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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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Jump_In_Jack

Erik Shin wrote: »

Check out @sportsbeefpod’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/sportsbeefpod/status/924339507528372231?s=08

This did give me a laugh I have to admit

No need for this type of rubbish but if that had been Earls/Zebo they would have had the pace to get it down in the corner, and Stockdale/Bowe would have had the strength/power to bulldoze into the corner.
Fact is that Dave made a snap decision NOT to have a go.
Reviewing the tape that was a winger's bread and butter, should have gone for it whether it would have resulted in a lineout or not.
If it were the last play of the game and Ireland were in that position against a good team and needed a score to seal it I'd rather have Stockdale there to finish it.

.ak

Erik Shin wrote: »

It would have been a piece of piss for a true winger to back himself and beat Pitau there...
People were making excuses one way when Zebo scored against TOH...excuses going the other way now?!....the mind boggles at the gymnastics people try to protect a poor play.

Can't tell if you're being genuine...

Nobody beats Piatau there, not Zebo, not Linford Christie, nobody. Piatau is an all black with the best defender in the world outside him. There's no room and Piatau has the space cut off.

.ak

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

No need for this type of rubbish but if that had been Earls/Zebo they would have had the pace to get it down in the corner, and Stockdale/Bowe would have had the strength/power to bulldoze into the corner.
Fact is that Dave made a snap decision NOT to have a go.
Reviewing the tape that was a winger's bread and butter, should have gone for it whether it would have resulted in a lineout or not.
If it were the last play of the game and Ireland were in that position against a good team and needed a score to seal it I'd rather have Stockdale there to finish it.

Absolutely not. In a tight game possession is massive. Staying in touch is a winger's gospel there.

Jump_In_Jack

.ak wrote: »

Can't tell if you're being genuine...

Nobody beats Piatau there, not Zebo, not Linford Christie, nobody. Piatau is an all black with the best defender in the world outside him. There's no room and Piatau has the space cut off.

There's certainly enough space to get in.

awec

The still frame is really misleading. By the time Kearney gets the ball Piutau is across and comfortably has the outside covered. He even runs across with his arms out as if to say he has this covered, inviting Kearney to try it on the outside.

DK isn't going to bounce Piutau to get out of a tackle. If it was Aaron Cairns or someone there then yes, he should have a go, but in this case he made the right decision.

Erik Shin

.ak wrote: »

Can't tell if you're being genuine...

Nobody beats Piatau there, not Zebo, not Linford Christie, nobody. Piatau is an all black with the best defender in the world outside him. There's no room and Piatau has the space cut off.

Any winger should have backed himself there, 100% imo

irishbucsfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

No need for this type of rubbish but if that had been Earls/Zebo they would have had the pace to get it down in the corner, and Stockdale/Bowe would have had the strength/power to bulldoze into the corner.
Fact is that Dave made a snap decision NOT to have a go.
Reviewing the tape that was a winger's bread and butter, should have gone for it whether it would have resulted in a lineout or not.
If it were the last play of the game and Ireland were in that position against a good team and needed a score to seal it I'd rather have Stockdale there to finish it.

No. Earls/Zebo do not have the pace to beat Charles Piutau on the outside from a standing start. And Stockdale/Bowe do not have the strength to Charles Piutau.

If it was Piutau against any of our lads then maybe. But there you go, he's world class at his best.

Bread and butter stuff is recognising that, making as much ground as possible and recycling.

Jump_In_Jack

.ak wrote: »

Absolutely not. In a tight game possession is massive. Staying in touch is a winger's gospel there.

A winger should score that.

.ak

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

There's certainly enough space to get in.

There's not, Piatau has hands on him 5 meters out if he runs straight. Watch the video, not the still.

Former Former

Plays like that are the reason why Dave K is always picked whenever he's fit.

Tweets like that and some of the posts here are the reason his selection is always so controversial.

There's a complete disconnect in understanding between the fan who wants entertainment and the coach who wants results. Between the guys who expect players like Gilroy, Healy or TOH to feature and convince themselves that "the Kearneys" are finished and those who seem to know what Joe wants.

