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Are we over the annual poppy thread?

evolving_doors

Do we need it anymore, is it time to allow Irish people to wear whatever they want?

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markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Great....

And we all know it.

.....

Eh, no we don't.

Its just a poppy. Wear one if you want, don't if you don't want to. Simple, most people don't care and those that do are usually arseholes who like to tell others what to do.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Over 30+ million are made a year.

But 100's of thousands are not wearing them in the north, which is what you claimed.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Over 30+ million are made a year.

But 100's of thousands are not wearing them in the north, which is what you claimed.

If they constantly sold house to house, supermarkets with open sales etc, then it's not that huge a number.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

If they constantly sold house to house, supermarkets with open sales etc, then it's not that huge a number.

People buying multiples.
There is no accurate way to say how many support this.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

If you do, make sure it's public as it's always handy to take down names. hehe.

to be the poppy wearers. Apologies if I omitted one of the usual suspects from the roll of honour.

Sorry, but where did I say I wear a poppy?

[Deleted User]

markodaly wrote: »

Its just a poppy.

Of course it is, which explains why you're all so defensive about wearing it and insist that everybody on your British tv programmes at this time of year must wear it. Also, the swastika is just the swastika. Any other truisms?

backspin.

I'm sure James McClean is glad to see this time of year again... not.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it is, which explains why you're all so defensive about wearing it and insist that everybody on your British tv programmes at this time of year must wear it. Also, the swastika is just the swastika. Any other truisms?

Not at all.....the decision to wear it must be a matter of personal choice and shouldn't be insisted upon.

If anything, the compulsive effort is either those saying it shouldn't be worn, hence their denigrating, insulting, recycled and, somewhat, childish jibes suggesting that somehow someone is less Irish for either wearing it, or not really caring whether someone wears it or not.

[Deleted User]

Jawgap wrote: »

If anything, the compulsive effort is either those saying it shouldn't be worn, hence their denigrating, insulting, recycled and, somewhat, childish jibes suggesting that somehow someone is less Irish for either wearing it, or not really caring whether someone wears it or not.

Given that the people who they are commemorating were the very people responsible for the extirpation of the Irish and their culture/British colonisation of Ireland, one is very much on safe ground to conclude that somebody glorifying those people is definitely less Irish than Irish people who oppose the subjugation of the Irish that the British Empire/state has always stood for in this country.

It's patently false to contend that supporters of the colonial occupier are as Irish as those who support the native forces of resistance. PC horseshíte peddled by the John Brutons/Kevin Myers/Sunday Independent and other apologists for the British Empire.

[Deleted User]

Jawgap wrote: »

Not at all.....the decision to wear it must be a matter of personal choice and shouldn't be insisted upon.

No matter who they are I hope......

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Deleted User wrote: »

Given that the people who they are commemorating were the very people responsible for the extirpation of the Irish and their culture/British colonisation of Ireland, one is very much on safe ground to conclude that somebody glorifying those people is definitely less Irish than Irish people who oppose the subjugation of the Irish that the British Empire/state has always stood for in this country.

It's patently false to contend that supporters of the colonial occupier are as Irish as those who support the native forces of resistance. PC horseshíte peddled by the John Brutons/Kevin Myers/Sunday Independent and other apologists for the British Empire.

Oh sweet Lord! I despair for this country at times.

Bit of a chip there???? What about those Scandinavians they owe us so much for the violent attacks on Ireland too. Barbary pirate attacks by those Algerians.......

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If someone wants to wear a poppy, then fine. If they don't want to, then fine. Nobody should feel forced to wear one or be ridiculed for not wearing one and nobody should be ridiculed for wearing one either.

McMurphy

Gibson Wide Matrix wrote: »

If someone wants to wear a poppy, then fine. If they don't want to, then fine. Nobody should feel forced to wear one or be ridiculed for not wearing one and nobody should be ridiculed for wearing one either.

Pretty much this.

And I would extend it to the Easter Lilly too.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Pretty much this.

And I would extend it to the Easter Lilly too.

Absolutely. I thought that as I was posting but didn't want to drag the thread into pro and anti Easter Lilly nonsense too.

not yet

Mutant z wrote: »

No self respecting Irish person should have anything to do with this, i salute James McClean for refusing to pander to the poppy fascists.

When they start wearing the Easter Lily McCarthy will wear a poppy..

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it is, which explains why you're all so defensive about wearing it and insist that everybody on your British tv programmes at this time of year must wear it. Also, the swastika is just the swastika. Any other truisms?

Erm, I think you missed my point where I said that people who really care that you do or don't wear it are arseholes.

Nobody here as far as I know insist that people wear it. Ireland is not the BBC or the FA. What we are seeing though is that people getting mightly upset about it, like yourself.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Given that the people who they are commemorating were the very people responsible for the extirpation of the Irish and their culture/British colonisation of Ireland, one is very much on safe ground to conclude that somebody glorifying those people is definitely less Irish than Irish people who oppose the subjugation of the Irish that the British Empire/state has always stood for in this country.

It's patently false to contend that supporters of the colonial occupier are as Irish as those who support the native forces of resistance. PC horseshíte peddled by the John Brutons/Kevin Myers/Sunday Independent and other apologists for the British Empire.

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A Dub in Glasgo

I have yet to see anyone selling the poppy thus far in Glasgow and yet you see the TV panelists and celebs tripping over themselves to demonstrate they wear one...

[Deleted User]

Gibson Wide Matrix wrote: »

What about those Scandinavians they owe us so much for the violent attacks on Ireland too. Barbary pirate attacks by those Algerians.......

