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ASTI Ballot results SEE MOD ANNOUNCEMENT IN LAST POST*

Icsics

The ballot closed this evening, will we get a result tonight?

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wirelessdude01

km79 wrote:

Hoping for a clear strategy to be outlined over the next few days . Wait and see is not an option

ASTI CEC isn't meeting until mid Nov at the earliest so waiting and seeing is the only option. Wrong one at that if you ask me.

judeboy101

Train drivers doing 5days next month you can guarantee they will get a deal, imagine what deal we would get if 5 days of no primary school?

km79

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

ASTI CEC isn't meeting until mid Nov at the earliest so waiting and seeing is the only option. Wrong one at that if you ask me.

Assume all 3 unions are going to come together over the next week or 2
Surely ?

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote:

Assume all 3 unions are going to come together over the next week or 2 Surely ?

That would make sense but then again it is teaching unions we are talking about here.

Realistically they should have already been coming together with a strategy in anticipation of this result.

SligoBrewer

I like that Croke Park idea that's being floated about at the minute.

2011abc

What idea ?

km79

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I like that Croke Park idea that's being floated about at the minute.

Which is what ?
The same thing we did last year and gained nothing ?

acequion

km79 wrote: »

Which is what ?
The same thing we did last year and gained nothing ?

No guys. Take a look over at the fightback facebook page and you'll see what they mean:

https://www.facebook.com/a.fightback/

They're talking about the biggest mass rally of teachers in the history of the state, held in Croke Park in 1985. Teachers unions meant business back then and consequently got results. Fightback and their counterpoints on TUI are revving up for action,which I think is great and are suggesting a similar type of rally to be followed by industrial action.

I completely agree that we must see action this time. I'm so grateful to still have the loyalty of the majority No people that I feel it's imperative it not be wasted.Sitting back on our hands in passive resistance,which I personally was happy enough with, inevitably weakened us and brought about the special convention. I, for one, am totally committed to not allowing that to happen this time.

But there can't be a CEC meeting until mid November as the next two Saturdays will be the mid term break. I would sincerely hope that by that stage ground work will have been done.

gaiscioch

Delighted with the result, but more disillusioned than ever with the existence of three teacher unions. It's a badge of utter stupidity by the teachers of Ireland. Divide and conquer. There is no justification for it, and we alone are the ones to suffer from it. Three unions are an open invitation to each government of each generation to extract concessions from us by playing one teachers' union off against another.

Let the 3rd level academics/researchers in the TUI move to IFUT and amalgamate either both secondary school unions, or them and the INTO.

A unified, single teachers' union would make every government take notice. I can only conclude that it is vested interests within the ASTI and TUI worring about their little political careers who are stopping the most beneficial single move both unions could do immediately. What other rational objection is there to a single union? It's long past time that teachers regrouped and got greater efficiencies and impact by uniting our teacher unions now.

Terri26

I've a feeling CEC will be sooner rather than later. Possibly before we go back to school. We've had to meet before during holidays.

feardeas

Just a few observations. In general turnout across all three unions was quite low and ASTI and TUI were school ballots. ASTI was far closer than I thought, in fact if those percentages had held last Spring then it would have been a different story given the number of people who left.

I think the idea of a rally in Croke Park is pure daft and I do not mean to offend anyone by saying that at all. The three unions have an opportunity to press the case relentlessly at the talks about lower pay that have begun. Bruton talking about shortages last week gives a context and potential cover for the government to do something. There may be stirrings, to do something in a knee jerk way now would be silly. For those who do not believe in talks I remind you that the Bus drivers, hitting OAPs largely and they tend to vote a lot, were out for three weeks and ended up accepting the original offer. Sanity is needed at times. Anyway we shall see but I have a feeling that not one hour of action will come from any of the three unions on this.

deiseindublin

So what should be done feardeas, give up now? :rolleyes:

spurious

Just to point out that while TUI school ballots may seem handier for people to vote at, many ETB colleges have an equal number of members in out centres that may not visit the main college more than a couple of times a year. Not all the members in a school would work in that location.

deiseindublin

Personally, I'd prefer to vote by post myself, not in school but the usual 'couldn't be bothered' brigade would bring the count down massively.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

Personally, I'd prefer to vote by post myself, not in school but the usual 'couldn't be bothered' brigade would bring the count down massively.

a lot of people have their home address as their permanent address, not their current in term address. In school ballots are better, but awkward for those who just changed jobs in September or are new into the union.

man_no_plan

2011abc wrote: »

Figures of 46 and 47% quoted by SIPTU official from recent surveys on Matt Cooper radio show this evening .

Thanks. It's the general population then, not teaching, there's a good bit of it around in retail and hospitality alright.

SligoBrewer

man_no_plan wrote: »

Thanks. It's the general population then, not teaching, there's a good bit of it around in retail and hospitality alright.

Every sub teacher is on a zero hours contract so you can deduce figures from that.

man_no_plan

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Every sub teacher is on a zero hours contract so you can deduce figures from that.

Not really

r93kaey5p2izun

Actual zero hours contracts have been common in my ETB. Each school had 3-5 people on zero hours contracts to cover all substitution. Nothing shorter than a maternity leave is advertised and these teachers cover everything. They may, after November, be given a few timetabled hours too, but the contract remains the same and most of their work is day to day subbing. I see many schools in my ETB are still advertising for such an arrangement at the moment. They have struggled to get people this year, though there are two people in my school doing it.

