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Certificate

metricspaces

I am getting a few electrical jobs done and wondering if I need a certificate from the electrician?

The work I want done is a flood light front and back of house, and an external socket.

The flood light at the front, the electrician is taking the power from supply in front bedroom.
The rear flood light, he said he'll take the power from the fuse board (as it's at the back door).
The external socket, he is taking power from existing power supply to sockets inside the house.

I couldn't figure out from this site here if the work I want done needs a certificate http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Topics/Electricity/Inspection_and_Testing/Works_Needing_Certification/.

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2011

It sounds like the work you are having done falls under the definition of “minor electrical works”, if so it does not require a certification and does not have to be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor. There is more information about this and links in the forum charter above.

[Deleted User]

Just because you don't have to use an REC doesn't mean that you should.

We can be talking life or death with electricity. Regardless of the law I'd be very careful whole I let work on my electricity system

meercat

2011 wrote: »

It sounds like the work you are having done falls under the definition of “minor electrical works”, if so it does not require a certification and does not have to be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor. There is more information about this and links in the forum charter above.

Not sure if you're correct
He's installing a new circuit by taking power from fuse board for back light
This needs a rec and certificate imho

Bruthal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Just because you don't have to use an REC doesn't mean that you should.

We can be talking life or death with electricity. Regardless of the law I'd be very careful whole I let work on my electricity system

All the same, id rather work on my own one, than let anyone else at it.

[Deleted User]

Bruthal wrote:

All the same, id rather work on my own one, than let anyone else at it.

Hey I'd be happy for you to rewire my house. I'd sleep at night knowing it was done right. With or without a cert. It's up to the homeowner to make sure that they have quality tradesmen at all times.

Bruthal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Hey I'd be happy for you to rewire my house. I'd sleep at night knowing it was done right. With or without a cert. It's up to the homeowner to make sure that they have quality tradesmen at all times.

Ill let you put in the shower so:D

metricspaces

Thanks for the replies. The electrician is a REC. I was just wondering if I need to get a certificate. Sounds like no need?

I had a look at the links in forum charter but I couldn't see a definition/list of what “minor electrical works” are. Maybe I missed it. Where can I find this info?

Why would a qualified electrician working on domestic jobs not be a REC? It sounds like they'd be excluding themselves from the vast majority of electrical works, so it seems a bit odd.

2011

meercat wrote: »

Not sure if you're correct
He's installing a new circuit by taking power from fuse board for back light
This needs a rec and certificate imho

My mistake, you are 100% correct.
Apologies OP, the new circuit means that a REC should be used and a certificate issued.

metricspaces

I checked the forum charter again. It says "Further clarification on minor electrical works was obtained by email from CER can be seen here.". The link referenced does not work for me.

Does a new circuit mean that there will be a separate switch on the fuse board for the light on the back of the house? And if there's isn't a separate switch then no new circut.

Risteard81

It's unclear whether this is a new circuit, or whether it is being added to an existing lighting circuit at the distribution board. The latter would technically be minor works although not very different to the former.

The safest advice would be to use a REC. You have a right to request a certificate for minor works if you want one, even though it is not a requirement.

EHP

metricspaces wrote:

The work I want done is a flood light front and back of house, and an external socket. The flood light at the front, the electrician is taking the power from supply in front bedroom.The rear flood light, he said he'll take the power from the fuse board (as it's at the back door).The external socket, he is taking power from existing power supply to sockets inside the house. I couldn't figure out from this site here if the work I want done needs a certificate

If he has to remove the cover from the fuse board to connect the light he has to issue a cert 3.

Stoner

Bruthal wrote:

All the same, id rather work on my own one, than let anyone else at it.

Most electricians prefer when I do the work in my own house too.

