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Child Item

The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

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Joe Duffy.

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Spotted this -
http://www.thejournal.ie/manchester-longwave-radio-3645057-Oct2017/
Regards

I'm not sure if the constant drum banging about "elderly" people is a good idea

burnsey1987

RTE Radios 1, 2 & Lyric are available on Freesat. If only RTE 1 could also be included on Freeview. This would be a workable solution if there was no other option than to shut down LW, considering that just about every household in the UK these days has a Freeview TV...

[Deleted User]

In fairness it’s not right to expect people to have the tv on to listen to the radio. It’s far easier to carry a radio around from room to room and listen to radio in the car. Though few have LW in the car these days and probably another reason RTÉ went with LW because it would reduce the capability for people to listen.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness it’s not right to expect people to have the tv on to listen to the radio. It’s far easier to carry a radio around from room to room and listen to radio in the car. Though few have LW in the car these days and probably another reason RTÉ went with LW because it would reduce the capability for people to listen.

I agree with you on that one, but being realistic, I think (and I hope that I will be proved wrong) that at this stage we'd be very much looking at a compromise rather than a full solution. Putting RTE R1 on Freeview seems to me like a practical option, if not the most ideal arrangement.

As for listening on the move, there is a very real possibility that R5 Live could change its format and go digital only. If things were to play out that way, just consider how many people such as drivers, tradesmen, reps and so on who could be cut off?

Johnboy1951

burnsey1987 wrote: »

RTE Radios 1, 2 & Lyric are available on Freesat. If only RTE 1 could also be included on Freeview. This would be a workable solution if there was no other option than to shut down LW, considering that just about every household in the UK these days has a Freeview TV...

Are they not also available as internet stations?
http://www.ieradio.org/
What is this fixation about LW when a much better service is available?

I can of course also receive the radio channels from the Astra satellite (as well as Saorview in Ireland).

That Manchester campaign looks like nonsense to me.

Gerry Wicklow

If they can afford to mount a campaign and send a delegation, they should be able to afford newer reception technology.

Digifriendly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

burnsey1987 wrote: »

RTE Radios 1, 2 & Lyric are available on Freesat. If only RTE 1 could also be included on Freeview. This would be a workable solution if there was no other option than to shut down LW, considering that just about every household in the UK these days has a Freeview TV...

Are they not also available as internet stations?
http://www.ieradio.org/
What is this fixation about LW when a much better service is available?

I can of course also receive the radio channels from the Astra satellite (as well as Saorview in Ireland).

That Manchester campaign looks like nonsense to me.

I think this is a bit harsh. Many elderly are not au fait with the internet and are used to easy access via LW on their portable and car radios.

Johnboy1951

Digifriendly wrote: »

I think this is a bit harsh. Many elderly are not au fait with the internet and are used to easy access via LW on their portable and car radios.

The same applies to many not so elderly!

If they can tune a LW radio they can equally well tune a radio station on an alternate means of receiving the channel.

This is the same 'elderly' generation who invented all this gear!

How many of that ~1,000 signatories will not have internet or Astra reception? Very few I suspect!

Digifriendly

Internet can be unreliable and not everyone has satellite.

Johnboy1951

Digifriendly wrote: »

Internet can be unreliable and not everyone has satellite.

The reliability of the Manchester (or other area) internet is hardly the concern of RTÉ!

The Cush

The problem I see with RTÉ using these small-scale DAB muxes in certain urban areas in GB will be the lack of reception outside their limited coverage areas for those driving or living outside these areas. Ofcom's initial plan is for 192 of these muxes across the country. Can/will RTÉ Radio 1 be available across all these muxes, unlikely I'd say due to cost alone.

The only realistic LW mobile/portable/fixed replacement option would be carriage on one of the national commercial DAB muxes for near nationwide coverage, lack of capacity is the problem there.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

The problem I see with RTÉ using these small-scale DAB muxes in certain urban areas in GB will be the lack of reception outside their limited coverage areas for those driving or living outside these areas. Ofcom's initial plan is for 192 of these muxes across the country. Can/will RTÉ Radio 1 be available across all these muxes, unlikely I'd say due to cost alone.

The only realistic LW mobile/portable/fixed replacement option would be carriage on one of the national commercial DAB muxes for near nationwide coverage, lack of capacity is the problem there.

Is it (or should it be?) a priority for RTÉ to have their transmissions available while mobile (car etc) in the UK?