MrJones1973

A no vote is a no vote even though I voted Yes. My hope is now three unions put a ballot to all three unions calling for industrial action. Such a ballot should have a proviso that all three unions must back ballot or at least two .
Then we have some chance. I have always said I would back industrial action if balloted.
A year of a phoney war again would be disastrous.

Margin doesn't matter.

r93kaey5p2izun

TUI already voted for industrial action. It was done along with the ballot on the agreement.

Sir123

As mentioned numerous times, strike action must commence within the next few weeks at earliest.

I have just seen what Glór (INTO) have proposed in terms of how a strike might work for them. They also mentioned that these so called "talks" are only stringing unions along to buy indefinite time for when no union action could possibly result in an infuriated membership which thus results in a re-ballot and hence acceptance.

We must therefore get out of these talks after midterm if nothing is happening and as Glór have said, we must make our strike plans known to government, on paper, to show them that all three teacher unions are determined to go on strike until this is sorted.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

Just a few observations. In general turnout across all three unions was quite low and ASTI and TUI were school ballots. ASTI was far closer than I thought, in fact if those percentages had held last Spring then it would have been a different story given the number of people who left.

I think the idea of a rally in Croke Park is pure daft and I do not mean to offend anyone by saying that at all. The three unions have an opportunity to press the case relentlessly at the talks about lower pay that have begun. Bruton talking about shortages last week gives a context and potential cover for the government to do something. There may be stirrings, to do something in a knee jerk way now would be silly. For those who do not believe in talks I remind you that the Bus drivers, hitting OAPs largely and they tend to vote a lot, were out for three weeks and ended up accepting the original offer. Sanity is needed at times. Anyway we shall see but I have a feeling that not one hour of action will come from any of the three unions on this.

Why on earth would a mass rally of all three teacher unions be "pure daft"? While I appreciate that you have different politics to the more militant of us, can you not see that there is absolutely nothing daft about people power in action and nothing daft in uniting, mobilising, marching,for a common cause? Just look at the Catalans! Now despite my having close ties with Spain I haven't had the time to keep myself well informed, but by all accounts the Catalans have no legal basis for their demands yet try telling them that! We Irish,the middle classes especially, have become too bloody gentrified over the years and also far too submissive. Back in 1985 Ireland was on its knees yet teachers had the brass balls to bring the country to a standstill demanding a pay rise and were in no way shy about it. Fast forward to 2017,a healthy economy and teachers want nothing more than the unquestionably fair pay equality and they're almost apologetic about it!

As for talking,I full agree with Sir123 and with Glor. Talking is only a ploy. It's a time waster and a campaign weakener. Grand if you're talking to reasonable people but over the past few years talking to Govt or their representatives has achieved sweet feck all. We need only look back less than a year ago, to the disastrous TCC Perry talks which completely destroyed momentum in a promising campaign. Almost everybody, yes and no people alike, now agree that going into those talks was a fatal error. I hope to god we're not about to repeat the same mistake!

A properly organised joint campaign by all three unions and all three unions hell bent on success is the only thing which will guarantee a result. Failing that, a joint campaign by the two second level unions might get us somewhere but obviously it wouldn't be as effective.

All fingers and toes crossed for the best outcome!

joebloggs32

Don't expect any action before January. There are pay rises still to kick in for the LPTs and any action now would threaten that. Once they get them then it might be time to push a few buttons.

Kneebreaker

Too many pushing for appeasement when the Wolf is at the door. The minister has no respect for the teaching profession and is actively looking to break the union. Actively.

Those of us who worked in the UK have seen the blueprint enacted over there. Government are just following that plan almost to the letter. It worked in England, it will work here. The 'I'm-alright-Jack' mentality of some teachers is not gonna cut it. You cannot negotiate without goodwill and the minister has none for us. Make no mistake; our pay, standards, conditions and workload are under attack.

A line has to be drawn in the sand.

acequion

Kneebreaker wrote: »

Too many pushing for appeasement when the Wolf is at the door. The minister has no respect for the teaching profession and is actively looking to break the union. Actively.

Those of us who worked in the UK have seen the blueprint enacted over there. Government are just following that plan almost to the letter. It worked in England, it will work here. The 'I'm-alright-Jack' mentality of some teachers is not gonna cut it. You cannot negotiate without goodwill and the minister has none for us. Make no mistake; our pay, standards, conditions and workload are under attack.

A line has to be drawn in the sand.

Chilling words. But 100% true. The above should be enlarged, emboldened and put on every staff notice board in the country. Maybe the "I'm-alright-Jack" brigade will start to take notice when there's a run on their pensions!

But I really hope, Kneebreaker, that you're actively involved. With your blunt, no nonsense approach and first hand experience of the UK, you are exactly what the union needs.

MrJones1973

What is Glor? Mentioned in terms of INTO ?

MrJones1973

If the asti proposes strike action with or without the other unions then I shall vote yes. Though being realistic the average member needs to know TUI are striking too- to get such a ballot passed or the INTO for that matter.

Strike action is the only action that would rattle Bruton

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

What is Glor? Mentioned in terms of INTO ?

It's their version of fightback, grassroots movement etc.

wirelessdude01

Mrwhite1970 wrote:

What is Glor? Mentioned in terms of INTO ?

Similar to fightback. Full of LPTs organising themselves to make sure that the issue is consistently raised at every meeting.