nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Why there are so many junkies (chavs/knackers)in Dublin?

eduzzino5

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

hatrickpatrick

It's a lack of judicial enforcement, simple as that. The scumbag who put a firework in that girl's hoodie a few weeks back is clearly identifiable on the video footage. If caught, he should be looking at a minimum prison sentence of several years for extremely serious assault, but he won't get it. Society will be lucky if they bother bringing him before the courts at all, knowing full well that he'll walk away with a slap on the wrist and the Gardai's time will once again have been wasted.

Ireland needs more jails, harsher sentences for violent behaviour, and more creative ways to manage scumbags who have done their time. I've always said that people who are "well known to the Gardai" should be electronically tagged so that when a report of serious anti social behaviour is called in to the local Garda station, the local super can pull up a map showing him or her where every "well known to the Gardai" scumbag is, and easily see who might be a suspect in whatever antisocial crap is being reported. If such people are found to be repeatedly engaging in it, as far as I'm concerned they should be subject to longer and longer sentences.

Hand in hand with this zero tolerance policy towards violent crime should be a complete eradication of laws against victimless crime. For example, there wouldn't be any drug cartels if drugs were legal, just as there aren't any alcohol cartels in the United States anymore since prohibition is no longer in place. Cut the ground from underneath these organisation and watch them starve, and stop getting people mixed up with the justice system and law enforcement for entirely victimless crap like being caught with pills for personal use or smoking a joint by the canal. Liberalise all laws based around personal choices, while simultaneously massively clamping down on all violations of laws which relate to harming others.

This isn't the whole picture obviously but it's definitely part of it. I fully believe that the guy who put a screamer into a girl's hoodie and damn near blew a hole in her skull is a psychopath and pretty much beyond redemption. As far as I'm concerned, people like this should be placed on semi-permanent watch lists akin to sex offenders registries, and never allowed to move throughout society without the Gardai knowing where they are and what they're up to. Harsh, sure, but so is a "prank" which would have undoubtedly resulted in a death, or at least a serious and permanent brain injury, had that rocket exploded with its payload facing her head rather than her hood. We can't afford to tolerate this kind of stuff, as far as I'm concerned that kind of assault should carry a definite custodial sentence and some kind of long term surveillance thereafter, regardless of any mitigating factors whatsoever.

EDIT: I categorically do not believe that social housing or even socioeconomic status are to blame for this. I live in what might be considered a posh area of Dublin and violent incidents happen here too. Hell, a guy was severely stabbed coming home from a Christmas Eve party just down the road from me last year. The fact that this incident was caught on video and I never heard anything about it after the initial news reports speaks volumes - I'd bet my life savings that the people involved and clearly identifiable on video didn't spend a single second inside a prison cell.

maninasia

Nobody deserves social housing, they can ask for a roof over their head not a lifetime of freebies and working the system.They certainly DO NOT deserve a free house.

Birdie Num Num

Stoner wrote: »

In some cities in the states they pick up the drug users and drive them away from the centre, there are zones and tourist spots they need stay out of.

San Francisco about 10 years ago was terrible, but they've addressed that issue to a large degree.

However it's a tactic of literally kicking the can down the road.

Americans seem at peace with having areas where living conditions are terrible, they drop the addicts off in these spots, nobody of note lives there. Locals simply don't go there, middle-class Americans are terrified of them, tourists seldom see them.

Get a bus from NY to Boston and you'll see what I mean.

I saw the OP mentioned 'Bad Welfare' as a possible reason. Interestingly I was told that one of the reasons that San Fran had such a similar issue was because social welfare was pretty good there compared to other parts of the US.

wakka12

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Ive a friend living close to the Tim Kelly Flats in Charlemont st (so called "Charlo"). He's never had any issue whatsoever but everything I pass by they look very dodgy.

