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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Iwannahurl

MOD VOICE: So as not to take up room on the helmet thread I have taken out the last few pages of hi vis related material and put it together here. All material or threads relating specifically to hi vis will be moved in here or locked if it repeats what is already said in here. There are a few off topic posts but from now on if we could keep the discussion to Hi Vis, and related topics.

Cram

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar was interviewed by Sean O'Rourke on RTE Radio 1 this morning.

Questions were submitted by listeners, and someone asked whether hi-viz and helmets were to be made mandatory for cyclists.

The Minister's response (paraphrased) was "hi-viz possibly, but the evidence is not great that helmets have a big impact on road safety."

I have mixed views on that response. The situation with helmets has been well rehearsed in this thread -- evidence of modest benefit versus anti-cycling effect of mandatory laws -- but it's odd that the Minister might consider making hi-viz mandatory given that there is no evidence (to date) that it reduces casualties.

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[Deleted User]

They did spend a bit of time at least talking about car lights and showing them pulling over taxis for broken front lights. But when they moved on to cyclists and pedestrians, it's like they treat lights and hi-vis as interchangable items, one or the other, sure ye'll be grand.

CramCycle

If I get particularly bored this week, I might send a letter into the broadcast authority.

mp31

Saw this via a tweet http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1541931213601954?platform=hootsuite&

Just waiting for this to be trotted out by Shane Ross and his minions as the high viz solution for cyclists

Cee-Jay-Cee

I have started replacing jerseys, shorts and socks with flouro yellow/green items in the last year or so. It may not be of any real benefit but I'd rather up my chances of been seen than not.

longshanks

A flashing light would be better.

cunavalos

mp31 wrote: »

Saw this via a tweet http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1541931213601954?platform=hootsuite&

Just waiting for this to be trotted out by Shane Ross and his minions as the high viz solution for cyclists

Will be interesting to see if the full paper will be published as it is only the abstract from a conference proceeding that has been published at the moment

Also worth emphasising that bibs refer to bibtights or leggings (less there be any confusion) as no improvement was noted when a "fluorescent" jersey and black leggings was compared with a black jersey and black leggings

Post-hoc pairwise comparisons (Bonferroni) revealed that that a fluorescent yellow jersey did not significantly improve the cyclist’s conspicuity relative to a black jersey. However when the cyclist paired the fluorescent jersey with fluorescent yellow leggings, participants responded from a distance 3.3x farther than an identical outfit with black leggings

mamax

That's a load of rubbish, if motorists were to pay more attention and actually look out for other road users we would all be fine cycling but there are too many idiots in a hurry/on their phones/shouting at kids in the back seat to give a damn about us.
There is no substitute for decent lights and motorists paying attention

Here is an interesting idea the RSA should look at, it would bring much needed awareness to the problem of close passing vehicles

http://www.bikealive.co.nz/

Bambaata

Couldnt believe the respect Spanish drivers were giving me when doing some cycling over at l'Vuelta. Cars were literally on the other side of the road passing me, closest anyone came was about 1.5/2m away! Seems they take it much more seriously over there with plenty of 1.5m passing signs around the place. They need to get that in here pronto and make it an offence to pass within that distance, id an Aircoach pass me so close i could feel it last night! Was hoping id catch him, stop in front of him and get a pic of the driver to send onto them but never got to the prat. He almost managed to test if my See Sense crash app was working

vicwatson

longshanks wrote: »

A flashing light would be better.

I’d have both

eeeee

Threads merged

Grassey

Bambaata wrote:

Couldnt believe the respect Spanish drivers were giving me when doing some cycling over at l'Vuelta. Cars were literally on the other side of the road passing me, closest anyone came was about 1.5/2m away! Seems they take it much more seriously over there with plenty of 1.5m passing signs around the place.

I used to say the same about cycling in Mallorca until this year. I'll blame it on high season brit/irish tourists in rentals, as usually when I go in low season passing distances are respected.

mamax

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/garda-cyclists-hi-vis-clothing/

Pinch Flat

mamax wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/garda-cyclists-hi-vis-clothing/

The complete over reliance on hi-vis clothing is worrying. The Gardai should be enforcing the existing laws for lights on bikes. These have been in existence for over 50 years.

Macy0161

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The complete over reliance on hi-vis clothing is worrying. The Gardai should be enforcing the existing laws for lights on bikes. These have been in existence for over 50 years.

I actually read the RSA press release, just to see the primary source. Lights for cyclists not mentioned until the 6th Paragraph! And even then, by the guard (as well as continuing the hi viz mantra(. No quote at all from anyone from the RSA about lights.

The only credit I can give them at all is mentioning torches for pedestrians (as lost in the hi viz haze as cyclist lights), and Browne Belts mentioned.

magicbastarder

mp31 wrote: »

Saw this via a tweet http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1541931213601954?platform=hootsuite&

Just waiting for this to be trotted out by Shane Ross and his minions as the high viz solution for cyclists

will need to bookmark that.
i expect shane ross will now announce they are looking into the idea of making fluorescent trousers mandatory for cyclists.

ThisRegard

mamax wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/garda-cyclists-hi-vis-clothing/

“The evenings are getting darker and particularly so as the clocks going back this weekend,” said Minister for Transport Shane Ross RD (Ind).

“So it is vital that pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists are clearly visible to drivers, especially on dark unlit rural roads.

Typical. Not that motorists should be more aware of their surroundings and drive to meet the conditions, nope, cyclists and pedestrians, the onus is on you.

