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#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

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One side of the argument is that it empowers the victim to come forward, the ground swell of public opinion seems to be behind them.

The other side is the undermining the accused right to a fair defense.

What says Boards ?, a good thing or a bad thing.

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TheDavester

Common sense has gone out the window - we should really stop importing crap like this from America

professore

LIFE is uncomfortable. Try watching someone you love die in front of you. Now that's ****ing uncomfortable and painful.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

snowflaker

Crea wrote: »

Use this rule of thumb : don't say anything to a woman that you wouldn't want a big butch guy saying to you in prison.

Em, Hello big boy?

anewme

professore wrote: »

LIFE is uncomfortable. Try watching someone you love die in front of you. Now that's ****ing uncomfortable and painful.

That's all the more reason not to make life uncomfortable for someone else. Currently, I go to work, long hours, then to visit someone in hospital who won't be coming home.

Any unwanted comments, or unwanted harassment is not welcome and will be met with a fairly negative response.

You don't kniw what anyone else is going through.

Be kind, always.

One eyed Jack

take everything wrote: »

What are these guys doing in reaction to this. Is a backlash to bull**** from decent men long overdue.

Twitter being the equivalent of digital syphilis, I tend to avoid it.

Giving crap like this legitimacy only encourages them.

hatrickpatrick

Claire Byrne just now showing the "I've just seen Imelda Quirke's arse coming down a ladder!" scene from The Commitments and asking her panel of this is still "ok" to laugh at... Jesus f*cking Christ.

Grayson

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

How is a thread about sexual assault turns into women being sissys?

BTW, statistically the most successful people are rich white males or the sons of rich white males.

RayM

take everything wrote: »

I'm not talking about male feminist/trying-to-curry-favour-with-women types. I'm talking about proper masculine men.

How fucking old are you? Twelve?

Lone Stone

i seen it around facebook a few ppl i know posting it, but does this mean you were molested as a kid or sexually abused, raped or what ? like it's pretty unclear to me eh cause i dont pay attention to this stuff.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hatrickpatrick

Grayson wrote: »

How is a thread about sexual assault turns into women being sissys

Because this thread is not about sexual assault, it's about a hashtag. And that hashtag is being used to talk about everything from sexual assault to a TSA agent politely asking somebody for their phone number as a come-on.

See what happens when the line between genuine sexual assault and totally ordinary, harmless behaviour which a minority of hypersensitive muppets take massive offence to becomes as blurred as this?

See my analogy about alcoholism a few pages back. When those who campaign against genuine alcoholism start to include a person who has three pints of beer on a night out in their definition of a problem drinker, their entire message and their entire credibility goes out the window as people stop taking anything they say seriously. That's exactly what's happening to this hashtag, and sadly by extension, this much needed conversation about genuine sexual assault.

LLMMLL

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm not talking about situations where you get talking to a woman at a picnic randomly. You could easily get talking to a male colleague at a work event randomly. If you're standing at a bus stop, the bus is late , you make a comment to the woman next to you about the bus being late, you get chatting and things move from there. That's all fine. Could easily happen with two.men having a nice chat while waiting for the bus.

The example I gave of a female friend being harassed a few weeks ago was a guy approached her and said "I think you're beautiful can I have your number". He then continued bothering her after she said no but that initial approach is creepy.

I wonder how many of your and the other poster who met his gf at an airports friends made that kind of approach? I'm betting they all got talking in a friendly manner to these women over some random comment that they might easily have made to another male.

Basically if you approach a woman going about her daily business with he intention of coming onto her it's creepy.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LLMMLL

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

What were the interactions. Did you rock up to her at a work event and ask for her number Where you had previously only had professional conversations? Or had you had multiple friendly conversations previous to that where she was clearly flirting?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LLMMLL

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Right so you got talking to a colleague at a party and this eventually led to a sexual/romantic nature. Its really not the same thing as approaching a stranger And propositioning them straight away.

As for being her boss, I would call that more inappropriate workplace behaviour on your part than creepy. Presumably she gave plenty of signals that she was interested before it developed.