But honestly, there are people that don't make lots of money if they had issue and they deserve a social house - like they need to have one but they are good people. I was more referring to all the people asking for change and looking to get into a fight hanging around next to the spire or Parnell st.

I dont have a problem with social housing..I agree they deserve a house..it just doesnt need to be clustered together on some of busiest and most expensive land in the capital city, and the blocks dont need to be unfiformly social hosuing, they dont need to be so scary and intimdating looking, why dont they make the buildings look nice with balconies and big windows and shops at ground floor etc

eduzzino5

wakka12 wrote: »

Simply massive tracts of social housing within the city centre core. i dont know why, I havnt seen it anywhere else Ive ever visited. Or maybe other countries social housing is less instantly obvious as social housing. But yeh, huge amounts of the old georgian city were demolished to put up block after block of horrid looking social housing. I dont know why theyre still there, they should really be made into normal looking apartment complexes with mixes of paid homes and social houses with retail units at ground floor

Some of the most important,central land with extremely high economic potential shouldnt be given over to social housing. St patricks church, one of the countrys biggest tourist attractions st patricks church, is literally surrounded by social housing. Im not advocating moving these people out to suburbs and making slums. But they dont need to live in such central areas. Places like rathmines or harolds cross are perfect distance as they are within walking distance to cbd as well. But yeh it needs to change.

Couldn't agree more. Ive a friend living close to the Tim Kelly Flats in Charlemont st (so called "Charlo"). He's never had any issue whatsoever but everything I pass by they look very dodgy.

But honestly, there are people that don't make lots of money if they had issue and they deserve a social house - like they need to have one but they are good people. I was more referring to all the people asking for change and looking to get into a fight hanging around next to the spire or Parnell st.

eduzzino5

goz83 wrote: »

So you're from Ireland (possibly Dublin) and recently returned after being in Boston for "a while" and you don't want to offend anyone and also don't know the "right word" to use use? OKAY :rolleyes:

So having returned from NYC where I recently was for a while (4 days) I noticed far more people with problems when walking around Manhattan. They slept on the benches in Central Park, The Subway Stations and I even saw a few on 7th Avenue & Broadway in sleeping bags alongside the walls of the busy shops and restauarants. They walked the streets talking to themselves, or shouting at other people. The more stable (using that word with a picnch of salt) were selling gazettes. I was queuing at the Museum of Natural History one morning and one these less fortunate people was trying to sell what looked like a 2 page paper for $2. He said "Aight Folks....if ya don have enough, y'all kin make a donation....a dollar, a freakin apple". Then he threatened to sing if nobody gave him money. Oh God...he was not bluffing :eek: He did warn us that he was bad and he was right. His signing was like someone shouting really loudly a Britney Spears song. Then he was Snoop and then he was P Diddy. Torture. He moved on to assault others with his tunes further down the line.

I think maybe you notice our undesirables more because they usually dress better. You don't see them wearing Penneys best....oh no...it's Nike all the way.

What was the purpose of your OP?

I'm not saying there are no knackers in other cities!!! I KNOW THERE ARE! I just DO KNOW why there are knackers in NYC and Boston since I've lived there, informed myself and I know the history of the city, I don't know why there are knackers IN DUBLIN. I ain't saying Boston is better, I just wanted to get an idea/explanation/suggestion of where all these knackers are coming from

goz83

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

So you're from Ireland (possibly Dublin) and recently returned after being in Boston for "a while" and you don't want to offend anyone and also don't know the "right word" to use use? OKAY :rolleyes:

So having returned from NYC where I recently was for a while (4 days) I noticed far more people with problems when walking around Manhattan. They slept on the benches in Central Park, The Subway Stations and I even saw a few on 7th Avenue & Broadway in sleeping bags alongside the walls of the busy shops and restauarants. They walked the streets talking to themselves, or shouting at other people. The more stable (using that word with a picnch of salt) were selling gazettes. I was queuing at the Museum of Natural History one morning and one these less fortunate people was trying to sell what looked like a 2 page paper for $2. He said "Aight Folks....if ya don have enough, y'all kin make a donation....a dollar, a freakin apple". Then he threatened to sing if nobody gave him money. Oh God...he was not bluffing :eek: He did warn us that he was bad and he was right. His signing was like someone shouting really loudly a Britney Spears song. Then he was Snoop and then he was P Diddy. Torture. He moved on to assault others with his tunes further down the line.

