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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Steve

Continuing on from the previous thread....

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prawnsambo

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

By that logic toner, henshaw, rob and dave kearney could play abroad but continue to be picked for Ireland. They are the best in their position by a country mile. they are irreplaceable.

Hmmm. And yet all of those players had replacements ready to take over when they were injured. You're having a laugh.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

prawnsambo wrote: »

You are clearly aware of what's been said on the matter. It's four years since Sexton went to Paris, drawing comparisons is futile.

Sexton was drawing the comparisons because he knew Zebo not being picked and he was while in France would be an issue so he decided to give a well rehearsed fluff piece. Very funny.

prawnsambo

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

Sexton was drawing the comparisons because he knew Zebo not being picked and he was while in France would be an issue so he decided to give a well rehearsed fluff piece. Very funny.

So you already knew the article and just wanted to start an argument here.

Hastentoadd

Former Former wrote: »

Rob Kearney was always going to be picked regardless of Zebo being in or not.
TOH just isn't being picked because Joe doesn't rate him. He never has.

I have finally come to the same conclusion. Its hard to stomach but if nothing Joe is consistent. His gameplan has no space for the style of rugby TOH plays. Which totally simplifies TOHs decision in contract negotiations in the coming months. It would be pointless for him to even consider Munster or Leinster as the problem is the same. The future, as I FINALLY see it, is Stockdale. Both the physique with also the ability to cut through a defence. I think Joe has actually done Tiernan a favour with his omission.

Erik Shin

Hastentoadd wrote: »

I have finally come to the same conclusion. Its hard to stomach but if nothing Joe is consistent. His gameplan has no space for the style of rugby TOH plays. Which totally simplifies TOHs decision in contract negotiations in the coming months. It would be pointless for him to even consider Munster or Leinster as the problem is the same. The future, as I FINALLY see it, is Stockdale. Both the physique with also the ability to cut through a defence. I think Joe has actually done Tiernan a favour with his omission.

Would TOH be looking to move abroad do you think?

Hastentoadd

Erik Shin wrote: »

Would TOH be looking to move abroad do you think?

Well if he can't see the writing on the wall, my question would be 'how large does it have to be printed?'

Erik Shin

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Well if he can't see the writing on the wall, my question would be 'how large does it have to be printed?'

Leaving aside his "face not fitting" is he happy at Connacht...just because he's not playing for Ireland doesn't necessarily mean he's unhappy at provincial level

Former Former

connachta wrote: »

None of Kearneys should be there. If we were properly preparing RWC 2019

On the day when Stockdale, Byrne, Sweetnam and Conway are all named in the squad, average age 23 and 5 caps between the four of them, all anyone can focus on is "the Kearneys" ffs.

That's four young back-three players (plus Carbery) coming into camp and getting a shot. It's up to them to take it now. Add in three centres with a combined total of 1 cap and this is very much a new look squad.

But it's never enough.

If people took a minute to put aside the petty grievances they would see that this squad is exactly what they've claimed to want.

Buer

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote:

Both your points are simply not true. Sexton was never at any time the best 10 in world rugby.

He said arguably. Given he was the only outhalf nominated for World Player of the Year in 2014, it appears quite a few people would agree that he was, in fact, arguably the best 10 in the world at that time.

Mantis Toboggan

Gas how Bundee Aki can just fly in and be representing Ireland yet Zebo who is born and bread in this country gets the chop. Poor form from Joe schmith and the RFU.

MJohnston

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

By that logic toner, henshaw, rob and dave kearney could play abroad but continue to be picked for Ireland. They are the best in their position by a country mile. they are irreplaceable.

They are all far from irreplaceable, as is Zebo. Sexton was probably the only irreplaceable Irish player when he went to France, and since then I think only Murray between 2015-16 would have been granted the same leeway.

As many others have pointed out, and you should well know yourself, Sexton also went to France with a clause that let him attend training camps outside of international windows, something Zebo didn’t get. Even players playing in Ireland rarely make squads if they’ve missed training camps, and that has been a fairly consistent pattern (if not actual policy).

