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The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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vetinari

If abortion was illegal in the UK, it might be legal in Ireland by now.
Being against abortion in Ireland is a bit sanctimonious imo.
If pro lifers have accepted people going to the UK for an abortion, they will learn to accept it in Ireland.
The net outcome of current policy is to put greater stress on women who want to get an abortion.

mahamageehad

keano_afc wrote: »

What I find hilarious is their claim that they werent there to stop free speech. A claim they validated by shouting for nearly an hour over people who were trying to speak.

Yeah, I agree. This line stood out for me: "We do not believe that the speakers invited should be hosted without challenge."

I agree with the sentiment, but not the execution. Why not engage in debate there respectfully (it was supposed to be half speeches and half Q&A), or protest outside the door with pro-choice documentation? I know that the first option may not have been feasible, especially given the choice of speakers there was no pretence at balance, but surely there were better options?

NuMarvel

vetinari wrote: »

If abortion was illegal in the UK, it might be legal in Ireland by now.
Being against abortion in Ireland is a bit sanctimonious imo.
If pro lifers have accepted people going to the UK for an abortion, they will learn to accept it in Ireland.
The net outcome of current policy is to put greater stress on women who want to get an abortion.

As we heard at the Committee on the 8th a few weeks ago, it puts women's physical health at risk too:

"The Master of the Rotunda Maternity Hospital has warned that splitting a woman's healthcare across two jurisdictions poses potential risks to women's physical health travelling for terminations.

Dr Fergal Malone told the committee that the risks associated with pregnancy termination has resulted in the death of one of his patients travelling to the UK.

He said that last year, 55 patients from the Rotunda Hospital travelled to the UK to undergo pregnancy terminations following pre-natal diagnosis of fetal abnormalities.

He said risks associated with pregnancy termination include infection and haemorrhage."

I'd hope that anti-repealers would bear this in mind before telling us the 8th protects women or saves lives, but I doubt they will.

maxsmum

According to the Independent

Well, this should speed up a referendum...

tomwaterford

How anyone could argue againest abortion for babies that won't survive any length/be stillborn is fcuking disturbing

Know someone who's been through this and it's one person too many

eviltwin

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/state-pays-30k-in-compensation-to-woman-denied-abortion-in-ireland-36298487.html

Links are always good.

maxsmum

eviltwin wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/state-pays-30k-in-compensation-to-woman-denied-abortion-in-ireland-36298487.html

Links are always good.

I tried! Am too new!

Oink

Swanner wrote: »

Another carriage added to the gravy train that is state awards and payouts..

Please form an orderly queue folks..

Have you ever been told that your daughter is not going to make it. Then watched your wife sitting there wondering is her child dead or not. Every. Single. Fücking. Day.

“Gravy train.”

I swear to God and all his minions this is one topic that will one day drive me to actual violence.

EDIT: not meant as a threat towards anyone here.

mahamageehad

eviltwin wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/state-pays-30k-in-compensation-to-woman-denied-abortion-in-ireland-36298487.html

Links are always good.

From that link, this quote stands out:

She was offered little or no information on her options and was told by her obstetrician to attend ante-natal classes as normal and wait for nature to take its course.

Christ above, as if it wasn't heartbreaking enough for her without hearing that. That's at least €60,000 in two settlements that the Irish gov has paid out now for these cases. And you can bet there's loads more out there who could possibly bring a challenge on the same grounds.

_Dara_

Entered thread, now leaving thread. Do not have the energy.

RHJ

This post has been deleted.

maxsmum

Do you think Leo might change his tune if every woman who has to travel for abortion stands to get 30k?
That's a LOT of taxpayer dough, whether you personally agree with abortion or not.

captbarnacles

This country is embarrassing sometimes.

Loads more cases no doubt and they deserve every cent.

Odhinn

maxsmum wrote: »

Do you think Leo might change his tune if every woman who has to travel for abortion stands to get 30k?
That's a LOT of taxpayer dough, whether you personally agree with abortion or not.

30k plus whatever legal fees. The tendency to fight change tooth and nail in the courts is sickening.

Doltanian

Better than taxpayer funded murder of the unborn. One of the most rights is the right to life however liberals obviously don't want to extend that human right to defenceless babies who haven't had the chance to be born or grow.

maxsmum

Doltanian wrote: »

Better than taxpayer funded murder of the unborn. One of the most rights is the right to life however liberals obviously don't want to extend that human right to defenceless babies who haven't had the chance to be born or grow.

Yeah but regardless of your views, this is what's happened!

endacl

Doltanian wrote: »

Better than taxpayer funded murder of the unborn. One of the most rights is the right to life however liberals obviously don't want to extend that human right to defenceless babies who haven't had the chance to be born or grow.

On an unrelated topic....

Please don’t use the word ‘liberal’ in the Fox News sense. It loses its meaning and makes you sound stupid.

Mint Sauce

Most disturbing line in that article..

'Let nature take its course'. The woman was serverly failed by the health service and our government. Sounds like some sh!te Youth Defense would come up with.

