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Do you think Euthanasia will ever be legal in Ireland?

NIMAN

I heard a report today saying that our already crumbling health service is going to have another third of a workload placed on it by 2030 due to people living longer and an aging population.

It doesn't bode well.

Got to thinking about how many people are a strain on the system when they are barely living or have major health issues, and many might decide to take the assisted suicide route if it was available.

I know it can sound cruel, but is it a viable future option for us as a nation? We have been progressive in so many other issues, why not euthanasia?

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lazybones32

corner of hells wrote: »

Oh it did happen , I'm nearly certain it was Holland, it's the way it's trivialized by the poster by not providing details.
It's to go before a court not to prosecute but to seek clarity.

Trivialized? Moi?
I think it scary that a doctor decides to sedate a patient in order to kill them but to get her family members to hold her down too...and they comply.

Anything but trivial but i'm not a journalist, so i don't have to write reverently.

server down

I think the support for properly controlled euthanasia is wider than people think. The most religious person I know, my aged aunt came out in favour two christmases back. This woman is steadfastly anti abortion.

This was after a few sherries mind you but I know one of her parents had a slow lingering death. Years back. (She’s an in law so I didn’t really know them).

Country people are also used to the idea of not leaving an animal to die horribly but to “end the misery”, this logic can be easily applied to humans.

server down

lazybones32 wrote: »

Read the first line. I'm on the phone so I CAN'T LINK. And it isn't up to me to teach you how to use the fcuking internet, is it?

Apparently though that does work the other way

I’m on the phone. Here’s a link.

www.google.com

lazybones32

corner of hells wrote: »

Your being very disingenuous posting that comment, that incident was in Holland about three years ago.
It's very clear that I was talking about Irish nursing homes with examples of how patients pay to live in them.
What's with the LOL comment , something funny ?

The post i replied to didn't mention irish nursing homes.
The info i provided is from a nation where euthanasia is legal. Lol. AND as i wrote, the case was concluded in Jan of this year. Lol.

corner of hells

lazybones32 wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

Oh it did happen , I'm nearly certain it was Holland, it's the way it's trivialized by the poster by not providing details.
It's to go before a court not to prosecute but to seek clarity.

Trivialized? Moi?
I think it scary that a doctor decides to sedate a patient in order to kill them but to get her family members to hold her down too...and they comply.

Anything but trivial but i'm not a journalist, so i don't have to write reverently.

Oh I dunno , trivialized because of lack of detail , the LOL thrown in or even your own little Moi comment smacks of an attempt of humour or sarcasm.

lazybones32

server down wrote: »

Apparently though that does work the other way

I’m on the phone. Here’s a link.

www.google.com

1: how did you do that?
2: if you know how to search, search. You have an encyclopedia at your fingers but still need to be shown pages?

corner of hells

server down wrote: »

lazybones32 wrote: »

Read the first line. I'm on the phone so I CAN'T LINK. And it isn't up to me to teach you how to use the fcuking internet, is it?

Apparently though that does work the other way

I’m on the phone. Here’s a link.

www.google.com

Lol

gctest50

lazybones32 wrote: »

Read the first line. I'm on the phone so I CAN'T LINK. And it isn't up to me to teach you how to use the fcuking internet, is it?

here's a link from a phone, it's not a problem :

https://www.asn.org.uk/

lazybones32

corner of hells wrote: »

Oh I dunno , trivialized because of lack of detail , the LOL thrown in or even your own little Moi comment smacks of an attempt of humour or sarcasm.

I gave you plenty of detail. Woman - doctor - sedated - restrained - dead. Want a picture too?
Maybe google the story for more info?

lazybones32

gctest50 wrote: »

here's a link from a phone, it's not a problem :

https://www.asn.org.uk/

Oh no! Words.....

Try harder...a lot harder.

lazybones32

corner of hells wrote: »

Lol

Now you're getting it.

DaithiMa

I am not sure if it will ever be legal. In my opinion, having watched once proud men and women dying slowly and painfully without any dignity, I think it should be 100% legal in the event of terminal illness. If you are given a death sentence by your health you should be allowed go out on your own terms.

Firblog

lazybones32 wrote: »

Read the first line. I'm on the phone so I CAN'T LINK. And it isn't up to me to teach you how to use the fcuking internet, is it?

And the username could have been a clue to the answer as to the chances of him doing the search and posting it as requested.

Terrlock

isn't liverpool care pathway practiced in Ireland.

Isn't this just another name for euthianasia without calling it euthianasia.

I don't think euthiansia itself will solve any of the problems in the department of health. I don't think it will even help.

The system needs replacing.

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seamie78

medical advances and interventions are keeping people alive beyond what was previously possible, just because somebody can be kept alive doesn't mean they should be, it can be difficult for loved ones to make an objective decision. I believe that there should be a process whereby people of sound mind and body can indicate at what stage they wish treatment etc to stop/discontinue. the hse could have a central data base where people register there wishes and can update on an annual basis prior to falling ill. an example may be not knowing family any longer, or being unable to communicate or move

Terrlock

The problem I have with all this is I have seen where medical professionals decide for a patient that it's their time to die, even if it's against there wishes.

