dublin Bus replaces 100 older buses of various ages with 100 brand new buses, but stays the same fleet size.
- GoAhead gets at least 60 buses
- The overall size of the dublin city bus fleet (DB + GA) increases by at least 60 buses.

devnull

bk wrote: »

If devnulls numbers are correct, then my read on this is is that the number of buses at Dublin Bus stays exactly the same and the overall number of buses in the dublin city bus fleet (including both DB and GA) increases by at least 60.

- Dublin Bus stays exactly the same fleet size as today
- Dublin Bus replaces 100 older buses of various ages with 100 brand new buses, but stays the same fleet size.
- GoAhead gets at least 60 buses
- The overall size of the dublin city bus fleet (DB + GA) increases by at least 60 buses.

Go Ahead have stated in their own press release that the contract will give them approx 125 buses worth of work.

It remains to be seen how the approx 65 other vehicles will be made up, but I suspect it will be a mixture of new midibuses and new double deckers, so I'd expect to see the city bus fleet increase by approx 125.

devnull wrote: »

It remains to be seen how the approx 65 other vehicles will be made up, but I suspect it will be a mixture of new midibuses and new double deckers, so I'd expect to see the city bus fleet increase by approx 125.

Which will be great news for commuters, something like a 15% increase in buses, very welcome.

dublinman1990

I do understand what you're saying now when talking about fleet size.

Are there any plans to modify the transferred NTA buses once they are swapped to GA Dublin? The fleet that will be transferred over to them will still have some familiarity with Dublin Bus regarding their wall signage, ticket machines, internal route displays, internal yellow bus poles & bus seats.

These items will probably be realigned to match with the new TFI bus livery; Correct?

bebeman

liger wrote: »

Of course it's being protected, Of course unions have something to do with it.

If the system was changed, a better system could be implemented to make work/life balance for all at DB, not just keep marked in drivers looked after. There are plenty of ways to make positive changes to make things fair for all. Don't spare drivers pay union fees too? so why after DECADES of a system that's not fit for purpose haven't unions been able to get a change made? because it's not in the interest of the majority of reps.

Lets wait and see if Go ahead have a better system. If they do fantastic, if not, you will just have to suck it up like every marked in driver has.
As for junior drivers moving to Go ahead, its a possibility, but the driver i have spoke to want to know a few things first.
1, shifts, rosters. If animals or full of bogeys , forget it.
2, Marked in, if so will move , but not if spare.
3, location of depot, if its mile away from where work starts/finishes, forget it.
4, money/conditions, if less, forget it

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Are there any plans to modify the transferred NTA buses once they are swapped to GA Dublin? The fleet that will be transferred over to them will still have some familiarity with Dublin Bus regarding their wall signage, ticket machines, internal route displays, internal yellow bus poles & bus seats.

These items will probably be realigned to match with the new TFI bus livery; Correct?

I don't have any insight, but I'd assume they will be repainted to the new livery, though I wouldn't expect any other major internal changes. Same ticket machines (unfortunately), validators, internal layout, etc.

After all, the idea would be to keep the passenger experience to be the same across both fleets.

bebeman wrote: »

As for junior drivers moving to Go ahead, its a possibility, but the driver i have spoke to want to know a few things first.
1, shifts, rosters. If animals or full of bogeys , forget it.
2, Marked in, if so will move , but not if spare.
3, location of depot, if its mile away from where work starts/finishes, forget it.
4, money/conditions, if less, forget it

Sure, just like the questions any interviewee asks when interviewing.

Something to remember about interviews, they are two way, not only is the company interviewing you, but you are interviewing the company/position and it's suitability for you.

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

I don't have any insight, but I'd assume they will be repainted to the new livery, though I wouldn't expect any other major internal changes. Same ticket machines (unfortunately), validators, internal layout, etc.

After all, the idea would be to keep the passenger experience to be the same across both fleets.

I believe GA will not be able to operate in DB colours as they are copyrighted as they are part of DBs corporate identity which is fair enough but my question does this copyright and corporate identity extend to the interiors of the buses ie the seat patterns signage on buses etc.

As for thing like ticket machines I could only hope that bus connects will sort out like these and new ticket machines/leap validators could be introduced.

Cookie_Monster

Can DB claim ownership of the interior livery choices (seat colours, yellow poles etc) as well as the exterior or is that just what the manufacture provides?

devnull

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Can DB claim ownership of the interior livery choices (seat colours, yellow poles etc) as well as the exterior or is that just what the manufacture provides?

Yellow is kind of a uniform colour for poles inside a bus and most manufacturers provide such colour as default, so I doubt they would be able to do it for that.

bebeman

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Can DB claim ownership of the interior livery choices (seat colours, yellow poles etc) as well as the exterior or is that just what the manufacture provides?

Seen the same colours on buses on TV shows, probably a small selection to pick from