#fussyfecker

metricspaces

EHP wrote: »

metricspaces wrote:

The work I want done is a flood light front and back of house, and an external socket. The flood light at the front, the electrician is taking the power from supply in front bedroom.The rear flood light, he said he'll take the power from the fuse board (as it's at the back door).The external socket, he is taking power from existing power supply to sockets inside the house. I couldn't figure out from this site here if the work I want done needs a certificate

If he has to remove the cover from the fuse board to connect the light he has to issue a cert 3.

The work has been done. See pic below of how the wires is coming from the fuse box to the outside light. The electrician had the plastic casing for the fuse box off. But there is no new switch for this light on the fuse box. Electrician says I don't need a cert. Am I ok here?

This is a new build house. The electrician who did this work is the electrician who did the electrics in the original build. So I presume he's a REC.

free picture hosting site

EHP

metricspaces wrote:

The work has been done. See pic below of how the wires is coming from the fuse box to the outside light. The electrician had the plastic casing for the fuse box off. But there is no new switch for this light on the fuse box. Electrician says I don't need a cert. Am I ok here?

See below part of the definition of restricted works.

"the modification, installation or replacement of a Distribution Board including customer tails on either side of the Main Protective Device"

"Restricted Electrical Works under the Restricted Electrical Works under the Electricity Regulation Act 1999, as amended, are defined as electrical works that can only be carried out and must be certified by a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC). Restricted Electrical Works encompass most electrical works in a domestic premises"

In my opinion your board has been modified.

metricspaces

EHP wrote: »

In my opinion your board has been modified.

Thanks. So should I go back to him and ask for a cert 3?

What do I need the cert 3 for?

I don't want to appear overly fussy. Is a cert 3 is something that a homeowner would normally expect to receive from the electrician without asking (if the electrician has made changes to distribution board, as in my case)?

Risteard81

EHP wrote: »

In my opinion your board has been modified.

If he has connected into an existing circuit then I cannot see how you come to that conclusion. As I say, however, the safest advice would be to use a REC and request a certificate for the works if you want one. (The REC is obliged to provide one if you so request it.)

metricspaces

Risteard81 wrote: »

If he has connected into an existing circuit then )

Thanks. Am I correct in thinking that if he created a new circuit there would be a new switch on the distribution board for this new circuit?

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

If he has connected into an existing circuit then I cannot see how you come to that conclusion.

Are you serious???
The picture says it all. Whether the cable was added to an existing circuit or not is irrelevant, work has been carried out on the distribution board, therefore it has been modified, hence a very is obligatory, no excuses, end of.

As I say, however, the safest advice would be to use a REC

Although as can be seen choose your REC carefully as the quality of work can be disappointing.

Risteard81

Connecting into an existing circuit via an MCB is modification of the circuit and not modification of the distribution board. Can you genuinely not understand this? There is no evidence to suggest that such works meet the legal definition of Restricted Electrical Works but perhaps you feel competent in legislative matters to decree otherwise.

That didn't alter my advice to use a Registered Electrical Contractor and request a certificate anyway though.

meercat

I have to agree here(with 2011)
A new circuit is installed irrespective of whether or not he connected it to a separate mcb and work is done on the distribution board so a Cert should be issued

Question to the op
Where did he fit the isolation switch for the new outside light?

metricspaces

meercat wrote: »

I have to agree here(with 2011)
Question to the op
Where did he fit the isolation switch for the new outside light?

The isolation switch is underneath the distribution board.

Lots of conflicting opinions here. Wondering are posters of differing opinions all REC's, could you let me know please?

Surely this is black/white, is it not a straightforward enough piece of work he did?

metricspaces

Risteard81 wrote: »

There is no evidence to suggest that such works meet the legal definition of Restricted Electrical Works

That didn't alter my advice to use a Registered Electrical Contractor and request a certificate anyway though.

I'm confused by this post. Are these two paragraphs not contradictory?

I thought I could only get a Cert 3 if Restricted Electrical Works were carried out?

So if you say Restricted Electrical Works were not carried out then why would I ask for a Cert 3 when one is not required? I'll just be told one is not required, so why ask?

metricspaces

2011 wrote: »

Although as can be seen choose your REC carefully as the quality of work can be disappointing.