Where a boss situation would be creepy woild be if there were no signals given that the employee was interested. Most people can read these signals. Tight smiles when chatting. Trying to bring conversations to an end etc.

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm not talking about situations where you get talking to a woman at a picnic randomly. You could easily get talking to a male colleague at a work event randomly. If you're standing at a bus stop, the bus is late , you make a comment to the woman next to you about the bus being late, you get chatting and things move from there. That's all fine. Could easily happen with two.men having a nice chat while waiting for the bus.

The example I gave of a female friend being harassed a few weeks ago was a guy approached her and said "I think you're beautiful can I have your number". He then continued bothering her after she said no but that initial approach is creepy.

I wonder how many of your and the other poster who met his gf at an airports friends made that kind of approach? I'm betting they all got talking in a friendly manner to these women over some random comment that they might easily have made to another male.

Basically if you approach a woman going about her daily business with he intention of coming onto her it's creepy.

Em, sorry.. what?! In the cases the lads gave, I'm sure they were thinking before starting their interaction.. 'this girl is quite nice looking'. If you seriously think a guy, seeing a beautiful woman in an everyday situation and saying hello (or something else to start a conversation) is creepy.. you've got some issues.

Does it occur to you that said woman, may find the guy attractive and welcome the starting up of conversation? As long as the guy picks up whatever cues are being given, i.e. keep talking or go away, then what's the problem?

[Deleted User]

LLMMLL wrote: »

Right so you got talking to a colleague at a party and this eventually led to a sexual/romantic nature. Its really not the same thing as approaching a stranger And propositioning them straight away.

And that's an important difference. It's creepy when someone speaks about sex from the beginning, and obviously, expects a relationship to be a sexual relationship...

As for being her boss, I would call that more inappropriate workplace behaviour on your part than creepy. Presumably she gave plenty of signals that she was interested before it developed.

As you've seen on boards, and (hopefully in life) that peoples perception of events differs often in drastically different directions. You view his relationship in the workplace as being inappropriate. Whereas I think that they were two consenting adults (with the option of using the law to protect them against unwanted advances). His employer didn't have any rules against, and he still informed hus superiors, so it was hardly inappropiate.

Where a boss situation would be creepy woild be if there were no signals given that the employee was interested. Most people can read these signals. Tight smiles when chatting. Trying to bring conversations to an end etc.

Body language is a marketing gimmick. Does it work? Sure. Sometimes. For some people. In some cultures. In some circumstances. Is it a reliable guide to someone's thoughts? Nope.

Most people learn to read others to a certain level, but it's hardly reliable. There are simply too many factors to take into account unless you're willing to spend all your time developing it as a primary skill, and even then it remains inaccurate.

The example I gave of a female friend being harassed a few weeks ago was a guy approached her and said "I think you're beautiful can I have your number". He then continued bothering her after she said no but that initial approach is creepy.

If he had complimented her honestly, and withdrawn when she refused, it probably wouldn't have been creepy.

These things come down to both individuals perceptions, how they're feeling at that given time and the manner in which an approach is made. If the guy is seeking sex, the vast majority of women will pick that up from his manner and tone. If he's being honest and confident without drawing an agenda, there's a good chance that the woman will take it as the compliment it was intended to be. Some women won't. You can't cater to everyone.

But any pestering, repeat behavior etc in the face of a refusal is creepy. (Regardless of whether its a man or a woman doing it.)

Five years ago, I worked in a school where I asked my boss out for dating. She initially refused, I stepped back without acting hurt or stupid, and a week later she asked me out. We spent three years together.

The way people behave and their expectations determine how creepy something is. Not the act in itself... although I'm sure we can both find some acts that are always creepy regardless of who performs it. Asking a girl out shouldn't automatically be one of them. It's already difficult enough without adding more.

__..__

Lone Stone wrote: »

i seen it around facebook a few ppl i know posting it, but does this mean you were molested as a kid or sexually abused, raped or what ? like it's pretty unclear to me eh cause i dont pay attention to this stuff.

