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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

To sum up, it won't matter a lot for the 2 big games but against Fidji we have a risk to see

2) Herring
4) Dillane
9) McGrath
13) Farrell
15) R.Kearney

where I'd expected to be fair to see
2) Cronin
4) Beirne
9) Cooney
12) Scannell (Aki moved 13)
15) TOH

V Fiji we are likely to see
2. Tracy
4. Dillane
9. Marmion
12. McCloskey
13. Farrell
15. Carbery/Conway

Beirne is overseas. You need to get your head around that concept

McCloskey is fully deserving of his call up. Dont see why you could have an issue with that.

prawnsambo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

V Fiji we are likely to see
2. Tracy
4. Dillane
9. Marmion
12. McCloskey
13. Farrell
15. Carbery/Conway

Beirne is overseas. You need to get your head around that concept

McCloskey is fully deserving of his call up. Dont see why you could have an issue with that.

Are we not likely to see James Ryan in there somewhere? Or Kieran Treadwell?

Dave_The_Sheep

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

2. World player of the year cannot be used to validate anything - driscoll never winning devalues the whole competition. Sexton is a great player and is crucial to Ireland. He has and never will be a world class 10. Examples of World class would be wilkinson, carter, lynam, and barrett now.
Lets keep things real on here.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Who are Driscoll and Lynam? Been watching rugby for a while now and can't think of any world class players with those names.

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

well before your time. rugby was a better game to watch and for me from 2007 it started to lose its soul. Look up some old footage, educate yourself. Try and see outside modern rugby which is a game for brawn only, brain unfortunately has been reduced to a select few.
As rugby has beefed up so unfortunatly have many supporters.

I presume you mean Lynagh?

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

The bias is the other way. McCartney/HefF aren't perfect but tell me what Herring did better? I can accept debate about Cronin, or Scannell (the hooker), but there it's an anti-Connacht bias (because the overall resuts aren't good, but those hookers are not responsible for that).

Herring has been in camp before and is playing champions cup level. And playing well.

N Scannell is injured. We dont know why cronin wasnt selected. Possibly because he hasnt been at his best.

If all these connacht players are so good how come connacht were so sh1t last season and finished 8th.

All? I'm just talking about TOH and hookers. Not advocating for others, Bealham, Roux, Buckley, ou even Dillane.
Lots of poeple here said McCartney was clearly only 4th choice. Scannell injured, I excpected him to be 3rd. Instead it's Ulster bench holder! Too old? excuse, Best is way older. Not good enough? quote me one area he's weak/behind Herring.
Only reason is Schmidt knows how much Aki cap is "scandalous", he didn't want to endorse another Project cap to play just a few minutes against Fidji..

Burkie1203

prawnsambo wrote: »

Are we not likely to see James Ryan in there somewhere? Or Kieran Treadwell?

Yeah we are. One starts, the other is on bench

connachta

Beirne is overseas. You need to get your head around that concept

McCloskey is fully deserving of his call up. Dont see why you could have an issue with that.

Beirne has signed for Munster, should be considered ASAP
Again, I LOVE McCloskey, it's about Farrell. But as you can't imagine Aki or Henshaw tested as 13...

molloyjh

One of the most future focused selections in years, but as usual the majority of the comments are about where all the outrageous mistakes are in it. I really do hate the internet during international windows. Is it time for another boards break I wonder.......

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

All? I'm just talking about TOH and hookers. Not advocating for others, Bealham, Roux, Buckley, ou even Dillane.
Lots of poeple here said McCartney was clearly only 4th choice. Scannell injured, I excpected him to be 3rd. Instead it's Ulster bench holder! Too old? excuse, Best is way older. Not good enough? quote me one area he's weak/behind Herring.
Only reason is Schmidt knows how much Aki cap is "scandalous", he didn't want to endorse another Project cap to play just a few minutes against Fidji..

Herring has been in camp before and knows the routine. Likewise with Best. How difficult is that to understand? They go straight in. maybe Joe doesn't want to invest time in McCartney for very little gain. With scannell and cronin in his longer term plans he doesn't see any point in calling up mccartney if he isnt in his plans for 2019

Herring has been starting for Ulster including twice in europe this season.

Henshaw is nailed on at 12. McCloskey is a 12 and has earned his call up

Aki and farrell are 13s. Aki isnt going to be a token call up the way you are talking. Joe clearly was going to call him up with RWC 2019 in mind.