What do you find disappointing about the quality of the work in my photo? PM me if you prefer, I'm no expert so would like to know

meercat

metricspaces wrote: »

The isolation switch is underneath the distribution board.

Lots of conflicting opinions here. Wondering are posters of differing opinions all REC's, could you let me know please?

Surely this is black/white, is it not a straightforward enough piece of work he did?

I am a rec. if any client requests a certificate then I will provide one whether or not I'm required to by my regulatory body

[Deleted User]

metricspaces wrote:

So if you say Restricted Electrical Works were not carried out then why would I ask for a Cert 3 when one is not required? I'll just be told one is not required, so why ask?

Any work carried out on the fusebox is restricted AFAIK. It's illegal for me to even take the cover off the fusebox let alone work on it.

metricspaces

meercat wrote: »

metricspaces wrote: »

The isolation switch is underneath the distribution board.

Lots of conflicting opinions here. Wondering are posters of differing opinions all REC's, could you let me know please?

Surely this is black/white, is it not a straightforward enough piece of work he did?

I am a rec. if any client requests a certificate then I will provide one whether or not I'm required to by my regulatory body

Thanks! You were asking where the isolation switch was. Was there a reason? Does where it's located sound ok (below the distribution board)?

meercat

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks! You were asking where the isolation switch was. Was there a reason? Does where it's located sound ok (below the distribution board)?

Just checking if one was installed

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

Connecting into an existing circuit via an MCB is modification of the circuit and not modification of the distribution board.

So you agree it is a modification, that is a start. This modification occurs in the board and involves connection to multiple parts of the board, an MCB, neutral bar and earth bar. Therefore it is a modification to the board, simple as that.

If we were to follow your logic anyone can work on a distribution board once they connect onto an existing circuit. The alarm installers will think all of their birthdays have come at once! They refuse to even remove the cover of a board, this is why REC's frequently leave a spur outlet for them.

There is no evidence to suggest that such works meet the legal definition of Restricted Electrical Works but perhaps you feel competent in legislative matters to decree otherwise.

No evidence??? :eek:
Seriously?

Perhaps you should read EHP's post:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105075429&postcount=15

Bruthal

Risteard81 wrote: »

Connecting into an existing circuit via an MCB is modification of the circuit and not modification of the distribution board. Can you genuinely not understand this? There is no evidence to suggest that such works meet the legal definition of Restricted Electrical Works but perhaps you feel competent in legislative matters to decree otherwise.

I guess then the non REC can wire 5 or 6 more lights and switches in, and its perfectly ok once they dont connect to a spare MCB.

Or will a spare existing MCB also mean the board was not altered?

EHP

metricspaces wrote:

Thanks. So should I go back to him and ask for a cert 3?

Yes ask for a cert 3 he should have issued it even if you didn't ask for it. If he refuses you can make a complaint to RECI as he is a REC they will follow up with him.

metricspaces wrote:

What do I need the cert 3 for?

You don't need a cert 3 until something goes wrong and then you have a paper trail. The Cert should insure your REC has completed all the necessary testing on the circuits he has installed.

Risteard81 wrote:

If he has connected into an existing circuit then I cannot see how you come to that conclusion.

Definition of modify

"to change somewhat the form or qualities of; alter partially; amend"

Again in my opinion that board has been modified. When in doubt I always ask what I think a judge would think.

metricspaces wrote:

Lots of conflicting opinions here. Wondering are posters of differing opinions all REC's, could you let me know please?

Yes I'm a REC and also have been advised by Safe Electric Inspectors that once you have to remove the cover off a board it is restricted works.

metricspaces wrote:

I thought I could only get a Cert 3 if Restricted Electrical Works were carried out?

If restricted or controlled works are carried out the REC has to issue a Cert.

If minor works are completed a cert only has to be issued if requested by the customer, a REC can't refuse to issue a cert for works they carried out but will charge extra for the cert as the testing and paperwork will add time to any job.