nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

Find more posts tagged with

sub 3

Quick Links

Comments

davedanon

Itziger wrote: »

Any other sub 3 heroes? Especially first timers...

Guy in my club went from 3:04 to 2:49

Itziger

davedanon wrote: »

Itziger wrote: »

Any other sub 3 heroes? Especially first timers...

Guy in my club went from 3:04 to 2:49

Doesn't count m8. If he's not a Boardsie.

davedanon

Itziger wrote: »

Doesn't count m8. If he's not a Boardsie.

Well forget I spoke then.

Bittertown

Not in a great moral state but I owe you an update as you were all very kind to answer my post.

So it was mostly expected I didn't make it to sub3, I actually DNF at mile 15 (...). Everything was going fine, and better/easier than I expected until mile 12 (I was really scared of the first 6 miles), but after reaching the half I'm not sure what happened, I just slowed down and couldn't keep up the pace. I probably went a bit too fast (42:15 10K and 1:29:15 Half) but obviously that's not the only reason. I think pacers went even faster than this, I guess they must have hit the half in 1:29:05 or something. I finished at mile 15 in an average pace of 6:55 (last 2 miles were probably in 7:15 or something).

I don't really get why because I ran actually 2 or 3 times at the same pace during my training, and I felt way better, even though I was doing it on tired legs and eating junk food all the time. Today I have the worst DOMS I've had in a while, after running "only" 15 miles. I have no idea what's up with all that. On top of it when I stopped I had massive pain in my lower shins (just above the feet) and could barely walk for 10 minutes (didn't feel anything while running).

So yeah, a total fail on my part. I thought the first half would be harder, and while I knew the second part would see me slow down, I didn't expect at all to have my pace drop that fast over 2-3 miles and this soon in the race. I thought that would happen mile 18-20.
I'm not really sure what I'll do from there. In a way I know I am not there at all (obviously...) on the other hand some people I've been training with and that I "beat" easily on every run (intervals, tempo, long runs etc) have ran in 3:12 or 3:16. So that should mean I shouldn't be that far? Hope I don't sound like a dick here, they were way better than me and finished the race yesterday at least.

Thanks again to everyone that gave their opinion on my post and congrats on everyone that achieved sub3.

martyboy48

Itziger wrote: »

Doesn't count m8. If he's not a Boardsie.

LOL ☺

martyboy48

davedanon wrote: »

Guy in my club went from 3:04 to 2:49

Nice. ... Over what time period? ?? Many marathons under his belt????

davedanon

He's the right side of 30, but juggling job and college left him unable to devote the kind of time he wanted to training, I think. Finished college now and changed his job, and he's been coming on in leaps and bounds this year. 3:04 in Dublin last year. Done 4-5 marathons, I think.

But you know, it doesn't matter.

martyboy48

davedanon wrote: »

He's the right side of 30, but juggling job and college left him unable to devote the kind of time he wanted to training, I think. Finished college now and changed his job, and he's been coming on in leaps and bounds this year. 3:04 in Dublin last year. Done 4-5 marathons, I think.

But you know, it doesn't matter.

I'm sure Itz comment was tongue in cheek ☺
Looks like a great return from your clubmate, sure he'll progress even more when things settle down and gets decent run of training in.... Fair play to him ☺

noelearly

Itziger wrote: »

Any other sub 3 heroes? Especially first timers...

Hero's is a loose term these days.

noelearly

davedanon wrote: »

He's the right side of 30, but juggling job and college left him unable to devote the kind of time he wanted to training, I think. Finished college now and changed his job, and he's been coming on in leaps and bounds this year. 3:04 in Dublin last year. Done 4-5 marathons, I think.

But you know, it doesn't matter.