I dont understand why you find this difficult to grasp

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

Beirne has signed for Munster, should be considered ASAP
Again, I LOVE McCloskey, it's about Farrell. But as you can't imagine Aki or Henshaw tested as 13...

He. Is. Not. Playing. For. Munster. Now.

He. Is. Not. Available.

He. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Picked.

Can it be any clearer?

In any case Treadwell and Ryan are currently playing better. The Ireland squad is not the 84 bus. There isn't room for everyone.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Beirne has signed for Munster, should be considered ASAP
Again, I LOVE McCloskey, it's about Farrell. But as you can't imagine Aki or Henshaw tested as 13...

Beirne is outside IRFU control for another 10 months. Do you understand that? He wont pick a player who they have no control over. Toner, Ryan, Dillane, Treadwell, Henderson are plenty good.

Joe doesn't view Henshaw as 13. Is that too difficult to grasp for you? Like have you not watched ireland at all the last 4 years?

Farrell was selected because Ringrose is out. Joe isn't going to chop and change where he doesn't need to when he is trying to build depth.

Why are these concepts so difficult for you to understand

Jump_In_Jack

I think Henshaw is a guarantee to play the first test against South Africa and most likely to be rested for the middle test against Fiji.
Having played alongside Aki would lead me to believe they will partner up for the first test.
It could be 12 Aki, 13 Henshaw, as they played with Connacht.
Or they could swap. Looking at the way Aki has been selected at 13 for tomorrow's match, I wonder if that was a request from Joe Schmidt, and keeping Henshaw at 12 would reduce change.
I don't know if McCloskey and Farrell ever played together at Ulster but perhaps would pair up nicely against Fiji.
Marshall was unlucky to lose out to Farrell in selection though, can only surmise Farrell is being rewarded for coming back to Ireland as a message to other players, as he hasn't really impressed me so far this season. Though his big frame is interesting, could offer something different to the mix that we lack with other options.
The final test against Argentina could see Henshaw matched with any of the other 3 depending on their performances, one match each to impress.

Yeah_Right

molloyjh wrote: »

One of the most future focused selections in years, but as usual the majority of the comments are about where all the outrageous mistakes are in it. I really do hate the internet during international windows. Is it time for another boards break I wonder.......

No don't take a break. This is all highly amusing. It's like watching a monkey humping a football. Just take a deep breath, pour yourself a nice whiskey and enjoy the show.

Also people like me need some sane and logical posts from people like you. Otherwise we start to think that everyone out there is insane

Jump_In_Jack

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I presume you mean Lynagh?

Lynagh and Larkham mixed up?

Burkie1203

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Lynagh and Larkham mixed up?

Des Lynam from the bbc. Sports presenter.

molloyjh

Yeah_Right wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

One of the most future focused selections in years, but as usual the majority of the comments are about where all the outrageous mistakes are in it. I really do hate the internet during international windows. Is it time for another boards break I wonder.......

No don't take a break. This is all highly amusing. It's like watching a monkey humping a football. Just take a deep breath, pour yourself a nice whiskey and enjoy the show.

Also people like me need some sane and logical posts from people like you. Otherwise we start to think that everyone out there is insane

Did you not see my earlier post about the lizard people?

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Beirne is outside IRFU control for another 10 months. Do you understand that? He wont pick a player who they have no control over.

Why are these concepts so difficult for you to understand

He. Is. Not. Playing. For. Munster. Now.

He. Is. Not. Available.

He. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Picked.

Can it be any clearer?

You can be both nailed on your obvious points. The fact is "control" over players matters on the long term. It's not a stalinian rule. It matters when players are missing training camps often and can't be integrated for the future. Beirne will miss 1 week now, 1 or 2 in January/February. And NONE starting may 2018. That's absolutely not a reason to omit him, now he signed for Munster.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

You can be both nailed on your obvious points. The fact is "control" over players matters on the long term. It matters when players are missing training camps often and can't be integrated for the future. Beirne will miss 1 week now, 1 or 2 in January/February. And NONE starting may 2018. That's absolutely not a reason to omit him, now he signed for Munster.

Of course it is a reason. IRFU want to use national selections as a carrot to keep players in ireland.

