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Child Item

Primetime Special: Nightmare to let

philstar

RTÉ Investigates spent six months examining standards in the private rental sector. Undercover researchers found dangerously overcrowded accommodation and sub-standard buildings with multiple fire safety breaches. Three multiple occupancy buildings with more than 120 tenants have since been closed after inspection by Dublin Fire Brigade.

There was a 100% failure rate in four districts - Kilkenny, Louth, Offaly, Limerick city and county.

Anyone watch it last night? was pretty disgusting the way all those people were crammed into those buildings..like something from Dickensian times...some unscrupulous landlords out there taking advantage of how desperate some people are for accommodation.

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Wurly

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

/thread

We all want things to change but expect others to change, not ourselves!

erica74

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

About the same amount of people who go out and march about the state of our healthcare system.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Beta Ray Bill

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

Did that this morning.

Normally I wouldn't be arsed but the situation is out of control at this stage.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

i wouldnt be anything to do with the fact, the idea of 'the market' is actually a construct, in which we ve all been indoctrinated by for many decades including our politicians. i now believe is doesnt actually matter who you vote in, and its also possible we have opened pandora's box in relation to macroeconomic theory.

yes you are correct that many governments have most certainly 'interfered' with the market and made it much worse, but when you ve been indoctrinated with what i can only simply call, 'bull**** economic theory', thats gonna happen. its time for us to move on from the 'efficient market hypothesis, because, well, its simply not all that efficient with providing us with what we actually need, and you can stick this idea of equilibrium where the sun doesnt shine to, and send it on its way to la la land.

oh yes, you conveniently left out the vital part our financial sector plays in regards property, and more or less pointed the finger at, 'them politicians'!:rolleyes: maybe we should reduce our government's input in 'the market', and allow the market forces of supply and demand and blah blah blah blah blah!

interesting debate on our property market:

https://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/1339/134569/0/David-McWilliams-Ireland

conorhal

My bet is that not one of the shocked and outraged in the establishment will call for the obvious solution to this specific problem and deal with it at source, which shutting down about 50% of the language schools in Dublin.
You know which ones too and they're all over the place, the seedy, shabby looking dumps with impressive signs tacked onto the front of them like 'Dublin International College of Great Engrish Lurning and Busyness'.
The vast majority of those in last nights program were English language students and migrant workers.
This is the flip side of the 'why are Irish people too lazy to do menial jobs' argument, because they don't fancy living likes their great grandparents in Victorian tenements as slaves in all but name.

Timothy Bryce

I’m a private landlord since 2007, more-so by accident than anything else. I was really shocked last night to see the state of the some of the properties passing for rental accommodation these days. I consider myself a decent landlord, I charge the tenant a fair price and any time there's an issue I make sure it's sorted with a degree of urgency. They're good tenants and I'd like to keep them in place.

The practices uncovered by PT I feel are a product of some really poor decisions around legislation since the crash in 2008.

Tightening up on the legislation around bedsits effectively pushed tenants out of properties at the very bottom of the market. I viewed a house with a colleague in central Dublin for sale in 2014 - there were 12 bedsits and he was looking to buy it to convert into a large family home. From speaking with a couple of the tenants, they were either moving back to their parents (students) or in the case of 2 foreign nationals, were considering hostels. Just one example, but one house housing 12 people all needed to make alternative arrangements regarding their accomodation. Where did the legislators expect these people to go?

Secondly, I think the treatment of some genuine private landlords by the Revenue has driven them out of the market. I for one am considering my exit; I’d love to hang onto it but it’s a financial noose around my neck. Since 2015 the rent has just about covered the mortgage, but it’s loss making after management fees. I’d still probably suck up that expense given I’d own the asset over time, if I wasn’t asked to pay 50% tax on the rent I receive. There are no profits only losses, but I still have to cover these payments every year out of my own already taxed PAYE income.

The homeless/housing/rental crisis hasn’t appeared out of thin air, decent private landlords have been driven out of the market leaving large funds/ETF's and unscrupulous characters to operate in the market. If I wanted to invest money in 2017, the last place I’d look would be on a rental property in Ireland. Until significant inroads are made in making the Irish rental business a semi-worthwhile investment, practices such as those on in Crumlin will continue, long after the outrage from the PT piece has died away.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Beta Ray Bill

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

I for one am considering my exit; I’d love to hang onto it but it’s a financial noose around my neck. Since 2015 the rent has just about covered the mortgage, but it’s loss making after management fees. I’d still probably suck up that expense given I’d own the asset over time, if I wasn’t asked to pay 50% tax on the rent I receive. There are no profits only losses, but I still have to cover these payments every year out of my own already taxed PAYE income.

^^^ This ^^^

People with money, cannot be expected to invest their money into a property to rent out to people with less money at a loss to themselves.

Piece in bold is crazy. It's all down to the f**king banks (AGAIN!). Mortgage rates in Ireland are the highest in Europe.
Bank's are continuously shafting mortgage holders.

The Banks and Politicians need to get their head out of the clouds and sort this.

I for one would not invest in a property to rent out, unless I had at least 50% of the value of that property as a deposit.
And guess what!!!!??? The Banks won't give you a mortgage for less than 50% of the value of that property because "They don't make enough money on it / Can't repo it if things go to sh*t"

P*sstake.