I'm with Itz in this. Doesn't count

kerrylad1

davedanon wrote: »

Guy in my club went from 3:04 to 2:49

That's some improvement.Fair play to him.

davedanon

noelearly wrote: »

I'm with Itz in this. Doesn't count

thanks for that contribution

Itziger

davedanon wrote: »

noelearly wrote: »

I'm with Itz in this. Doesn't count

thanks for that contribution

Chillax Dave, we're only having a laugh. Still doesn't count mind. ðŸ˜

Bahanaman

If he joined boards this minute would that do? Or would he have to do another one post becoming a member?!:P

davedanon

I'll ask if he wouldn't mind running another 2:49 quite soon. And joining Boards.

tomred1N

Any techie able to update this table ?

Name

5k

5m

10k

10m

HM

Mara

Target Race

rom 17:42 30:29 n/a 1:02:18 1:26:59 2:54:21 London 2017
McMillan 18:28 30:28 38:22 1:04:07 1:25:32 3:00:00 Ref Times
AMK 17:38 29:13 37:40 1:02:30 1:27:xx 3:00:36 DCM 2016
MrMacPhisto 17:23 29:01 36:42 1:01:55 1:22:53 3:00:56 Valencia 2016
FBOT 17:42 29:59 38:42 1:00:34 1:26:02 3:00:59 TBC
Ainsyjnr 18:32 30:07 36:50 1:02:24 1:24:04 3:01:46 TBC
Jahaco 19:22 31:08 39:07 1:04:19 1:26:23 3:03:19 DCM 2016
Itziger 17:50 29:52 36:48 N/A 1:22:04 3:03:28 TBC 2016
Duanington 17:35 29:17 36:36 1:01:42 1:23:22 3:03:xx Berlin 2016
TbL 19:27 31:xx 39:30 1:04:xx 1:25:xx 3:05:xx TBC 2016
snailsong 19:06 31:49 39:11 N/A 1:28:20 3:06:52 TBC 2017
Kemboi 18:00 29:50 38:00 1:05:50 1:25:30 3:07:xx DCM 2016
Bulmers74 18:54 31:46 39:33 1:06:00 1:26:27 3:08:36 TBC 2016
Tomred1N 18:30 32:10 41:40 1:05:57 1:24;17 2:57:55 DCM 2017
davedanon 18:34 31:34 39:51 1:06:21 1:30:30 3:14:18 Berlin 2016
El Caballo 18:34 31:15 39:46 1:05:xx 1:26:26 3:15:29 TBC 2017
Averagejoe123 17:47 30:26 38:41 1:04:45 1:27:xx 3:17:xx TBC 2017
Tomwaits48 19:17 32:00 39:xx 1:05:45 1:28:xx 3:17:xx TBC 2017
ger664 19:45 N/A 41:11 1:09:33 1:35:56 3:18:12 TBC 2017/18
rooneyjm 19:35 N/A 39:20 1:08:xx 1:29:37 3:23:xx DCM 2016
CR 7 17:45 30:30 37:21 1:04:50 1:23:25 5:04:xx TBC 2016
Sandwell 17:24 28:57 37:10 0:59:29 1:22:xx 6N/A TBC 2016
FastTwitcher 18:22 30:16 38:34 1:03:57 1:25:45 2:59:36 BetterShortDist
MediumTwitch 18:40 30:40 39:01 1:04:31 1:26:13 2:59:46 BetterMedDist
SlowTwitch 19:00 31:08 39:31 1:05:09 1:26:00 3:00:22 BetterLongDist

tomred1N

Hi there , as a former logger ( time constraints :rolleyes: ) on here I think it only fair I report back in on this thread as it provided invaluable support and knowledge for me over the years when sub 3 was only a pipe dream.
I found this thread so good I have read it twice over time and picked up a lot of tips and guides. The table I tried to update from almost 18 months ago was when I really began to think of an assault on the sub 3. I needed to address half time first though as it was 1:28:30 or thereabouts for 3 years. Got injured trying last winter and out till April this year. In hindsight rest may have been a benefit as missed London 2017 marathon due to severe ITBS.
Good summer training though , highlight 18:30 5K and then in September in charleville out of the blue I did low 1:24. Still didn't think it was low enough to go sub 3 especially when I looked at 2016 low 1:24 results and how they fared n DCM16. Most were 3:05 - 3:10 all on target at halfway but most fading at the end.
Was unsure but prompting of club members who notice things I didn't suggested I was in shape for it.