It means a man has at least looked at them during their lives. Don't look at or speak to a woman again and you'll be ok.

professore

anewme wrote: »

professore wrote: »

LIFE is uncomfortable. Try watching someone you love die in front of you. Now that's ****ing uncomfortable and painful.

That's all the more reason not to make life uncomfortable for someone else. Currently, I go to work, long hours, then to visit someone in hospital who won't be coming home.

Any unwanted comments, or unwanted harassment is not welcome and will be met with a fairly negative response.

You don't kniw what anyone else is going through.

Be kind, always.

That works both ways. Maybe what you see as negative comments or attention are someone just looking to chat, or glancing a microsecond too long at your boobs. Maybe they are trying to read some dumb text written across your t-shirt or ass, or get a better look at a tattoo. Maybe they mistake you for someone else they banter with like an old friend. Maybe they've just caught their girlfriend in bed with their best friend and aren't in a charitable mood to women. Who knows?

professore

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

How to handle sexual comments, Commitments-style.

Deco: "I've a bugle here you can blow on."
Natalie: "I've an arse here you can kiss."[/quote]
Both are guilty of sexual harassment. #MeToo

professore

Deleted User wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Right so you got talking to a colleague at a party and this eventually led to a sexual/romantic nature. Its really not the same thing as approaching a stranger And propositioning them straight away.

And that's an important difference. It's creepy when someone speaks about sex from the beginning, and obviously, expects a relationship to be a sexual relationship...

As for being her boss, I would call that more inappropriate workplace behaviour on your part than creepy. Presumably she gave plenty of signals that she was interested before it developed.

As you've seen on boards, and (hopefully in life) that peoples perception of events differs often in drastically different directions. You view his relationship in the workplace as being inappropriate. Whereas I think that they were two consenting adults (with the option of using the law to protect them against unwanted advances). His employer didn't have any rules against, and he still informed hus superiors, so it was hardly inappropiate.

Where a boss situation would be creepy woild be if there were no signals given that the employee was interested. Most people can read these signals. Tight smiles when chatting. Trying to bring conversations to an end etc.

Body language is a marketing gimmick. Does it work? Sure. Sometimes. For some people. In some cultures. In some circumstances. Is it a reliable guide to someone's thoughts? Nope.

Most people learn to read others to a certain level, but it's hardly reliable. There are simply too many factors to take into account unless you're willing to spend all your time developing it as a primary skill, and even then it remains inaccurate.

The example I gave of a female friend being harassed a few weeks ago was a guy approached her and said "I think you're beautiful can I have your number". He then continued bothering her after she said no but that initial approach is creepy.

If he had complimented her honestly, and withdrawn when she refused, it probably wouldn't have been creepy.

These things come down to both individuals perceptions, how they're feeling at that given time and the manner in which an approach is made. If the guy is seeking sex, the vast majority of women will pick that up from his manner and tone. If he's being honest and confident without drawing an agenda, there's a good chance that the woman will take it as the compliment it was intended to be. Some women won't. You can't cater to everyone.

But any pestering, repeat behavior etc in the face of a refusal is creepy. (Regardless of whether its a man or a woman doing it.)

Five years ago, I worked in a school where I asked my boss out for dating. She initially refused, I stepped back without acting hurt or stupid, and a week later she asked me out. We spent three years together.

The way people behave and their expectations determine how creepy something is. Not the act in itself... although I'm sure we can both find some acts that are always creepy regardless of who performs it. Asking a girl out shouldn't automatically be one of them. It's already difficult enough without adding more.

There are a million reasons a woman doesn't go out with you initially when you first ask her. All depends on the context. You can't make hard and fast rules about human relationships.

neonsofa

professore wrote: »

Maybe they've just caught their girlfriend in bed with their best friend and aren't in a charitable mood to women. Who knows?