Patients should be allowed to decide this and not have if enforced on them.

Knex*

I think it should be legal not only for those who are ill, but just for those who generally don't want to live anymore.

I accept that this is extreme in the eyes of many, but if you don't own your own life, what do you truly own.

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Terrlock

The problem with Euthanasia once you introduce it people can be pressured by others into it.

This is not right.

Ubbquittious

The nursing homes in this country make so much money every month from keeping people somewhat alive for as long as possible while draining thousands a month from the patient and their family's' bank accounts that I doubt it will happen any time soon.

No doubt they have already signaled the government that they don't want it brought in so the only way it could happen really is if d'EU decided to bring it in for us.

Terrlock

....... wrote: »

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Yes I have experienced it Twice in Irish Hospitals one with a relative and the other with a friend.

It's just not talked about.

I have friends who have also experienced this in Irish Hospitals and also a relative that is a nurse who confirms that it happens quite often but people don't realise it.

nozzferrahhtoo

I would like to see it someday somehow, for many reasons. Not least being that if the concept of ownership or possession is to mean anything to me in this world, then I must at minimum own my own life and the decisions of what I want to do with it, including end it.

I have read the arguments "against" it in the past many times and they are all arguments against it being done badly, not against it being done at all. Arguments that people might be pressured into it (post #81 above for example) or people seeking it for what we deem to be the "wrong" reasons.

But arguments against the principle itself, that people should be able to choose to die, and be supported in the decision and it's execution, appear thin on the ground. I can not think of one myself to be honest.

Hannibal_Smith

Knex. wrote: »

I think it should be legal not only for those who are ill, but just for those who generally don't want to live anymore.

I accept that this is extreme in the eyes of many, but if you don't own your own life, what do you truly own.

This is allowed, in Switzerland anyway. The show I referred to earlier in the thread showed a guy who was suicidal. He went through all the psychological analysis and confirmed this was his decision. He didn't want to die alone or hurt himself, he wanted a dignified peaceful end and that's what he got.

Hannibal_Smith

Terrlock wrote: »

The problem with Euthanasia once you introduce it people can be pressured by others into it.

This is not right.

How can they pressured into doing it?

Terrlock

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

How can they pressured into doing it?

You think people can't be pressured into it?

Of course they can and are.

You don't have to look very far to find articles on the subject.

nozzferrahhtoo

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

How can they pressured into doing it?

I suppose if I was lying in a hospital bed and I was terminally ill and in pain.......... and my loved one(s) came to me saying.......

"Oh my love, seeing you in pain is so awful for us, we are suffering so much watching you like this, would you not consider the option of............."

........ I would feel somewhat pressured by that. Now you can argue it would be poor form for them to do, immoral even and so on and so on. But at the end of the day I would feel some level of pressure from that.

To name but one example. I am all for Euthanisia myself but I can certainly see how people might feel pressure to use it.

Not sure how medical insurance might work with it too for example. If keeping someone alive is very costly in certain circumstances, and them taking the assisted death route much cheaper........ could they through policy or premiums word contracts in such a way that in some situations they would withhold paying out on the policy if the cheaper "right to die" option were not taken?

That I know admittedly little about, but my imagination runs riot on it. But I suspect that I as a medical insurance consumer might happily take a cheaper policy if it stipulated that a certain level of ongoing pain medication would negate my contract. And I would take the cheaper policy in the knowledge that, were I to reach that level of ongoing pain, I am someone who would likely choose death instead of trying to mediate it.

corner of hells

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The nursing homes in this country make so much money every month from keeping people somewhat alive for as long as possible while draining thousands a month from the patient and their family's' bank accounts that I doubt it will happen any time soon.

No doubt they have already signaled the government that they don't want it brought in so the only way it could happen really is if d'EU decided to bring it in for us.

It's a lesser of two evils , do you leave elderly infirm people in thier own homes or look to admit them to a nursing home.

You don't necessarily have to pay yourself out of your funds to pay for care in a nursing home.Both Fair Deal and subvention don't touch the children's or spouses assets , both are means tested and if you are wealthy enough private care is available.

Nursing homes provide care and support for people unable to care for themselves and also for a family if they are unable to look after their loved one in their own homes.

No nursing home will take some who needs extensive medical care , most won't admit a patient with bedsores nevermind some needing daily attention off a doctor.

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Terrlock

....... wrote: »

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Yes both were conscious and wanted to live and not on machines.

And one survived as his son was a nurse who knew what was going on and made the doctors and nurse stop.

They give a drug which effectively shuts down all the organ in the body and stop giving food and water.

This person is alive enjoying life today because is son intervened. The other person was not so lucky.