ClanofLams

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Gas how Bundee Aki can just fly in and be representing Ireland yet Zebo who is born and bread in this country gets the chop. Poor form from Joe schmith and the RFU.

I have seen this argument on twitter a lot today, it's ridiculous. Aki is committed to playing here until 2020, Zebo is gone in six months.

IRFU has a duty to protect the future of the provinces and thereby, the national team. Zebo knew himself he would likely he dropped according to Conor Murray today.

MJohnston

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Gas how Bundee Aki can just fly in and be representing Ireland yet Zebo who is born and bread in this country gets the chop. Poor form from Joe schmith and the RFU.

*bred
*Schmidt
*IRFU

And don’t make this into another xenophobic thing, the reasons for excluding Zebo have been well discussed in this thread in the last couple of pages. It’s far from poor form.

Beechwoodspark

ClanofLams wrote: »

I have seen this argument on twitter a lot today, it's ridiculous. Aki is committed to playing here until 2020, Zebo is gone in six months.

IRFU has a duty to protect the future of the provinces and thereby, the national team. Zebo knew himself he would likely he dropped according to Conor Murray today.

Zebo has parted ways with the Munster and Irish set up (and fair play to him, big money on the table).

But Joe's priority is to prepare Ireland for the World Cup.

We all know the consequences of Zebo's move. That's it in a nutshell.

Mantis Toboggan

The best players should be getting picked regardless of what club they are at. There was no problem for Sexton or Bowe beforehand.

Wegians89

Tyson Fury wrote: »

The best players should be getting picked regardless of what club they are at. There was no problem for Sexton or Bowe beforehand.

Zebo is replaceable sexton wasn't bowe is going back years totally different times

Squidgy Black

Tyson Fury wrote: »

The best players should be getting picked regardless of what club they are at. There was no problem for Sexton or Bowe beforehand.

Again, Sexton had it built into his contract that he could be available for training camps and AIs etc.

Zebo doesn't have that and has cut his ties with the IRFU setup by not accepting a contract. Why take the gamble on that?

Ospreys were also not a French squad and had a completely different playing schedule, one that allowed for him to attend training camps and be available.

If you're gonna make the argument, at least have valid points.

jacothelad

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Gas how Bundee Aki can just fly in and be representing Ireland yet Zebo who is born and bread in this country gets the chop. Poor form from Joe schmith and the RFU.

Aki didn't "just fly in and be representing Ireland." He uprooted himself from 12,000 miles away and trailed across the planet to a foreign culture. He has been here for over three years during which time he has put himself on the line endlessly in a brutal sport for his team. Also he could probably have doubled his salary in France but he chose not to do and he remained loyal to his team, team mates and fans.

Zebo has decided to follow the money in order to helpensure financial certainty into the future at the expense of playing for Ireland. He knew what he was likely to happen to his Ireland career so he bartered his 350,000 a year in Ireland for double that in France. Good for him.....and good for Aki for showing loyalty in the face of much criticism from many in the press and public and repaying the faith Connacht had in him.

connachta

jacothelad wrote: »

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Gas how Bundee Aki can just fly in and be representing Ireland yet Zebo who is born and bread in this country gets the chop. Poor form from Joe schmith and the RFU.

Aki didn't "just fly in and be representing Ireland." He uprooted himself from 12,000 miles away and trailed across the planet to a foreign culture. He has been here for over three years during which time he has put himself on the line endlessly in a brutal sport for his team. Also he could probably have doubled his salary in France but he chose not to do and he remained loyal to his team, team mates and fans.

Zebo has decided to follow the money in order to helpensure financial certainty into the future at the expense of playing for Ireland. He knew what he was likely to happen to his Ireland career so he bartered his 350,000 a year in Ireland for double that in France. Good for him.....and good for Aki for showing loyalty in the face of much criticism from many in the press and public and repaying the faith Connacht had in him.

THANK YOU

ThisRegard

Don't know why people have their knickers in a twist, the world and its dog, and especially Zebo, knew he would be walking away from a place on the national squad before he finalised his decision.