I think maybe you notice our undesirables more because they usually dress better. You don't see them wearing Penneys best....oh no...it's Nike all the way.

What was the purpose of your OP?

Technocentral

Jawgap wrote:

.....a few years ago the HSE made the decision to centralised the methadone / rehab clinics and 'bring them in' from the suburbs......as a result, the junkies came in to town, then the dealers, then the junkies who weren't on methadone etc.....

Jawgap wrote:

Actually, I believe the correct terms is skangers or at a push scobies......

The term is anti social thugs, the other terms are needlessly offensive.

afatbollix

Its a huge issue but like this thread, no one wants to hit the problem head-on.

I went to Ballyfermot college 10 years ago and I was always wondering why so many of them were on the bus at 8am until someone told me two stops after the college was a clinic. They just didn't give a **** and we had everything from a hot box situations to smoking heroin on the top deck.

Then I started working in town by a clinic which was also fun.

Maybe its a good thing its out more in the open but I'd rather see them spread it out with more local facilities. Making a Hamsterdam situation just doesn't work. (Look up teh wire)

jon1981

OP, I'm sure it's been said here already but there's nothing unusual here. Take a walk through San Fran, NYC and most major cities in Europe such as Paris and you'll find Dublin has nothing on these cities. Also Boston I'd argue has a worse problem than Dublin... i find your post alittle odd.

Here we go

volono wrote: »

Hi op,
like other posters have mentioned and i could be wrong on the exact figures but its my understanding that there's 7 methadone clinics from amiens street on wards in the city center , some homeless accommodation and the homeless persons unit is directly across from pearse street garda station. The point being is that these people have to travel into that area of the city every day to collect said methadone as you'll find the vast vast majority are not on '' take home '' supply ie 5 days worth of methadone at a time. Why are they centered there??
Have any of you looked into suboxone use as an alternative to methadone by the way??
Have any of you asked why these people are heroin users in the first place?? and by that i mean people from disadvantaged backgrounds and otherwise (which includes people ''that live there'' as one poster mentioned?? )
Have you seen the European commissioned study from back in the 80's that stated that the north inner city was one of the most impoverished, under resourced areas in the WHOLE OF EUROPE at the time , no wonder Tony Gregory is still idolized in those areas and this is with the I.F.S.C. and some of the most profitable companies in the WORLD operating on the doorstep.
I feel people are very quick to judge others and it's not only ''junkies '' etc but in all walks of life , the question should be WHY??, how can we have an ever increasing homeless crisis , hospital crisis in fact a crisis in every social provision i can think of ??
People don't want to think like that though?? do they , we see junkies and homeless and beggars and what do we think?? F them , but imo it's the failure of successive failed policies on behalf of the elected governments to implement a plan to eradicate them.
Do people truly believe that the vast majority of elected officials have our best interests at heart ?? , like seriously!!
I am on the side of nurture in the nature versus nurture debate and although millionaires have come out of impoverished backgrounds i believe you are a product of your environment which makes it so so much harder.
A quick look at the school tables every year will tell you that, and please have a look!! whats so sad is that it has become generational now , your socialised into it.
I could go on and on and on and i'm sure someone will respond by saying that wait , we live in an open society were any child can go onto 3rd level etc etc but what are they getting socialised into??
Whats that saying?? ''show me a child at 7 and i'll show you the person they'll be''
IMO we all have to start looking beyond the small stuff and find a way to elect officials that will genuinely implement policies to fix whats really wrong with our society so that the days of this are over.
Just back to the op and another poster touched upon it . America now has more deaths per annum from legalized opiods than they do heroin , Purdue pharmaceuticals have been found out to have fudged there clinical trials re Oxycontin have you looked into that??
Have you asked yourself why there's over 40 MILLION PEOPLE on food stamps in America , I only hope you do wake up!!!!