Pinch Flat

ThisRegard wrote: »

Typical. Not that motorists should be more aware of their surroundings and drive to meet the conditions, nope, cyclists and pedestrians, the onus is on you.

It would be nice to see a statement like "can motorists make sure they have both headlights working, as functioning dipped headlights are vital in illuminating the left hand verge where pedestrians may be walking. Also be mindful of pedestrians on narrow country roads, particularly at sharp bends. Please slow down and expect the unexpected on these dark evenings".

plodder

mp31 wrote: »

Saw this via a tweet http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1541931213601954?platform=hootsuite&

Just waiting for this to be trotted out by Shane Ross and his minions as the high viz solution for cyclists

It's worth reading the abstract, because it's not saying that hi-viz vests are the answer - rather that high-viz leggings are. It's the motion of the lower legs together with the hi-viz material. Makes sense to me. I'd like to see exactly what they used in the test, but I doubt it was fluourescent trousers either. I think hi-viz leg warmers (if they exist) or even just elasticated strips might do it.

.. and just to add, I still don't think they should be mandatory. Test conditions don't necessarily reflect reality etc etc, but I think I'd be interested in trying something out.

ThisRegard

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It would be nice to see a statement like "can motorists make sure they have both headlights working, as functioning dipped headlights are vital in illuminating the left hand verge where pedestrians may be walking. Also be mindful of pedestrians on narrow country roads, particularly at sharp bends. Please slow down and expect the unexpected on these dark evenings".

The problem I have with the mentality of the RSA, Ross and now the gardai is that some motorists, and we've all experienced it, will have the attitude that you shouldn't be on the road without such a vest and do a punishment pass/horn blare/shout abuse, because, for want of a better word, they've been enabled to do so by those they see as authority figures on this.

magicbastarder

plodder wrote: »

I think hi-viz leg warmers (if they exist) or even just elasticated strips might do it.

i bought a pair or two in aldi about a year ago, never used them cos they're kinda uncomfortable.

Macy0161

plodder wrote: »

It's worth reading the abstract, because it's not saying that hi-viz vests are the answer - rather that high-viz leggings are. It's the motion of the lower legs together with the hi-viz material. Makes sense to me. I'd like to see exactly what they used in the test, but I doubt it was fluourescent trousers either. I think hi-viz leg warmers (if they exist) or even just elasticated strips might do it.

Many who are anti builders vests have said this many times before that the best place for reflective material is the ankles! The torso is the least effective.

Ankle/ Arm bands are available periodically in Aldi and Lidl - 4 for a fiver, also have 4 blinking LEDs. You can pick up alternative options in most sports stores.

There was always logic in when they had the reflectors in the pedals!

cdaly_

mp31 wrote: »

Fluorescent yellow bibs help improve your daytime visibility to drivers...?

I'm planning to fit a high-power light to my bibshorts so that I'll know that the sun shines out of my ar....

Chips Lovell

magicbastarder wrote: »

i expect shane ross will now announce they are looking into the idea of making fluorescent trousers mandatory for cyclists.

Like these?

Pinch Flat

cdaly_ wrote: »

I'm planning to fit a high-power light to my bibshorts so that I'll know that the sun shines out of my ar....

You need one of these (or a pair, as it would seem.....) :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Z6Y0YNQGg

what_traffic

Surprised no mention of the EY Entreprenur of the Year 2017 in this thread.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/1027/915597-entrepreneur-of-the-year-award/

RSA is one of the top Irish Customers that they have. Helps I guess that they are both located in Mayo.

I love Sean nos

ThisRegard wrote: »

Typical. Not that motorists should be more aware of their surroundings and drive to meet the conditions, nope, cyclists and pedestrians, the onus is on you.

Not surprising. Whenever there's a report of something getting hit by a car at night, there's always mention of whether the pedestrian or cyclist had high-vis. Not a word on whether the vehicle's lights were functioning or the state of the driver's eyesight.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Surprised no mention of the EY Entreprenur of the Year 2017 in this thread.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/1027/915597-entrepreneur-of-the-year-award/

RSA is one of the top Irish Customers that they have. Helps I guess that they are both located in Mayo.

So the question we should ask - what global Bike Light Manufacturer can we get to relocate their European Headquarters into Ballina?

[Deleted User]

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Not surprising. Whenever there's a report of something getting hit by a car at night, there's always mention of whether the pedestrian or cyclist had high-vis. Not a word on whether the vehicle's lights were functioning or the state of the driver's eyesight.

That is a very good point. I drove from Clonmel to Kilkenny one evening (7pm) last week and was surprised at the number of vehicles with one faulty headlight.

Every road user should take measures to ensure their own safety. One of the main ones is that they can be seen by other road users and are aware of their surroundings. Walking or cycling along unlit country roads, wearing dark clothes and listening to headphones is a recipe for disaster. Likewise, driving with faulty lights.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Walking or cycling along unlit country roads, wearing dark clothes and listening to headphones is a recipe for disaster.

And yet, the 'disaster' contributes one or two road deaths each year, as far as I can work out. Whereas motorists crashing into other motorists contributes about 150 road deaths each year. Where is the real disaster, Mary Anne?

[Deleted User]

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And yet, the 'disaster' contributes one or two road deaths each year, as far as I can work out. Whereas motorists crashing into other motorists contributes about 150 road deaths each year. Where is the real disaster, Mary Anne?

Really? These figures say differently. http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/