I'm bemused that we're four years into Joe's tenure and so many people still haven't grasped this.

.ak

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

A winger should score that.

Ah stop. No winger is making that, guarantee you. If it was someone other than Piatau who would buy a dummy shirk then maybe.

Jump_In_Jack

awec wrote: »

The still frame is really misleading. By the time Kearney gets the ball Piutau is across and comfortably has the outside covered. He even runs across with his arms out as if to say he has this covered, inviting Kearney to try it on the outside.

DK isn't going to bounce Piutau to get out of a tackle. If it was Aaron Cairns or someone there then yes, he should have a go, but in this case he made the right decision.

Right decision for HIM,
Wrong decision for probably every other winger in the Irish squad.

.ak

Erik Shin wrote: »

Any winger should have backed himself there, 100% imo

I'm glad he didn't, the ball getting turned over is no use to us.

thomond2006

Dave Kearney is faster than Simon Zebo.

[Deleted User]

If you wanna have a go at the kearneys there in that moment give out about their depth and positioning and the fact it caused the loop pass that made DK need to take the safer and corret option

Jump_In_Jack

.ak wrote: »

Ah stop. No winger is making that, guarantee you. If it was someone other than Piatau who would buy a dummy shirk then maybe.

Looking at that clip he collects the ball with less then 10 maters to go to the line, Piutau was about 8 metres away, I don't care if Piutau is the Flash, he wouldn't have stopped that.

awec

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Right decision for HIM,
Wrong decision for probably every other winger in the Irish squad.

Maybe, maybe not. Piutau is a good defender

Criticising Kearney for not attempting something that the world and his dog knows he doesn't have in his locker is a bit pointless. Kearney's a pragmatic winger, solid and unspectacular. This is what he gives you and for whatever reason it seems this is what the coach wants.

To be honest I think people focusing on this weekend to make up excuses for players being included or excluded (Kearney, Zebo and TOH spring to mind) are just wasting their time. Kearney was alright last night, but having an alright game is pretty irrelevant and doesn't vindicate his selection. By the same token TOH making some mistakes doesn't vindicate his exclusion. Nor does Zebo scoring a try. Need to look at the bigger picture.

If there wasn't an Ireland squad announced this week nobody would give a stuff that Kearney cut inside.

.ak

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Looking at that clip he collects the ball with less then 10 maters to go to the line, Piutau was about 8 metres away, I don't care if Piutau is the Flash, he wouldn't have stopped that.

You're seeing what you want to see. Simple laws of physics. STANDING player has no momentum, RUNNING player has momentum. Piatau has the space covered.

Any back 3 player would tell you the cut is on there with a covering player coming across like that, and not just any covering player, but Piatau who was already physically imposing himself in the game, and as I said the best defender in the world outside him.

Zebo or Gilroy would've cut back in there, for sure.

Jump_In_Jack

thomond2006 wrote: »

Dave Kearney is faster than Simon Zebo.

From a standing start or from a moving start I don't think anyone would agree with you.
I don't think there would be a queue of French club's lining up for him anyway.

irishbucsfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Looking at that clip he collects the ball with less then 10 maters to go to the line, Piutau was about 8 metres away, I don't care if Piutau is the Flash, he wouldn't have stopped that.

There must be some alternate reality where this is true

Erik Shin

awec wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. Piutau is a good defender

Criticising Kearney for not attempting something that the world and his dog knows he doesn't have in his locker is a bit pointless. Kearney's a pragmatic winger, solid and unspectacular. This is what he gives you and for whatever reason it seems this is what the coach wants.

To be honest I think people focusing on this weekend to make up excuses for players being included or excluded (Kearney, Zebo and TOH spring to mind) are just wasting their time. Kearney was alright last night, but having an alright game is pretty irrelevant and doesn't vindicate his selection. By the same token TOH making some mistakes doesn't vindicate his exclusion. Nor does Zebo scoring a try. Need to look at the bigger picture.