I think you make a great point about being socialized into it I read something awhile back about ghettos in the states and how poor areas if left that why devolepet a mini culture around it and that was the norm kids grow up seeing there parents grandparents in these situation and the area full of dealers and adddicts and they devolep with that being normal with collecting welfare a career drinking /drugs a normality the answer is more then one or two government terms long it's a project that could take generations and a huge cost and an accetence that it will be abused at first for. Long time becasue that's the culture

AlekSmart

dd972 wrote: »

A very, entrenched class system wherein the sort of law abiding average Joe who's socially and economically between these people and the middle classes represents a much thinner layer of society compared to other countries.

Lack of political will and intent to improve the areas these people live, if you're unlucky enough to be born in them you're pretty much regarded as human trash by the state and the middle classes.

Drugs and Alcohol pandemic.

A self-perpetuating, dead-end infantile culture that based around being either a Jack-the-lad, a thug,(or maybe both) and having to have 3 kids by the age of 22.

Complete lack of boundaries, which actually works out positively for them in many respects, growing up believing you can do what the f**k you like creates this uninhibited aspect about them, I don't really see the anxiety about them that afflicts people who have to hold down jobs, pay mortgages, etc.

If you think about Dublin in relation to the rest of the country in terms of demographics, they probably stand out all the more, I've read that many of them are descended from a Famine influx into the slums of the city in the mid 1800's even that in it's own way renders them different. I've even met English born people with Irish parents who are more quintessentially 'Irish' than lower-class Dubliners in terms of connection with the parishes they originate from, the GAA, Church, etc.

Excellent response to the OP,and quite accurate too.

I'm not quite 100% on the "lack of Political will to improve the area's" bit however.
In my lifetime,I have known both the old and the new,in terms of Inner City area's with school pals who were actually lived in the likes of Henrietta Street, before it emerged on to the "historically important site" radar screen.

So too have I experienced the HUGE improvement in general living conditions for people relocated (Forcibly moved,to some) to new housing developments in the suburbs.

The choice,if you can term it that,was to remain living in squalor,in often condemned buildings,with shared toilet and washing facilities,overcrowded schools,no accessible open spaces OR to move out to the new estates with bathrooms and gardens,play areas,fully resourced schools,and new communities to get involved in.

We hear very little about the hundreds of thousands for whom that choice worked,and who,as a result became the vanguard of what allowed Ireland to become a Country which has punched way over it's weight in terms of European and World presence.

We do hear,almost unendingly,of the cases who either refused to make the choices,compromises,and perhaps sacrifices in order to avail of the new futures,or having made them,then decide to attack and destroy the new community fabric,from the inside.

This self-destructive,permanent victimhood mindset,and the inability of our Societal and Administrative structures to confront it remains the single greatest threat to Irelands future.
One can compare America and Ireland until doomsday,but to suggest that the average comparable American and Irish person would share basic socio political views is stretching it,in my opinion.
The constant calls for Irish Governments to get involved in the ordinary day to day lives of Citizens,would be strongly resisted in the United States of America,often by the very people who,it could be said,would gain most from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhYJS80MgYA

Each day,as I pass the huge reconstruction project of Dolphin House,and see the scale of improvement,I try to fast-forward another 10 years and wonder what scenario I will see then ?

I have to be optimistic,and so I will go with a vibrant,open and welcoming community,acceptant of outsiders and striving to improve it's outlook,however,I also have to refer to my pessimistic side and consider the alternative,traditional mindset.

As to the OP's question....

I'll go with dd972's line...