Odhinn

cantdecide wrote: »

Wouldn't you love to stand in the Dáil and ask all those who could reasonably be referred to as a landlord to raise their hand.

They won't let you in if you're armed with a machine gun. Tis true.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

...and again, you re conveniently excluding the involvement of the financial sector in leading us to this point, i.e. the problem isnt just with what you have mentioned, of which i actually agree to a point. our political system has probably over reacted to the crash in ways, and i will agree with david mcwilliams from the program i posted, we re now waiting for the 'plugs', particularly in relation to the financial sector, to be uncorked, to potentially lead us back into another credit bubble as before. as you mentioned, in relation to property owners, our current housing policies are actually failing most property owners and renters. its what id call, a cluster****!

ChikiChiki

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

DCC caught out here to. Not bothering to follow up inspections. Lazy clowns obviously have bigger issues such as debating flying the Catalan flag.

cherryghost

I'm just surprised RTE did something productive for once.

retro:electro

Pure and utter greed in its most transparent form. Disgraceful. The landlord whose house was featured at the end made sure he wasn't stuck for space anyway.
I wouldn't sleep at night if I was the one responsible for those living conditions.

whisky_galore

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's the problem, in a nutshell.
The people that have a stake in Irish society will always get heard.

No-one seems to get as invested about this issue compared to say all the marches and associated ranting and raving about abortion. I think it was particularly telling when Sean Moncrieff ran pieces about homelessness/accom. crisis and abortion...there was something paltry, like a half-doz responses from the listeners on housing but people were at it hammer and tongs about abortion into the following morning. :rolleyes:

__..__

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

DCC caught out here to. Not bothering to follow up inspections. Lazy clowns obviously have bigger issues such as debating flying the Catalan flag.

They are not inspecting such properties on purpose. When they find these plans es they would have to shut them down, evicting the tenants thereby increasing the homeless problem.
It is not in their interests at all to inspect.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

__..__ wrote: »

They are not inspecting such properties on purpose. When they find these plans es they would have to shut them down, evicting the tenants thereby increasing the homeless problem.
It is not in their interests at all to inspect.

Sadly, I suspect that could be true.

padd b1975

cantdecide wrote: »

I'd wager there are plenty more who are landlords indirectly through investments holding companies.

You could say that about anyone with a private pension.

padd b1975

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

DCC caught out here to. Not bothering to follow up inspections. Lazy clowns obviously have bigger issues such as debating flying the Catalan flag.

That's what you get with a leftie majority, fiddling while Rome burns.

fryup

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

ah come now, it could happen anywhere in any country...have you ever watched slum landlords on channel 5 ? ...that sort of thing is rampant in the uk

Kermit.de.frog

Well done on the investigation by RTE.

I'd argue the free market needs to take it's course here.

State intervention is never the answer.

Lackey

Calls for Owen Keegan of DCC to resign

josip

Did anyone recognise what part of Kilkenny Mr O'Neill the landlord lives in?
I would imagine he's none too pleased this morning that his neighbours know about his slum business.

__..__

Lackey wrote: »

Calls for Owen Keegan of DCC to resign

God i hope so.

scopper

Did they mention this in the doc? Just in case...https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/my-tooth-ended-up-inside-my-lip-rickshaw-crash-victims-warn-people-of-the-potential-dangers-35287674.html

I'm doing some digging and it looks like these guys are networked into all sorts of wild stuff.

Grandeeod

josip wrote: »

Did anyone recognise what part of Kilkenny Mr O'Neill the landlord lives in?
I would imagine he's none too pleased this morning that his neighbours know about his slum business.

Fook him. Greedy bollocks.

Wanderer78

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Well done on the investigation by RTE.

I'd argue the free market needs to take it's course here.

State intervention is never the answer.

and id argue, 'the market' is a construct, whereby there is little or no evidence that it actually is capable of providing us with what we actually need, in this case, housing. we have been trying to shoehorn this microeconomic theory into the macro-economic world, and its having devastating effects. this is why i regularly use the term, 'the free-for-all market' when speaking about it as, it encourages, even sometimes forces deregulation in all its meaning, virtually creating a wild west in relation to markets such as housing. its time for us to move on from it as it has caused enough damage to our societies, yes, housing is a common problem in countries that have embraced this construct.

Spanish Eyes

Why so many Brazilians here.... ah we have a visa arrangement.

There could be an ESTA type application for visiting students (they are not on holliers), where you have to enter the name, address, PPSN, RTB reference of your landlord, otherwise you don't get in. You must have accommodation sorted before arrival and the information about your accommodation is passed to Revenue and/or the RTB to see if it is genuine.

Some chance.

__..__

Wanderer78 wrote: »

and id argue, 'the market' is a construct, whereby there is little or no evidence that it actually is capable of providing us with what we actually need, in this case, housing. we have been trying to shoehorn this microeconomic theory into the macro-economic world, and its having devastating effects. this is why i regularly use the term, 'the free-for-all market' when speaking about it as, it encourages, even sometimes forces deregulation in all its meaning, virtually creating a wild west in relation to markets such as housing. its time for us to move on from it as it has caused enough damage to our societies, yes, housing is a common problem in countries that have embraced this construct.

Oh Jesus.

Wanderer78

__..__ wrote: »

Oh Jesus.

ive been called worse:D