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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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1eg0a3xv7b82of

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Superb 10 yard unopposed canter to the line. Egg all over Joe's face now, thats for sure.

its the bitterness I cant stand.

Paul Smeenus

Wow. If he watched the Connacht/Munster game, I'd say Peter Nelson is daring to dream....

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You should really just go ahead and read what I said above about that game, no point in me repeating it.

I did and it still makes the same incorrect assertion it did the first time I read it, no need to repeat it. That won't change the validity or lack thereof of the post.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

I believe uncle joe was not at the game tonight.
Makes sense as there was not many of the autumn squad on display.
Will tomorrow compete the slight?

Burkie1203

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I believe uncle joe was not at the game tonight.
Makes sense as there was not many of the autumn squad on display.
Will tomorrow compete the slight?

Farrell, Feek and Murphy were there.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I believe uncle joe was not at the game tonight.
Makes sense as there was not many of the autumn squad on display.
Will tomorrow compete the slight?

Farrell, Feek and Murphy were there.

but they are not main deciders

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

but they are not main deciders

Your insights into decision making in the coaching structures of the national team would be very welcome. Please tell us more.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

but they are not main deciders

You come across as a bit of an idiot to be honest. You just seem determined to run down the coach for any and every thing. Its a bit pathetic that most of your posts are so critical of the selections when you dont back it up with any sort of rationale or reasoning yet when 9ther people offer reasons to counter your points your just dismiss them.

The squad is picked and anything of relevence will be reported back to Joe. The whole point of coaching teams is to have different opinions and they will have an input

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

but they are not main deciders

You come across as a bit of an idiot to be honest. You just seem determined to run down the coach for any and every thing. Its a bit pathetic that most of your posts are so critical of the selections when you dont back it up with any sort of rationale or reasoning yet when 9ther people offer reasons to counter your points your just dismiss them.

The squad is picked and anything of relevence will be reported back to Joe. The whole point of coaching teams is to have different opinions and they will have an input

You should be kidding. I've just said it's different when Joe is present to make his own mind. Full blank.
Do I think, as many, Joe has been too conservative and it cost us for exemple against Argentina RWC 2015? YES
Do I have my freedom of speech about his choices? YES
Do I think he is the man who build a wining team against the All-Black, and a really good input for Ireland overall? YES
I hope it clarifies some "negative feelings" you could have had

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

You should be kidding. I've just said it's different when Joe is present to make his own mind. Full blank.
Do I think, as many, Joe has been too conservative and it cost us for exemple against Argentina RWC 2015? YES
Do I have my freedom of speech about his choices? YES
Do I think he is the man who build a wining team against the All-Black, and a really good input for Ireland overall? YES
I hope it clarifies some "negative feelings" you could have had

Yeah, but it's a perpetual whinge from you. Nearly every post has a dig in it. Praise on the other hand is hard to find.

So people get tired of it and ignore you in the end.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

You should be kidding. I've just said it's different when Joe is present to make his own mind. Full blank.
Do I think, as many, Joe has been too conservative and it cost us for exemple against Argentina RWC 2015? YES
Do I have my freedom of speech about his choices? YES
Do I think he is the man who build a wining team against the All-Black, and a really good input for Ireland overall? YES
I hope it clarifies some "negative feelings" you could have had

Joe has picked the squad. A chunk of the XV is already set in place. There will be a few spots up for grabs which will be determined in training. Joe doesn't have to attend every game to clarify things in his mind. You seem unable to grasp the concept that TRAINING MATTERS, A LOT.

That has been the case since he took over. He has never hidden that. There was nothing that could have happened tonight that would have changed any of that. But he wasnt there so get the petty dig in at the man. You can dress it up any way you want but you will always find an angle to be critical.

Has it ever occurred to you that the current squad was selected as a result of what happened v Argentina and that he has picked AI 2017 as the time to begin the prep for 2019.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Do I think, as many, Joe has been too conservative and it cost us for exemple against Argentina RWC 2015? YES

The irony of this. Only yesterday you were criticising the coach for not picking an uncapped 32 year old, when he has dropped a 50+ cap 31 year old for 27 and 26 year old alternatives.