:mad:

Outlaw Pete

maxsmum wrote: »

State has to pay 30k to woman denied abortion in Ireland

Good.

The condition meant the foetus would likely die in her womb and if carried to term the baby would probably die during labour or soon after.

mahamageehad

Odhinn wrote: »

30k plus whatever legal fees. The tendency to fight change tooth and nail in the courts is sickening.

I didn't even cop that, legal expenses would surely be as much if not more than the €30,000 award right? I've no idea, but I'm guessing it's not cheap!

Odhinn

Doltanian wrote: »

Better than taxpayer funded murder of the unborn. One of the most rights is the right to life however liberals obviously don't want to extend that human right to defenceless babies who haven't had the chance to be born or grow.

From the article-

"..........a scan revealed her unborn son had holoprosencephaly, a congenital brain malformation occurring in one in 250 pregnancies during early embryo development, and 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 20,000 at term.
The condition meant the foetus would likely die in her womb and if carried to term the baby would probably die during labour or soon after."
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/state-pays-30k-in-compensation-to-woman-denied-abortion-in-ireland-36298487.html

maxsmum

Maybe someone legal would know whether, if the country voted No in a referendum, we'd still be liable for these payouts under Human Rights law?

Odhinn

mahamageehad wrote: »

I didn't even cop that, legal expenses would surely be as much if not more than the €30,000 award right? I've no idea, but I'm guessing it's not cheap!

Well previously they fought a group of women all the way to and through the European court. We'd need the more informed than I to give a guesstimate of that sort of expense.

Oink

RHJ wrote: »

That woman deserves every single cent.

I think what mothers and fathers deserve is for the Band of Righteous Brothers to come to them crying and BEGGING for forgiveness, saying “we are so, so fùcking sorry for what we did to you and to all the others and we beg God to forgive us for doing that to you in His Name.”

Other than that I agree with you.

uptherebels

maxsmum wrote: »

Maybe someone legal would know whether, if the country voted No in a referendum, we'd still be liable for these payouts under Human Rights law?

while i'm no legal eagle, I would say yes. A no to repealing the 8th would have no affect on the outcome to the above situation in relation to human rights law

Doltanian

maxsmum wrote: »

Maybe someone legal would know whether, if the country voted No in a referendum, we'd still be liable for these payouts under Human Rights law?

And it will be No vote believe me, upto €1 billion will be pumped into Ireland to ensure it is a No vote, this is one battle Soros will not win. Today is the 100th Anniversary of the Bolshevik takeover and they have cost the lives of over 150million people in Europe in the last century with their destructive policies.

Mrs OBumble

Oink wrote: »

Have you ever been told that your daughter is not going to make it. Then watched your wife sitting there wondering is her child dead or not. Every. Single. Fücking. Day.

Do you know anyone who was told that her baby was most likely not going to make it, but chose to continue with the pregnancy any - and ended up having a child with almost no impairment.

I do.

And she thinks - Every Single Day - what if I'd taken the doctor's advice and just got rid of him?

Double-edged sword here.

There are a few conditions where they know 100% that the baby won't survive. There are vastly more where it's a best guess with a probability (value unknown) of being wrong either way.

There's also the vexed question of how long after birth you set the cut-off at - is a child who's likely to live for less than a day worth keeping? A few days? A few weeks, months, years? How on earth to you decide ...

FWIW, if it were up to me, I'd remove all legal regulation of abortion. Leave it totally for doctors to decide, in consultation with their patients. There would still be plenty refused, because doctors decide it's not in their best interests.

mahamageehad

maxsmum wrote: »

Maybe someone legal would know whether, if the country voted No in a referendum, we'd still be liable for these payouts under Human Rights law?

Retrospective payments to people forced to travel before any referendum change was implemented? I'd guess probably. But I think many of these women don't care about the money, they are doing it to stop other women being in the same situation so I don't know if many would pursue once a restriction was lifted.

The vast majority of people seem to be behind repeal in the case of FFA so I'd be hopeful that that will stop these cases coming up in future.

[Deleted User]

Doltanian wrote: »

And it will be No vote believe me, upto €1 billion will be pumped into Ireland to ensure it is a No vote, this is one battle Soros will not win. Today is the 100th Anniversary of the Bolshevik takeover and they have cost the lives of over 150million people in Europe in the last century with their destructive policies.

What the **** planet are you posting from and in response to what topic

mahamageehad

mahamageehad wrote: »

Retrospective payments to people forced to travel before any referendum change was implemented? I'd guess probably. But I think many of these women don't care about the money, they are doing it to stop other women being in the same situation so I don't know if many would pursue once a restriction was lifted.

The vast majority of people seem to be behind repeal in the case of FFA so I'd be hopeful that that will stop these cases coming up in future.

Sorry actually Maxsmum, I completely misread you, I thought you asked would the country still be liable if the 8th was repealed.

If the referendum fails, then our current laws would stand which are a violation of human rights so it's pretty much guaranteed that we'd be on the hook for these cases.