If there wasn't an Ireland squad announced this week nobody would give a stuff that Kearney cut inside.

Just to be clear...I haven't uttered a word against Joe for dropping Zebo. ..I'm all for Rob being in the squad ..this isn't about provincialism...this is about a player who shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish squad being called up....
Anyone of Trimble, Zebo, Gilroy, Adeolokun, Earls and Bowe would have gone for the line, that's what you need your wingers to do....see the prize and grab it

thomond2006

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

From a standing start or from a moving start I don't think anyone would agree with you.
I don't think there would be a queue of French club's lining up for him anyway.

Nah this is an in-forum joke.

Dave Kearney won't be involved in a big match 23. His selection isn't a huge deal tbh.

Jump_In_Jack

.ak wrote: »

You're seeing what you want to see. Simple laws of physics. STANDING player has no momentum, RUNNING player has momentum. Piatau has the space covered.

Any back 3 player would tell you the cut is on there with a covering player coming across like that, and not just any covering player, but Piatau who was already physically imposing himself in the game, and as I said the best defender in the world outside him.

Zebo or Gilroy would've cut back in there, for sure.

You don't understand that in order to tackle the winger you have to run at least 5 metres and dive to make the tackle across and back diagonally while meanwhile the winger has 5 metres to accelerate and hence increase their momentum in a straight line, by the time a collision takes place the simple angles would dictate the tackler is using about 50% of their momentum whereas the winger would be using 100% of their momentum, all the winger needs there is head down and charge for the line about 1 metre from touch and they can ride the tackler's momentum over the line.
Again, a winger's bread and butter.

Former Former

Aside from that incident, whichever way you look at it, he had a good game and is firmly in the frame for selection against SA.

.ak

Erik Shin wrote: »

Just to be clear...I haven't uttered a word against Joe for dropping Zebo. ..I'm all for Rob being in the squad ..this isn't about provincialism...this is about a player who shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish squad being called up....
Anyone of Trimble, Zebo, Gilroy, Adeolokun, Earls and Bowe would have gone for the line, that's what you need your wingers to do....see the prize and grab it

What's the point if none of them score because ALL of the above would've ended up on the sideline short. Cutting back in gave us the opportunity to score.

The days of greedy ball hoggers on the wing are gone. You need guys that can mix it up infield unless they're specimens.

.ak

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

You don't understand that in order to tackle the winger you have to run at least 5 metres and dive to make the tackle across and back diagonally while meanwhile the winger has 5 metres to accelerate and hence increase their momentum in a straight line, by the time a collision takes place the simple angles would dictate the tackler is using about 50% of their momentum whereas the winger would be using 100% of their momentum, all the winger needs there is head down and charge for the line about 1 metre from touch and they can ride the tackler's momentum over the line.
Again, a winger's bread and butter.

Piatau smashes him side on and dumps him into the advertising hoardings. Simple as.

Erik Shin

.ak wrote: »

What's the point if none of them score because ALL of the above would've ended up on the sideline short. Cutting back in gave us the opportunity to score.

The days of greedy ball hoggers on the wing are gone. You need guys that can mix it up infield unless they're specimens.

One on one about 25 feet from the line isn't a greedy ball hogger... Christ at that rate it'll all be 1M mauls over the line or you can't go for it.

Jump_In_Jack

.ak wrote: »

Piatau smashes him side on and dumps him into the advertising hoardings. Simple as.

Piutau. Great player, but you're giving WAY too much credit just because he used to be an All-Black.

.ak

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Piutau. Great player, but you're giving WAY too much credit just because he used to be an All-Black.

I'm giving him credit because I'm very aware of what he is capable of. He wouldn't get stood up, his momentum would carry him into the tackle area atleast before the 5m line, he'd smash him into the stands.

.ak

Erik Shin wrote: »

One on one about 25 feet from the line isn't a greedy ball hogger... Christ at that rate it'll all be 1M mauls over the line or you can't go for it.

It's not as black and white as saying 25 feet from the line tho is it?