Are you for real? These comparisons are as hackneyed as they are trite - as if a Scandinavian state is occupying a part of Ireland in 2017 with a group of self-defined "Scandinavian" settler-colonialists in 2017 glorifying centuries of Scandinavian occupation, or as if we are speaking a Scandinavian language. I'm not sure what part of the human brain this analogy could possibly be considered intelligent.

Despite its innate speciousness, the analogy is invariably proffered by people who are quite keen to get us to accept British rule today as legitimate and to forget what it rests upon. We must forget their being bastards, while accepting their right to remember being bastards to us as glorious, heroic and all those other words.

Sure "it's only the past" all the British apologists tell us, when they're commemorating/rubbing our faces in it but "It's time to move on" they say when we object. Yes, that's precisely the mentality right there. Precisely.

And how nice of you to nail your colours to the "I wish those Paddys would forget everything we don't want them to remember, and remember all the things we want them to remember" mast.

NIMAN

Gibson Wide Matrix wrote: »

If someone wants to wear a poppy, then fine. If they don't want to, then fine. Nobody should feel forced to wear one or be ridiculed for not wearing one and nobody should be ridiculed for wearing one either.

Pity the British media wouldn't have this attitude.

prinzeugen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I have yet to see anyone selling the poppy thus far in Glasgow and yet you see the TV panelists and celebs tripping over themselves to demonstrate they wear one...

That is because they got a bad reputation in the late 90's when people realized that 20% or so of the money raised in Scotland was going to some battered wifes charity not ex servicemen or their families.

The lack of poppies in Scotland is not political. Its because people remember that con so are wary of giving money to them now.

NIMAN

They have been on display on the Beeb for about a week, yet Remembrance Sunday is over a fortnight away.

[Deleted User]

markodaly wrote: »

...What we are seeing though is that people getting mightly upset about it, like yourself.

That you are evidently upset that people are apparently upset doesn't make you appear more rational, you know.

Furthermore, contending that a profoundly tribal symbol that commemorates/glorifies the deeds of the servants of the British Empire is harmless and apolitical is, at very best, disingenuous. It's an implicitly divisive commemoration no matter how much you might wish it were otherwise.

I doubt any of the poppy wearers would be as understanding of commemorations by supporters of the Red Army in Ukraine, the Wehrmacht in the USSR or the Chinese PLA in Tibet (to take three examples). But servants of the British Empire that controlled 25% of this planet? Oh, that should get a free pass on the same moral assessments entirely because the crimes were done by British soldiers.

Kermit.de.frog

Ireland is a Republic. Why would we be commemorating another country's fallen soldiers with any symbols?

It in no way effects me what UK presenters wear. They are entitled to commemorate as they see fit.

Don't see what the issue is.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

No matter who they are I hope......

Actually, the words I quoted and you repeated are a lift from a British Legion/PoppyScotland article on the issue. The main organisers see it as a matter of personal choice, they can't control what others do.

Poppy "fascists" are just as wrong as anti-poppy "fascists" - if people want to wear it or not let them get on with it.

A Dub in Glasgo

prinzeugen wrote: »

That is because they got a bad reputation in the late 90's when people realized that 20% or so of the money raised in Scotland was going to some battered wifes charity not ex servicemen or their families.

The lack of poppies in Scotland is not political. Its because people remember that con so are wary of giving money to them now.

More likely to be the fact that it is not even Halloween yet

I would fully expect to see the sellers out in Glasgow Central station next week

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you for real? These comparisons are as hackneyed as they are trite - as if a Scandinavian state is occupying a part of Ireland in 2017 with a group of self-defined "Scandinavian" settler-colonialists in 2017 glorifying centuries of Scandinavian occupation, or as if we are speaking a Scandinavian language. I'm not sure what part of the human brain this analogy could possibly be considered intelligent.

Despite its innate speciousness, the analogy is invariably proffered by people who are quite keen to get us to accept British rule today as legitimate and to forget what it rests upon. We must forget their being bastards, while accepting their right to remember being bastards to us as glorious, heroic and all those other words.

Sure "it's only the past" all the British apologists tell us, when they're commemorating/rubbing our faces in it but "It's time to move on" they say when we object. Yes, that's precisely the mentality right there. Precisely.

And how nice of you to nail your colours to the "I wish those Paddys would forget everything we don't want them to remember, and remember all the things we want them to remember" mast.

What utter unadulterated hogwash. You saw what you wanted to see. You could not be more wrong. You have no idea what my political affiliations are and I suspect I have suffered more from the British presence on this island than you have. But I still despair for our country with that type of attitude.

FrancieBrady

Gibson Wide Matrix wrote: »

What utter unadulterated hogwash. You saw what you wanted to see. You could not be more wrong. You have no idea what my political affiliations are and I suspect I have suffered more from the British presence on this island than you have. But I still despair for our country with that type of attitude.

So tell us from the point of view of someone 'who has suffered more' what is hogwash about it?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So tell us from the point of view of someone 'who has suffered more' what is hogwash about it?

I'm not going to even my wit to you but I was referring to the assumption made of "British Apologists" and my "nailing colours to the mast" or being "keen to get us to accept British rule". Absolute bile without cause, proof, or truth.

munsterlegend

I see where Northern Ireland players will be now be wearing a poppy for their play off. Yet they still wonder why certain players declare for the Republic. You would have to wonder what goes on in the thinking of the Irish FA if they are really trying to be an inclusive organisation to both sides of the community.