Duanington wrote: » Thanks, I wasn't sure - so in a sport where altitude\warm weather training is the norm...while training for DCM, you can only take part in that if you've got the right colour passport.
Duanington wrote: » I meant leave the country for altitude training\warm weather training....which I assume is what broke Freddy's 6 months up ( could be wrong there of course)
Duanington wrote: » Thanks, I wasn't sure - so in a sport where altitude\warm weather training is the norm...while training for DCM, you can only take part in that if you've got the right colour passport. What a strange mess this really is - while I thought GOH's comments after the race took away from his own (incredible) performance, this whole fiasco is damaging and embarrassing
ted1 wrote: » It’s a National title. There’s a clue in the name. Trying to imply racism is childish and pathetic, there’s plenty of people of different races who are Irish Nationals
The Bin Man wrote: » If that's the case, then GOH should be national champion (according to the rules).
Chivito550 wrote: » The way I look at it, being Irish champion is not the same as representing Ireland in international competition. If you reside in Ireland and compete for an Irish club, then you are part of the Irish athletics community and deserve a chance to compete in the national championships.
TFBubendorfer wrote: » I'd agree with that (then again, I would) but there are plenty of people who don't, to the point where a non-native athlete can get personal abuse for running in an Irish championship.
Krusty_Clown wrote: » Predictably, all results from Sunday (admittedly provisional) have disappeared from the AAI website, while they figure out how the hell they are going to work out who came where in the national and team results.<grabs popcorn - waits for next sh1tstorm>.
ThisRegard wrote: » You're going to the extreme there. I don't agree with the 6 month rule, but it's nothing to do with race or nationality. People who abuse a "non-native" athlete will abuse anyone for not being Irish, the fact they may be running in the Irish Championship is just an excuse to do so.
RayCun wrote: » I don't think the rule is consistent or difficult to apply - "6 months unbroken residence before the competition" is not ambiguous. I don't think it's a great rule, too short a period while also too strict, but it is clear. Something like the ordinarily resident definition used for tax, would be better. Longer period of residence required, but gaps allowed.
TFBubendorfer wrote: » I'm not going to the extreme, I am speaking from experience.
Duanington wrote: » But the rule is surely bigger than one line ? "6 months unbroken residence before the competition" looks pretty straightforward on the face of it....but then we know 2 of the top 3 finishers didn't meet that criteria ( by travelling abroad for training...which is the norm in this sport, in this country).....which is ok because they're Irish citizens. That's inconsistent straight away, it applies to one set of athletes and not another
Duanington wrote: » That's inconsistent straight away, it applies to one set of athletes and not another
ThisRegard wrote: » It also leaves open the possibility for anyone to come over, such as on work placement, become champion and head home shortly after never to return.
RayCun wrote: » That's still not really ambiguous You can qualify by being eligible for an Irish passport. If you're not eligible for an Irish passport, you can qualify by living in Ireland for the 6 months before the race. "For an athlete to be either a Title Holder/Medallist ( to be defined as referring to top 3 finishers or top 3 winning team members , in track and field - outdoor and/or indoor - cross country or road ) and/or the holder of a Championship Record (individual or team), the athlete must be a holder of, or be eligible to hold, an Irish passport and/or must reside on the island of Ireland ( for a minimum of 6 consecutive months immediately prior to the relevant Championships) and must be a member of an affiliated club on the island of Ireland." It's a short checklist
RayCun wrote: » "For an athlete to be either a Title Holder/Medallist ( to be defined as referring to top 3 finishers or top 3 winning team members , in track and field - outdoor and/or indoor - cross country or road ) and/or the holder of a Championship Record (individual or team), the athlete must be a holder of, or be eligible to hold, an Irish passport and/or must reside on the island of Ireland ( for a minimum of 6 consecutive months immediately prior to the relevant Championships) and must be a member of an affiliated club on the island of Ireland." It's a short checklist
Chivito550 wrote: » Funny thing with all this is that if Freddy came second he’d keep his silver medal as these “rules” only apply to national title holder. By winning he ends up with nothing, and allows the 4th place runner (Scullion) to take bronze (who would have ended up with nothing had Freddy been 2nd. What a mess. GOH should be DQed too for breaking the rules. If he can wear what he likes, then we all can too.
Duanington wrote: » Not ambiguous maybe but it is certainly inconsistent, if I'm hoping to compete under the 6 months residency rule, I can't travel somewhere abroad to train at altitude for a couple of weeks ? While anyone else competing can?
Chivito550 wrote: » Funny thing with all this is that if Freddy came second he’d keep his silver medal as these “rules” only apply to national title holder. By winning he ends up with nothing, and allows the 4th place runner (Scullion) to take bronze (who would have ended up with nothing had Freddy been 2nd.
RayCun wrote: » I don't think that is really inconsistent. If you want to be eligible under the 6 month residency rule, then you have to meet the criterion of being continuously resident for 6 months. That's what being eligible under that rule means! If you are meeting the eligibility requirements some other way, then you have to meet the eligibility requirements in a different way. It's like saying there the process of getting a place for London marathon is inconsistent, because you can get a championship entry OR a GFA OR a lottery place OR a charity place, and they don't all have the same requirements.
Chivito550 wrote: » What about an Australian who is on a sponsored work visa to live in Ireland for example? Say he/she has lived here for a year and a half or so, heavily involved in Irish athletics (like I was with Australian athletics when I lived over there). Should this person be ineligible for a championship because he/she went home for Christmas or a sibling's wedding? Or because he/she has a life and fancied a weekend in London to watch Roger Federer on Centre Court?
RayCun wrote: » Yes. Because they were not continuously resident in Ireland for the 6 months prior to the competition. If you don't like the rule, put a motion forward to Congress to change it. (which is the thing that always annoys me about these discussions. These rules didn't fall out of the sky, they were voted on by the club members who bothered their arses to go to meetings. Think things should be done differently? Well, if you're an Athletics Ireland member, the way is open for you to change things!)
Murph_D wrote: » Is that the actual wording in the changed rules, Ray? Can you post or link to the actual document? At least it clears up the team scorer question.
Chivito550 wrote: » It's utterly laughable stuff. If they want to make it simple, they should state that anybody on a work or student visa lasting 6 months or more are eligible. It's incredibly backwards to not allow somebody to leave the country for a few days. What if there was a family bereavement in an athlete's home country? Also how would this stand up under EU law. Can a French person living here 7 years not go home for a weekend before a championship? Regarding the AGM, which would be a perfect opportunity to discuss these motions, not everyone can go to that. I looked into going last time and wasn't allowed to.
