anewme wrote: » I don't recall attractiveness being mentioned at all until you said it. A persons personality dictates their attractiveness. A person immediately becomes ugly and unattractive when they harass someone. Case in point Did Ben Affleck not get into trouble and have to apologise for groping someone recently?
brooke 2 wrote: » . Picture a drooling Harvey Weinstein sitting across from her! Ugh!! :mad:
Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: » I still have FB "friends" that have the opaque French Flag in their profile pic.
brooke 2 wrote: » FFS! How about men just having the cop on to exert enough self control not to ogle women. Perhaps the burka is needed to remove temptation from poor helpless men!!
Outlaw Pete wrote: » Ah in fairness I think what klaz was trying to say was... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL-1kHxsavI
anna080 wrote: » That poster is a woman
Wibbs wrote: » Great question A. Personally speaking? Nobody and I mean Nobody, man or woman should be harassed and most certainly not assaulted because of how they dress. However, if anyone, man or woman is given more attention because of how they dress(or act), that kinda goes with the territory. If I walked into a bar in Barcelona tonight wearing a Spanish flag Tee shirt that had the words Madrid forever, if anyone attacked me they would be dickheads, but I would have been unwise. Many moons ago I knew a few gym types. Mad into their lifting weights and such. One guy was a monster and a roided one at that. Looked like Arnie on a good day. He was wearing a spray on white tee, where you could damn near see the bulging veins on his many muscles. He got off on that as did the women(and a couple of men) who dug that sorta thing in the group. And fair enough. Later on in the evening he complained about some woman at the bar who admired and got a bit handsie over his pecs. Was she a tool? Yes. Was he a bit thick to not see why he might have attracted such a tool? Equally yes. On the other hand I do think that where does one draw the line. I mean pensioners have been raped often enough. But I would generally think rapists are another group of mental cases. Those who react to attention grabbing dress are a different breed as a general rule.
Wibbs wrote: » That's a common notion, but mostly a fallacious one IMHO. And it is hard for most men to see that difference. I mean if you're grabbed by the man jewels by some granny on a hen do that's gross, but if she was a babe, it would be more likely "well helllllooo". I would agree that women in general do feel more socially vulnerable. Physically too. I mean, let's face it, as a man neither the "granny" nor the "babe" can exactly pull you into a dark corner and feel you up without your say so. There is a marked difference there.
Sweetemotion wrote: » Have you never looked at an attractive man in the street?
brooke 2 wrote: » Yes. 'Look' being the operative word. I have better manners than to 'ogle'!!
brooke 2 wrote: » In even greater fairness, the original comment had to do with a woman sitting on a bus being subjected to the unwelcome stares of a man sitting across from her. The situation in the video bears no resemblance to that.
Deleted User wrote: » If a woman dresses in a manner that promotes her breasts as showpieces, then she hasn't a real objection to men staring at them.
Deleted User wrote: » Agreed. But then there's also clothing/bra's which seek to draw the attention of others to that area. If a woman dresses in a manner that promotes her breasts as showpieces, then she hasn't a real objection to men staring at them. If she doesn't want that attention, wear a coat, or some other article of clothing that covers her breasts. Or wear a bra that doesn't emphasize their size/shape through her clothes. It's like the women who wear a top, and the bra can be seen very easily through that top, and then complains that men are staring. Women do have a responsibility for their own appearance. If you're going to dress sexy, you're going to get attention. Postive and negative attention.
Outlaw Pete wrote: » Ah in fairness I think what klaz was trying to say was...
professore wrote: » I think it's at least 20 years since I saw a girl being wolf whistled. Does this still happen? If so why have I never seen it?
neonsofa wrote: » professore wrote: » Well maybe because decent men are the most unappreciated members of modern society? The ones that risk their lives, bust their asses every day to provide for their loved ones without complaining or ever looking for recognition or reward. No. They are all evil rapists. But those men are decent for the reasons you list above, not purely due to the fact that they didn't harass a woman on a night out. You're complaining that men are viewed as evil rapists yet you told another poster that she should post on twitter thanking men for not grabbing her on nights out. Basically saying that men should be applauded and hailed as decent men when they don't harass and rape women. It makes no sense. Can you not see why i am confused by your posts??