A self-perpetuating, dead-end infantile culture that based around being either a Jack-the-lad, a thug,(or maybe both) and having to have 3 kids by the age of 22.

22 would be at the top end of the scale.

wakka12

Mr.S wrote: »

wtf?

--

You notice 'knackers' and drug addicts because Dublin CC is compact & small. Our drug treatment clinics, inner-city council housing & homeless support centres are all located in the city centre near popular areas.

Other cities ship all of these outside their main areas, or have larger city centres, area's where generally only addicts go etc. In Dublin, it's just all in the same area, with tourists, offices etc in the same vicinity.

I wouldn't say there are more addicts etc in Dublin compared to other major cities, we just notice it more where as other cities hide them away.

Which method is better? the methodone clinics should be in accesible areas just outside the CBD. Not smack bang in the central city core, somewhere around the canals. Nowhere specific but I think that distance is ideal and best for everyone .

wakka12

Simply massive tracts of social housing within the city centre core. i dont know why, I havnt seen it anywhere else Ive ever visited. Or maybe other countries social housing is less instantly obvious as social housing. But yeh, huge amounts of the old georgian city were demolished to put up block after block of horrid looking social housing. I dont know why theyre still there, they should really be made into normal looking apartment complexes with mixes of paid homes and social houses with retail units at ground floor

Some of the most important,central land with extremely high economic potential shouldnt be given over to social housing. St patricks church, one of the countrys biggest tourist attractions st patricks church, is literally surrounded by social housing. Im not advocating moving these people out to suburbs and making slums. But they dont need to live in such central areas. Places like rathmines or harolds cross are perfect distance as they are within walking distance to cbd as well. But yeh it needs to change.

eduzzino5

volono wrote: »

no luck eduzzino no ?? usually travelling , experiencing different cultures etc, opens the mind obviously not in your case , no one is born a knacker.
Where you born a snob?? like i said in a previous post look into the reasons for it and make an informed decision on why yourself , wake up

Such an amazing contribution! What do you think I'm doing? I'm asking because I don't know, if you feel touched by my thread, just close the browser and sure somewhere else dude!

Stoner

In some cities in the states they pick up the drug users and drive them away from the centre, there are zones and tourist spots they need stay out of.

San Francisco about 10 years ago was terrible, but they've addressed that issue to a large degree.

However it's a tactic of literally kicking the can down the road.

Americans seem at peace with having areas where living conditions are terrible, they drop the addicts off in these spots, nobody of note lives there. Locals simply don't go there, middle-class Americans are terrified of them, tourists seldom see them.

Get a bus from NY to Boston and you'll see what I mean.

Wanderer78

Very difficult questions op, but here's my answer:

These are the forgotten, people with highly complex issues such as mental health issues, behavioural problems, personality disorders, complex disabilities including learning disabilities etc etc. We have decided it's best to largely ignore these types of issues in our society, but it's also important to note, we ain't the only country doing it. By ignoring these issues, we create reactive systems of dealing with them, such as methadone clinics etc, and we believe by putting many of these individuals into institutions such as our prison systems etc, solves these complex issues, but it strangely resembles an 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality!

I'm sure they're other very good reasons why explained earlier and more to come, by others. Hope you enjoy your time here.

judeboy101

Purple Mountain wrote: »

You picked up the lingo fairly quickly!

He doesn't know about scrotes yet

Jawgap

Actually, I believe the correct terms is skangers or at a push scobies......

.....a few years ago the HSE made the decision to centralised the methadone / rehab clinics and 'bring them in' from the suburbs......as a result, the junkies came in to town, then the dealers, then the junkies who weren't on methadone etc.....

Foweva Awone

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Sorry, I was just wondering if junkies are born a family of junkies hence they grow up like that or if they are normal lads that after taking drugs start to wonder around the city yelling at people, asking for change and getting into fights.