It seems your opinion on Conservative Joe suits you when you want it to suit you.

Former Former

I see we've reached the "anger" stage of grief.

We should be at "acceptance" by the time the SA game rolls around.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

You should be kidding. I've just said it's different when Joe is present to make his own mind. Full blank.
Do I think, as many, Joe has been too conservative and it cost us for exemple against Argentina RWC 2015? YES
Do I have my freedom of speech about his choices? YES
Do I think he is the man who build a wining team against the All-Black, and a really good input for Ireland overall? YES
I hope it clarifies some "negative feelings" you could have had

Joe has picked the squad. A chunk of the XV is already set in place. There will be a few spots up for grabs which will be determined in training. Joe doesn't have to attend every game to clarify things in his mind. You seem unable to grasp the concept that TRAINING MATTERS, A LOT.
Yeah this stance was served to protect Boss in 2015. I disagree

That has been the case since he took over. He has never hidden that. There was nothing that could have happened tonight that would have changed any of that. But he wasnt there so get the petty dig in at the man. You can dress it up any way you want but you will always find an angle to be critical.
Yes forums are made to be critical. But you can believe it or not, I'm very happy with Schmidt overall.

Has it ever occurred to you that the current squad was selected as a result of what happened v Argentina and that he has picked AI 2017 as the time to begin the prep for 2019.
Kearneys, then

So what should I say to suit you? conservatism is not about age of players but about persisting with some/ignoring others. That's ALL I say. I'm not against Joe.

The Rape of Lucretia

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

its the bitterness I cant stand.

I know what you mean. Its just one reason after the next to try to explain the absence by any reason other than the one the rest of the world can see - TOH isnt good enough for Ireland 15. Yet its all Joe's fault. Bizarre.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

So what should I say to suit you? conservatism is not about age of players but about persisting with some/ignoring others. That's ALL I say. I'm not against Joe.

Who is he ignoring that is so good he demands selection ?

Given the squad he has selected and the inexperience in the backline, there was always going to be 2 or 3 from kearney, kearney, bowe, trimble, mcfadden.

Out of this 5, name 2 who are most likely to be involved in the next 2 years. How difficult is it to grasp the concept that he needs to have guys in camp who know the routine so he can judge others against. Like why can you not grasp the reality.

I dont get the protect Boss remark.

Former Former

Ah connachta, again with Isaac Boss?

It's been two years for fuchs sake, and it didn't even matter then.

Hastentoadd

Job done Connacht. Beat the best? of our irish players tonight. Look forward to watching Rob for the few minutes he lasts tomorrow

thomond2006

Never ever drink and post.

Hastentoadd

thomond2006 wrote: »

Never ever drink and post.

is that wisdom being provided. thanks so much. I have printed this message off for future reference

its_phil

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Job done Connacht. Beat the best? of our irish players tonight. Look forward to watching Rob for the few minutes he lasts tomorrow

What a s***y thing to post. Have some respect

Utopia Parkway

Former Former wrote: »

It took four minutes of tonight's game to show us why he's not being picked.

Leaving TOH out of the Ireland squad on defensive grounds might possibly make sense only for the fact that Adam Byrne is in it who is absolutely hopeless defensively.

Now he's 23 and might learn eventually but you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. There are inferior players to TOH in that squad but it's coaches choice for right or wrong. Sometimes one coach can see what another can't and vice versa.

Burkie1203

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Leaving TOH out of the Ireland squad on defensive grounds might possibly make sense only for the fact that Adam Byrne is in it who is absolutely hopeless defensively.

Now he's 23 and might learn eventually but you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. There are inferior players to TOH in that squad but it's coaches choice for right or wrong. Sometimes one coach can see what another can't and vice versa.

Maybe TOH is viewed solely as a 15 by Joe
Byrne is a winger. With Trimble, McFadden and Bowe left out he has brought in Sweetnam and Byrne in their place.

TOH has had 2 years of irish camps. Look at his attempt on zebo last night. Others are now getting a chance.

Jump_In_Jack

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Maybe TOH is viewed solely as a 15 by Joe
Byrne is a winger. With Trimble, McFadden and Bowe left out he has brought in Sweetnam and Byrne in their place.