Beirne will also have to go back to scarlets after rounds 2 and 3 of the 6n. If he plays games he could turn up with an injury, a knock or just in need of time off to recover therefore he might be of no use to team ireland who are able to rest players as they see fit.

The reason control is important is so that as many players as possible are available to train in the week before games.

The IRFU control allows Joe control gametime at the provinces.

Like are you really unable to grasp any of this

thomond2006

Those women were in the nip!

Hastentoadd

I am left thinking this is where Irish rugby is at. And that is ok. It is divilish annoying really but it is where it is so accept it or move on. So I choose to move on and let it go

kuang1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Those women were in the nip!

Lol...
Although for some of the posters participating this evening I think the

"These are small; those...are far away"

line might be more apt!

MJohnston

connachta wrote: »

You can be both nailed on your obvious points. The fact is "control" over players matters on the long term. It's not a stalinian rule. It matters when players are missing training camps often and can't be integrated for the future. Beirne will miss 1 week now, 1 or 2 in January/February. And NONE starting may 2018. That's absolutely not a reason to omit him, now he signed for Munster.

As I've said already, it absolutely is a reason to omit him, and has been used as a reason to omit Irish players who were actually playing in Ireland already. We've seen this with players who were in the squad but missed 1 single training session during the 6N because of a minor knock - they didn't get picked for that week's match. 2 weeks missed in January and February is a lot too.

MJohnston

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Honestly, I really hate most everybodys opinion. But it is done. Buer, former former, thomond, all those years you said it was true. I think you all proved yourselves well. Ye were always right.

Folks: Don't Drink and Post.

Bazzo

Just as an aside: O'Halloran has certainly not looked like losing his place in Connacht to Leader at any stage this season. I'm pretty sure he has started every match he has been available bar one in which he was rested.

Wegians89

Bazzo wrote: »

Just as an aside: O'Halloran has certainly not looked like losing his place in Connacht to Leader at any stage this season. I'm pretty sure he has started every match he has been available bar one in which he was rested.

Think that's was in reference to the one game leader started 15 and toh started 14. Which is totally understandable considering that kk is a new coach trying things out differently. But no toh hasn't looked anything like being dropped

Former Former

O'Halloran has been in every camp for two years and hasn't made any impression. Time to look elsewhere.

The calls for Beirne are crazy. Aside from the obvious, he'd be displacing one of Dillane, Ryan or Treadwell, all of whom are serious talents and should be picked.

Likewise, Scannell would only displace McCloskey and if you're picking on form, there's no contest there.

This is the squad selection people have been demanding for years. Loads of new players, old warriors being stood down, exciting runners in the backs, form being rewarded.

Erik Shin

Former Former wrote: »

O'Halloran has been in every camp for two years and hasn't made any impression. Time to look elsewhere.

The calls for Beirne are crazy. Aside from the obvious, he'd be displacing one of Dillane, Ryan or Treadwell, all of whom are serious talents and should be picked.

Likewise, Scannell would only displace McCloskey and if you're picking on form, there's no contest there.

This is the squad selection people have been demanding for years. Loads of new players, old warriors being stood down, exciting runners in the backs, form being rewarded.

Nobody, but Nobody, has been demanding Dave be selected

irishbucsfan

Erik Shin wrote: »

Nobody, but Nobody, has been demanding Dave be selected

No, but in the very same position we have Munster's version of Dave, Dave Sweetnam, who people have been demanding. Also Dave Byrne, who is a very different type of player but on that people have been selecting in Leinster, and of course Dave Stockdale from up North. If anything, that position is an example of people getting exactly what they've been asking for.

Former Former

Erik Shin wrote: »

Nobody, but Nobody, has been demanding Dave be selected

Ah sure that's only because it's taken for granted. It would be like demanding Best or Murray be included, am I right?

Burkie1203

Erik Shin wrote: »

Nobody, but Nobody, has been demanding Dave be selected

Carbery, Stockdale, Farrell, Aki, McCloskey, Byrne and sweetnam being selected means that 2 or 3 of Kearney, Kearney, Bowe, Trimble, McFadden were also going to be selected.

Bowe, Trimble are unlikely to make rwc2019
McFadden is an unlikely call up at this stage

Both Kearneys are likely to in every squad the next 2 years (if fit). Seems a logical selection to me.

irishfan9

When Murray heads off after the next world cup, his understudies should be entering their prime years -> Cooney(29), Marmion(27), McGrath(26)