Anyway day of race I decided to ease into it, and make a decision as things went. How I would feel on Chesterfield Avenue would be a big indicator. In a former sub 3:10 ( 2015) attempt I backed off here as knew pace was unsustainable. At the time it a was correct decision. a safe 3:14 was result.
Anyway this year after a conservative start for 3 miles ( and feeling sh!te) about a minute behind 3 hours pacers I looked at watch going up chesterfield and it was 6:25. I had to ask another runner and he confirmed. I wasn't even breathing . By 10K I was bang on 3 hour pace. Knew I was in form. Handy till halfway but through in 1:29:30. was still good bit behind pacers on clock time so made decision to continue handy till mile 15 at walkinstown roundabout. Then on my favourite part of course I upped pace a bit to track down pacers. Caught them on mile 19 at the timing matt. It was a nice feeling to have to slow down to stay with them. Knew then sub 3 was in the bag and decided to ride with front pacer till top of roebuck hill. Pacer was nice guy, probably on here, never got his name.
Top of roebuck hill I decided to drive on, saw two runners with purple tops away in distance, caught them passing about 50 runners in a 6:30 mile and continued passing all way to finish. Pace levelled off again to around 6:45 but enjoyed the run in and was fresh as a daisy finishing in 2:57:55

I started on 2012 novice thread with a 4:16 marathon. That day my goal was not to walk and say I ran ( jog, move , crawl but not walk

) It was my hardest marathon but in truth was the basis for what has followed. Never run one unless you've done the training and never let the mind tell you walk.
This was my 7th marathon and 7th PB. ( I have never walked a foot in any of them !!) It was by far the easiest one I have ran. The margins for improvement get tighter but for me the marathon differs from any other running event because it involves so many parameters that can be improved without natural running ability like say natural speed. You can eat less, sleep more, train smarter, run slower , join a club , read logs like Krusty's
Sub 3 seems fast but in the whole scheme of things its not. Its hard, sure only 2% get there but so much of that is knowledge and that's why I highly recommend this thread and the numerous posters who have contributed their views and experiences. Not pointing in any direction but if a former 16.5 stone , chain smoking , Guinness guzzling athlete can do it any one can

OOnegative

tomred1N wrote: »

Hi there , as a former logger ( time constraints :rolleyes: ) on here I think it only fair I report back in on this thread as it provided invaluable support and knowledge for me over the years when sub 3 was only a pipe dream.
I found this thread so good I have read it twice over time and picked up a lot of tips and guides. The table I tried to update from almost 18 months ago was when I really began to think of an assault on the sub 3. I needed to address half time first though as it was 1:28:30 or thereabouts for 3 years. Got injured trying last winter and out till April this year. In hindsight rest may have been a benefit as missed London 2017 marathon due to severe ITBS.
Good summer training though , highlight 18:30 5K and then in September in charleville out of the blue I did low 1:24. Still didn't think it was low enough to go sub 3 especially when I looked at 2016 low 1:24 results and how they fared n DCM16. Most were 3:05 - 3:10 all on target at halfway but most fading at the end.
Was unsure but prompting of club members who notice things I didn't suggested I was in shape for it.

Anyway day of race I decided to ease into it, and make a decision as things went. How I would feel on Chesterfield Avenue would be a big indicator. In a former sub 3:10 ( 2015) attempt I backed off here as knew pace was unsustainable. At the time it a was correct decision. a safe 3:14 was result.
Anyway this year after a conservative start for 3 miles ( and feeling sh!te) about a minute behind 3 hours pacers I looked at watch going up chesterfield and it was 6:25. I had to ask another runner and he confirmed. I wasn't even breathing . By 10K I was bang on 3 hour pace. Knew I was in form. Handy till halfway but through in 1:29:30. was still good bit behind pacers on clock time so made decision to continue handy till mile 15 at walkinstown roundabout. Then on my favourite part of course I upped pace a bit to track down pacers. Caught them on mile 19 at the timing matt. It was a nice feeling to have to slow down to stay with them. Knew then sub 3 was in the bag and decided to ride with front pacer till top of roebuck hill. Pacer was nice guy, probably on here, never got his name.
Top of roebuck hill I decided to drive on, saw two runners with purple tops away in distance, caught them passing about 50 runners in a 6:30 mile and continued passing all way to finish. Pace levelled off again to around 6:45 but enjoyed the run in and was fresh as a daisy finishing in 2:57:55