TOH has had 2 years of irish camps. Look at his attempt on zebo last night. Others are now getting a chance.

And Stockdale, so 3 wingers rightly replaced.

And Conway seems to be covering the loss of Zebo.

Will be interesting if Conway's red card last night could see him miss out on selection for Ireland.
Could yet see a call up for O'Halloran or Leader in that case, though it's unlikely Conway will get more than a week of a suspension.

Burkie1203

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

And Stockdale, so 3 wingers rightly replaced.

Will be interesting if Conway's red card last night could see him miss out on selection for Ireland.
Could yet see a call up for O'Halloran or Leader in that case, though it's unlikely Conway will get more than a week of a suspension.

Think conway will get 2 weeks cut to 1. I know people mock the apology etc but he did apologise immediately to the player and to nigel
Which shows clear lack of intent should rightly go in his favour.

McCloskey and TOD are back in too. Its not like they have been regular picks but their good form has been rewarded

Former Former

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Leaving TOH out of the Ireland squad on defensive grounds might possibly make sense only for the fact that Adam Byrne is in it who is absolutely hopeless defensively.

Now he's 23 and might learn eventually but you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. There are inferior players to TOH in that squad but it's coaches choice for right or wrong. Sometimes one coach can see what another can't and vice versa.

I totally agree. I wouldn't have called Byrne up and if Zebo was in the mix, I think Byrne would be the one dropping out.

However, this is Byrne's first call up. He'll get a chance to show what he can do. TOH had a number of such chances and didn't capitalise, just like Gilroy failed to do.

Edit: with Payne and Zebo gone, Kearney liable to injury at any time and Conway facing possible suspension, he might be back in the fold sooner than later, but if he just keeps doing what he's doing, he won't stay there.

prawnsambo

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Now he's 23 and might learn eventually but you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. There are inferior players to TOH in that squad but it's coaches choice for right or wrong. Sometimes one coach can see what another can't and vice versa.

TOH himself said that he wasn't able to carry out his 'work-ons' for Joe because of the way that Connacht played under Pat Lam. I suspect that those 'work-ons' included ball protection in rucks, something that he only seems to be doing this season under KK. He got stuck into a couple of rucks last night when I've seen him stand back and watch the ball getting turned over last year.

There are probably other areas of his game that Joe would have looked for, but being prepared to protect the ball would be very high on Joe's radar.

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

Edit: with Payne and Zebo gone, Kearney liable to injury at any time and Conway facing possible suspension, he might be back in the fold sooner than later, but if he just keeps doing what he's doing, he won't stay there.

Carbery is likely to see gametime and I doubt Conway will get a hefty ban. Stander got 2 cut to 1. I expect conway to get the same.

Wouldnt be surprised to see Ludik get the nod.

Christy42

prawnsambo wrote: »

TOH himself said that he wasn't able to carry out his 'work-ons' for Joe because of the way that Connacht played under Pat Lam. I suspect that those 'work-ons' included ball protection in rucks, something that he only seems to be doing this season under KK. He got stuck into a couple of rucks last night when I've seen him stand back and watch the ball getting turned over last year.

There are probably other areas of his game that Joe would have looked for, but being prepared to protect the ball would be very high on Joe's radar.

Pretty sure that Zebo had the same and came out the other side much improved. At the moment I would rate him the highest of our back 3 options.

TOH vs Byrne is definitely down to conservatism but there is not a massive amount between them. Meh TOH has had his opportunities - might be a good chance for Byrne to get his own work ons. It also gives Joe a chance to give more players camp experience meaning either Byrne or TOH are willing to step up in the 6 nations quickly if needed or their play improves up a few levels.

prawnsambo

Christy42 wrote: »

Pretty sure that Zebo had the same and came out the other side much improved. At the moment I would rate him the highest of our back 3 options.

Yeah, I had Zebo in mind when I was typing that. His work rate is very good and he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. Last night he was getting stuck in whenever he was close to the ball. It wasn't always thus with him, but there was the same mystification about why he wasn't picked initially.