Erik Shin

Funny how Aki is now the poster boy for some, when previously many in here hoped he'd never be given the opportunity to wear an Ireland shirt

TheCitizen

That's a strange decision. You can't force players to remain in Ireland long term, it will unravel. And despite what the 'experts' on here might say, you can't have one rule for Sexton and another for everyone else.

The IRFU need to come up with some sort of middle ground, maybe a player can sign up to a 2 year contract in England or France and still be available to be picked for Ireland, but after that they will be told they'll be replaced. It's way too draconian as it is now.

The IRFU will be changing that policy sooner or later, that's for certain. The question is are they going to manage it with a bit of creativity or will they just react and firefight desperately.

jacothelad

Erik Shin wrote: »

Funny how Aki is now the poster boy for some, when previously many in here hoped he'd never be given the opportunity to wear an Ireland shirt

It just goes to show that people can see the error of their ways.

The Rape of Lucretia

TheCitizen wrote: »

And despite what the 'experts' on here might say, you can't have one rule for Sexton and another for everyone else.

Why not ?

The Rape of Lucretia

Erik Shin wrote: »

Funny how Aki is now the poster boy for some, when previously many in here hoped he'd never be given the opportunity to wear an Ireland shirt

To be fair though, others are more consistent.

Neil3030

Can we take a moment to appreciate how good Andrew Dunne has been lately on Off the Ball. Just a sound rugby man, who speaks very well and delivers his points as cool as the other side of the pillow.

prawnsambo

Erik Shin wrote: »

Funny how Aki is now the poster boy for some, when previously many in here hoped he'd never be given the opportunity to wear an Ireland shirt

It's only funny if the 'some' are the same as the 'many'.

Hastentoadd

Erik Shin wrote: »

Funny how Aki is now the poster boy for some, when previously many in here hoped he'd never be given the opportunity to wear an Ireland shirt

Can't say I have ever posted an opinion on foreign nationals representing Ireland. Suspect the reason is that would be stupid. All provinces have foreign nationals representing their team. So is a team somehow less by having foreign nationals on their team. I think not. I personally think it enhances the team and pushes the workrate of the Irish nationals to a new level. So I have no issue with the likes of Stander, Payne, Aki whatsoever breaking into our national team. It ups the bar for everybody which is only a good thing for everybody, as I see it

Erik Shin

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's only funny if the 'some' are the same as the 'many'.

It's the quiet ones you have to watch

Burkie1203

TheCitizen wrote: »

That's a strange decision. You can't force players to remain in Ireland long term, it will unravel. And despite what the 'experts' on here might say, you can't have one rule for Sexton and another for everyone else.

The IRFU need to come up with some sort of middle ground, maybe a player can sign up to a 2 year contract in England or France and still be available to be picked for Ireland, but after that they will be told they'll be replaced. It's way too draconian as it is now.

The IRFU will be changing that policy sooner or later, that's for certain. The question is are they going to manage it with a bit of creativity or will they just react and firefight desperately.

If players leave en masse, and i mean 6-7-8 top players from each province, that makes it harder for the provinces to remain competitive (in Europe especially). The knock on is loss of revenue which hurts the provinces even more.

Then the provinces have to recruit from outside which means added expense for players who have little value at national level. If they cant recruit top level guys Then guys coming into academies are playing in squads with a lower all round ability. So they arent training or playing at the same standard as now. The influence of overseas coaches at provinces has been huge. Attracting coaches of that standard then becomes tougher.

At national team level the prep time if players overseas are selected is reduced drastically because you will have guys rocking up with injuries/knocks. Or in need of recovery rest time. Currently the national side gets together 2 weeks before AI or 6n. They have proper lead in with releases to provinces managed on a gametime required basis.

For the provinces to remain competitive and the IRFU to remain strong financially (they fund the provinces substantially) we need a strong national side.

Otherwise we end up like the lovechild of Wales and Scotland.

IRFU have one trump card. There is also a pile of players out of contract next may. If they have international ambitions then they now know where they have to be to realise them.