I started on 2012 novice thread with a 4:16 marathon. That day my goal was not to walk and say I ran ( jog, move , crawl but not walk ) It was my hardest marathon but in truth was the basis for what has followed. Never run one unless you've done the training and never let the mind tell you walk.
This was my 7th marathon and 7th PB. ( I have never walked a foot in any of them !!) It was by far the easiest one I have ran. The margins for improvement get tighter but for me the marathon differs from any other running event because it involves so many parameters that can be improved without natural running ability like say natural speed. You can eat less, sleep more, train smarter, run slower , join a club , read logs like Krusty's
Sub 3 seems fast but in the whole scheme of things its not. Its hard, sure only 2% get there but so much of that is knowledge and that's why I highly recommend this thread and the numerous posters who have contributed their views and experiences. Not pointing in any direction but if a former 16.5 stone , chain smoking , Guinness guzzling athlete can do it any one can

Cheers for the input, great improvement fair play to you. Many would love to improve the way you do, 7th PB in a row. Anything you have changed over those years? And 18.30 is fastest you have ran in 5k?

squinn2912

I did 18:28 on treadmill the other day was very pleased with myself until an hour later when walking down the street the sniper was out. Small tear on my hamstring. When I come back from injury I usually try to focus on short distance speed. Then something like this happens. Should I go towards miles?

Swashbuckler

squinn2912 wrote:

I did 18:28 on treadmill the other day was very pleased with myself until an hour later when walking down the street the sniper was out. Small tear on my hamstring. When I come back from injury I usually try to focus on short distance speed. Then something like this happens. Should I go towards miles?

What were you running 5k in before the injury?

squinn2912

What were you running 5k in before the injury?[/quote]

Haven't done a triail in a year I don't even know! Been out all summer so my idea was to do a 5k every second week to measure my progress. In fairness I was stupid: I did 12x400m Wednesday then that 5k Thursday. Asking for trouble!

Swashbuckler

squinn2912 wrote:

Haven't done a triail in a year I don't even know! Been out all summer so my idea was to do a 5k every second week to measure my progress. In fairness I was stupid: I did 12x400m Wednesday then that 5k Thursday. Asking for trouble!

Haha you've answered your own question. In fairness if coming back from injury or time off speed training needs to be handled carefully. And two hard sessions two days in a row is asking for trouble.

squinn2912

ðŸ˜‚ I know! Idiotic in the extreme. I was away for a few days over midterm and decided I'd work off the calories. It was a forest gump idea I must say. Hoping it's now a week off then a week steady and then back to speed. Carefully!

tomred1N

OOnegative wrote: »

Cheers for the input, great improvement fair play to you. Many would love to improve the way you do, 7th PB in a row. Anything you have changed over those years? And 18.30 is fastest you have ran in 5k?

Yep that's fastest 5k. Don't run many, maybe 1 a year to gauge 5k pace for shorter track reps. E.g. 3x 6 mins @5k pace.
Changes:
All long runs Sunday morning on empty . Nothing, nada , not even water unless very warm. Only take gels on marathon day.
Lost stone this year since July . Was 11.5 stone before taper . No booze during training for DCM this year. Cleaned up diet. Weight Big impact for sure but still need to eat sensibly to maintain energy.
Running with club mates. Using faster guys to push limits. Slower paces for longer runs. Long runs slowish but with last 4 miles always bit faster. Like 7:45 down to 7:00 for last 3/4.
9/10 miles easy Saturday before long run Sunday . Simulate tired legs but not flogging yourself at faster paces.
Changed tempo run this year to cruise intervals . 3 x2m with 2 min recovery . Massive difference to P&D continuous tempo. Pace gradually got easier and faster over weeks . 6:45 down to 6:15/ 6:10 since May. 10 mile pace now my favourite.
After 5 years I'm in complete alignment with McMillan calculator over all paces.
Must try to fix / update that table as interesting to compare.