professore wrote: » Well maybe because decent men are the most unappreciated members of modern society? The ones that risk their lives, bust their asses every day to provide for their loved ones without complaining or ever looking for recognition or reward. No. They are all evil rapists.
brooke 2 wrote: » Wibbs wrote: » That's a common notion, but mostly a fallacious one IMHO. And it is hard for most men to see that difference. I mean if you're grabbed by the man jewels by some granny on a hen do that's gross, but if she was a babe, it would be more likely "well helllllooo". I would agree that women in general do feel more socially vulnerable. Physically too. I mean, let's face it, as a man neither the "granny" nor the "babe" can exactly pull you into a dark corner and feel you up without your say so. There is a marked difference there. Came across a skit video re Education about Sexual Harassment in the Workplace. Set in Mad Men era. Attractive blonde is seated at her workplace. Nerdy guy from the office nervously approaches her to ask for a date. She immediately reaches for the phone to complain to HR about harassment. Next arrives Tom Brady (New England Patriots), dressed only in a shirt and gleaming white bulging (very!) jocks! He asks the same girl for a date; without batting as much as an eyelid, she agrees to go with him. He asks her for her phone number which she hands to him on a note. He promptly places the note in his jocks!! :eek: Walks away nonchalantly. Sexual politics is a minefield!!
Deleted User wrote: » I will admittedly acknowledge I don't understand why posters here get so offended by the idea that a woman is responsible for her clothing/physical appearance... Can't even discuss it for a moment without extreme examples thrown out as objections. Not once did I say that staring at a woman's breasts was acceptable. I'm not seeking excuse other men's behavior either. It just seems foolish to me that more consideration about your own appearance is not taken into account. This is not about most men. Yes, We are attracted to the female body. Biological imperatives, Social conditioning, advertising, movies, etc have all encouraged us to appreciate women based on their physical appearance. Most men are polite enough not to stare at a woman's body parts. But the issue here is not about most men. It is once again about the minority for whom politeness is not important. They don't care about making the woman uncomfortable. This could be a cultural or religious thing (e.g. coming from a Muslim country or a very traditional society) or simply that they're assholes. I don't know, but your clothing choices will affect them. Women should have the right to wear whatever they wish. I get that. I have zero problems with any of that. Just as men should have also the ability to wear whatever they wish. But the world is not a perfect place, and there are risks in how we appear to others. Why is it so terrible to acknowledge those risks as being real... and the factors that cause the problems?
More than 60 per cent of the respondents — including females — suggested that scantily clad women were most at risk. But the study concluded that the majority of the victims of harassment were modestly dressed women wearing the hijab. Contrary to expectations, the male perpetrators made little distinction between women wearing a veil and those who were not. “We found that a veil does not protect women as we thought,” says Abu Al Komsan. “More than 75 per cent of women in Egypt are veiled but are still harassed. And 9 per cent wear the niqab — the complete face cover — so they are fully covered.” While both men and women surveyed said that short skirts and tight clothes triggered harassment, Nora Khalid, 31, told Weekend Review: “All my female colleagues advised me to wear the hijab to spare myself any advances from passers-by, just to find that women in the hijab were the most frequent targets of unwanted comments and touching on the street.”
B0jangles wrote: » You've just made another argument for why women should wear burqas.
Deleted User wrote: » Actually, you're the one suggesting it. I didn't mention burqas at all.
B0jangles wrote: » You are arguing that men are on some level, biologically driven to stare at women. That women can prevent this by dressing in way which conceals their bodies.
The burqa is the logical conclusion of that line of reasoning.
professore wrote: » https://m.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/i-was-sexually-harassed-says-rt-weather-presenter-joanna-donnelly-36249564.html This kind of thing is what pisses people off. I'm not referring to the anonymous letter, I'm referring to the "sexual harrassment" of some guy asking her out a few times and she saying no to him. Nothing more. Who has this not happened to, male or female, someone you don't fancy chasing you? Calls into question the credibility of her whole narrative. Then a mention of her book at the end. Makes a mockery of genuine cases.
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