Lol, not leering at a woman is charitable

The other day two guys quite loudly rated me out of 10. They debated whether I lost a mark or not for the fact I seemed stuck up. Stuck up cause I wasn't smiling at them while I listened to them rate my appearance. I didn't deserve that just because they may have been annoyed at their girlfriend for sleeping with someone. It doesn't justify it. I don't treat men like **** just because I've been wronged by men in the past or treat all people with the name Kelly like **** because a Kelly wronged me in the past. What a strange argument.

B0jangles

professore wrote: »

That works both ways. Maybe what you see as negative comments or attention are someone just looking to chat, or glancing a microsecond too long at your boobs. Maybe they are trying to read some dumb text written across your t-shirt or ass, or get a better look at a tattoo. Maybe they mistake you for someone else they banter with like an old friend. Maybe they've just caught their girlfriend in bed with their best friend and aren't in a charitable mood to women. Who knows?

The poster you quoted was suggesting that if in any doubt whatsoever, leave people alone, don't assume they want to interact with you. Frankly, they owe you (or any other randomer on the street) nothing, not even a scrap of attention.

No-one, no matter what their state of mind* or how good their intentions are, is entitled to be listened to, or have attention paid to them by random people who catch their eye. A polite brush-off is a bonus, but again, it's not something to be expected.

If you force someone to pay attention to you, you don't get to act all aggrieved when they tell you to piss off.

*except for the obvious, hardly-need-to-be-stated exception of persons in deep distress like for example if they are experiencing suicidal thoughts.

engol

professore wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/i-was-sexually-harassed-says-rt-weather-presenter-joanna-donnelly-36249564.html

This kind of thing is what pisses people off. I'm not referring to the anonymous letter, I'm referring to the "sexual harrassment" of some guy asking her out a few times and she saying no to him. Nothing more. Who has this not happened to, male or female, someone you don't fancy chasing you?

Calls into question the credibility of her whole narrative. Then a mention of her book at the end. Makes a mockery of genuine cases.

Just so that you are 100% on this; repeatedly asking a colleague out, in the work place, and not taking a definitive no for an answer (can't believe I have to spell this out) IS harassment and is most definitely not allowed. And, "who has this not happened to" is the whole point of the #MeToo campaign. The WHOLE point.

There is no book, the point of the reference to the book title "names have been changed to protect the guilty" is a point in itself. We read the line "names have been changed to protect the innocent" without ever ever questioning why the innocent need protecting. But here comes the point again, the reason they need protecting is because they are routinely turned in to the guilty party. For complaining. And this is across the spectrum, from annoying requests for dates to physical violence.

[Deleted User]

engol wrote: »

Just so that you are 100% on this; repeatedly asking a colleague out, in the work place, and not taking a definitive no for an answer (can't believe I have to spell this out) IS harassment and is most definitely not allowed. And, "who has this not happened to" is the whole point of the #MeToo campaign. The WHOLE point.

The magic word is repeatedly. Doing it once isn't harassment. Even doing it twice isn't harassment unless the person has been very obvious in their rejection.

But you're right. If anyone gives a definitive refusal, then any further behavior is harassment and is wrong.

B0jangles

Waterford Whispers have done a piece about the reaction to #metoo

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/10/23/ladies-youre-going-to-want-to-hear-my-opinion-on-this-metoo-business/

No comment.

(lol)

midlandsmissus

__..__ wrote: »

Lone Stone wrote: »

i seen it around facebook a few ppl i know posting it, but does this mean you were molested as a kid or sexually abused, raped or what ? like it's pretty unclear to me eh cause i dont pay attention to this stuff.

Hi

It means a man has at least looked at them during their lives. Don't look at or speak to a woman again and you'll be ok.

Oh f*CK off. I hate this 'oblivious' ****.
I'm just reading an article from an Irish woman on why she used #metoo. She said in her primary school, the principal would call them up one at a time to the desk to recite something, and that each of the students spent the time trying to dodge his fingers under the desk.
This has happened to all of us, touching, not looking, not talking. I refuse to live in a world where this happens anymore or to listen to entitled men who dismiss it out of hand.
The time has come where women will no longer be treated the way they were.