OOnegative

tomred1N wrote: »

Yep that's fastest 5k. Don't run many, maybe 1 a year to gauge 5k pace for shorter track reps. E.g. 3x 6 mins @5k pace.
Changes:
All long runs Sunday morning on empty . Nothing, nada , not even water unless very warm. Only take gels on marathon day.
Lost stone this year since July . Was 11.5 stone before taper . No booze during training for DCM this year. Cleaned up diet. Weight Big impact for sure but still need to eat sensibly to maintain energy.
Running with club mates. Using faster guys to push limits. Slower paces for longer runs. Long runs slowish but with last 4 miles always bit faster. Like 7:45 down to 7:00 for last 3/4.
9/10 miles easy Saturday before long run Sunday . Simulate tired legs but not flogging yourself at faster paces.
Changed tempo run this year to cruise intervals . 3 x2m with 2 min recovery . Massive difference to P&D continuous tempo. Pace gradually got easier and faster over weeks . 6:45 down to 6:15/ 6:10 since May. 10 mile pace now my favourite.
After 5 years I'm in complete alignment with McMillan calculator over all paces.
Must try to fix / update that table as interesting to compare.

Fair play to you, big difference I see with me is the whole weight thing. 11.5 stone is 2 stone about my natural fitness weight.

hot buttered scones

Might as well throw my hat in the ring. I'm planning a crack at sub 3 next year in Frankfurt. I'm going to have a good read of this thread, but currently I'm probably just going to go with P+D again. I've had good results so far with the up to 55 plan, which I followed twice, although I did an extra days easy running this year to bring it up to 60. I'd like to move up to the next plan (55-70) next year. P+D just seems to suit me, and it's worked so far so why change is my attitude.

EC1000

Will throw my hat in the ring too. Entered Rotterdam over the weekend. Did it last year and was hopeful of getting close but missed 6 weeks of training with an injury in the run up and ended up with a 3.07 after crashing and burning at mile 16. Hopefully, if i mind myself and listen to the body a bit more, sub 3 should be achievable. Either way, can't wait for the next marathon journey and will give Trim 10 mile (goal is sub 60, did 61.XX last year) and the Mullingar half (17th March) a good rattle along the way.

and still ricky villa

EC1000 wrote: »

Will throw my hat in the ring too. Entered Rotterdam over the weekend. Did it last year and was hopeful of getting close but missed 6 weeks of training with an injury in the run up and ended up with a 3.07 after crashing and burning at mile 16. Hopefully, if i mind myself and listen to the body a bit more, sub 3 should be achievable. Either way, can't wait for the next marathon journey and will give Trim 10 mile (goal is sub 60, did 61.XX last year) and the Mullingar half (17th March) a good rattle along the way.

Great minds think alike

I'm heading back to Rotterdam too. Unfinished business from last year. I'm not putting a time on it this year though. Yet

zulutango

And here's my two cents ...

I've registered for Seville on 25th February 2018. Four weeks ago did 1:25:28 on a flat half marathon. I took a bit of a rest after that as I felt the body was creaking a bit and have just got back to things this weekend. I ran 18:46 for a 5k back in June. On that basis I think I might be there or thereabouts to have a go at it. Anyone know a good half marathon to do in early January?

squinn2912

EC1000 wrote: »

Will throw my hat in the ring too. Entered Rotterdam over the weekend. Did it last year and was hopeful of getting close but missed 6 weeks of training with an injury in the run up and ended up with a 3.07 after crashing and burning at mile 16. Hopefully, if i mind myself and listen to the body a bit more, sub 3 should be achievable. Either way, can't wait for the next marathon journey and will give Trim 10 mile (goal is sub 60, did 61.XX last year) and the Mullingar half (17th March) a good rattle along the way.

When is trim 10m? And what is P+D?