Just as a side note: I do not want to upset anyone and I do apologise if my post looks racist/vulgar. I use the word "knackers" as I feel most of Irish people would use it, if there is a more appropriate word I'm happy to use it

Addicts, maybe? Or heroin addicts, if that's what you mean specifically?

I would consider "junkies" to refer to people with a heroin addiction, but it's an offensive term, and not one I'd ever use. (I have close friends who are heroin/methodone addicts in recovery.)

To me, chavs/knackers/scumbags would be people with ASB issues - whether drugs are involved, or not. Again, though, not words I'd ever use myself.

volono

testaccount123 wrote: »

Pathetic thread

Absolutely fabulous contribution well done you!!!:):):)

testaccount123

Pathetic thread

volono

it's not about upsetting people the problem being the replies you'll get are others biased opinions (myself included) i tried to include a couple of very small reasons on why i think the problem is there but ultimately its down to yourself to look into it all you can and make your own conclusions

volono

no luck eduzzino no ?? usually travelling , experiencing different cultures etc, opens the mind obviously not in your case , no one is born a knacker.
Where you born a snob?? like i said in a previous post look into the reasons for it and make an informed decision on why yourself , wake up

eduzzino5

volono wrote: »

eduzzino will you define a ''knacker'' and ''born a knacker''

Sorry, I was just wondering if junkies are born a family of junkies hence they grow up like that or if they are normal lads that after taking drugs start to wonder around the city yelling at people, asking for change and getting into fights.

Just as a side note: I do not want to upset anyone and I do apologise if my post looks racist/vulgar. I use the word "knackers" as I feel most of Irish people would use it, if there is a more appropriate word I'm happy to use it

volono

eduzzino will you define a ''knacker'' and ''born a knacker''

eduzzino5

Donal55 wrote: »

Not being defensive in my post. Just pointing out the naivety of one coming from the states to here and seeing the same problems.

Did I say there are no knackers in the states? Nope, I didn't. And before you ask me, I'm Irish - just been living in the states for a while. Now I came back and I see so many knackers in Dublin, even in very central places like the spire and I was wondering why and where these people come from (they are born as knackers from a junkies' family or they are "normal" lads and because of the drug become like that?)

volono

dd972 Dublin has and always will be completely different than the rest of the country regarding parishes etc. i could name 8/10 different gaa clubs in my local enough vicinity and I've never even picked a gaa ball up in my life. Completely different than living in a town down the country ,that's another problem we have , localism /parish pump politics
The reason the English you know are more Irish than 'those Dubliners' well maybe because their parents had to leave here because they had f all and because of that they were all the more irish and brought their kids up to be extremely proud of their heritage , you only have to have relations in England /America to realise that.
To sheila , absolute moronic thing to say and least we forget millionaires get child allowance money from the state every month too

dd972

A very, entrenched class system wherein the sort of law abiding average Joe who's socially and economically between these people and the middle classes represents a much thinner layer of society compared to other countries.

Lack of political will and intent to improve the areas these people live, if you're unlucky enough to be born in them you're pretty much regarded as human trash by the state and the middle classes.

Drugs and Alcohol pandemic.

A self-perpetuating, dead-end infantile culture that based around being either a Jack-the-lad, a thug,(or maybe both) and having to have 3 kids by the age of 22.

Complete lack of boundaries, which actually works out positively for them in many respects, growing up believing you can do what the f**k you like creates this uninhibited aspect about them, I don't really see the anxiety about them that afflicts people who have to hold down jobs, pay mortgages, etc.

If you think about Dublin in relation to the rest of the country in terms of demographics, they probably stand out all the more, I've read that many of them are descended from a Famine influx into the slums of the city in the mid 1800's even that in it's own way renders them different. I've even met English born people with Irish parents who are more quintessentially 'Irish' than lower-class Dubliners in terms of connection with the parishes they originate from, the GAA, Church, etc.

worded

Some are very inciteful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-UjRhP_dbI&sns=em