[Deleted User]

burnsey1987 wrote: »

As for listening on the move, there is a very real possibility that R5 Live could change its format and go digital only. If things were to play out that way, just consider how many people such as drivers, tradesmen, reps and so on who could be cut off?

This shouldn't happen, there's nothing wrong with analogue radio, it does the job fine and you don't need a new radio.

We all don't have apple car play or Android Auto in our cars and even if we did people have bandwidth limits and you'd most likely experience frequent breakup.

Seems to me as people in management get younger and younger all with their Spotify and tune in radio they see no value or point to what they see as an ancient technology. Yes I use Spotify and tune in radio but I also use normal radio and love the ability to have the freedom and ability not to have to use the internet to receive everything as the powers that be want, especially something like radio.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is it (or should it?) a priority for RTÉ to have their transmissions available while mobile (car etc) in the UK?

Not necessarily but I believe they should as best as possible strive to replicate LW coverage for fixed reception with a basic DAB radio for those who currently use the service. This was their intention as part of the consortium that bid for the second UK national commercial DAB licence but lost out to Sound Digital. That mux currently covers 73-75% of UK households.

elperello

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

If they can afford to mount a campaign and send a delegation, they should be able to afford newer reception technology.

They are standing up for themselves and fair play to them.
The ones on the delegation are probably the better off ones but there are a lot more who are not well off.

To get perspective on this you need to tune your radio back to the sixties or earlier when a lot of these people were effectively driven out of their country.
They were victims of the way Ireland was then and it ill behoves us to let them down again in their twilight years.

Anyone interested in these Irish people could do worse than read this book -
https://www.catherinedunneauthor.com/an-unconsidered-people/

SPDUB

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Are they not also available as internet stations?
http://www.ieradio.org/
What is this fixation about LW when a much better service is available?

The internet option has been unless for a fair number of people this week

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The reliability of the Manchester (or other area) internet is hardly the concern of RTÉ!

SPDUB wrote: »

The internet option has been unless for a fair number of people this week

So what?

How is that any concern of RTÉ's?

marno21

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So what?

How is that any concern of RTÉ's?

RTE are a public service broadcaster. They are there to serve the public, not the public that's economically viable. Compare TV3's analogue coverage and RTE/TG4's analogue coverage to see an example of this, or indeed now the Saorsat service.

Johnboy1951

marno21 wrote: »

RTE are a public service broadcaster. They are there to serve the public, not the public that's economically viable. Compare TV3's analogue coverage and RTE/TG4's analogue coverage to see an example of this, or indeed now the Saorsat service.

What point are you making in relation to RTÉ Radio 1 LW?

marno21

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What point are you making in relation to RTÉ Radio 1 LW?

Kinsale, Youghal, Rosscarbery, Clonakilty, Bantry and parts of Cork harbour are examples of areas this week where there was no mobile phone reception, no electricity and the radio transmitters were out.

252 LW was their only way of receiving information during the storm. It's food for thought.

Johnboy1951

marno21 wrote: »

Kinsale, Youghal, Rosscarbery, Clonakilty, Bantry and parts of Cork harbour are examples of areas this week where there was no mobile phone reception, no electricity and the radio transmitters were out.

252 LW was their only way of receiving information during the storm. It's food for thought.

Maybe I am wrong, but I seriously doubt there were many people in those areas with the capability of receiving a LW broadcast.

Is there any survey or poll to indicate what percentage of the population would have an active ability to receive LW broadcasts?

In truth I know no one who currently has LW capability on a battery powered receiver.

[Deleted User]

marno21 wrote: »

Kinsale, Youghal, Rosscarbery, Clonakilty, Bantry and parts of Cork harbour are examples of areas this week where there was no mobile phone reception, no electricity and the radio transmitters were out.

252 LW was their only way of receiving information during the storm. It's food for thought.

Absolutely and brings me back to the point I keep beating into people about having all our eggs in one basket , all broadcasters want all their media transmitted via internet eventually and no transmitters which in my opinion is a huge mistake and will become apparent when there is some major cyber attack or world event that causes large parts of the internet to go down for extended periods.

Not to mention everything else we depend on the internet for these days which is a lot.

Fuzzy Clam

marno21 wrote: »

Kinsale, Youghal, Rosscarbery, Clonakilty, Bantry and parts of Cork harbour are examples of areas this week where there was no mobile phone reception, no electricity and the radio transmitters were out.

252 LW was their only way of receiving information during the storm. It's food for thought.

Were there no FM transmissions this week?

marno21

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Were there no FM transmissions this week?

Kinsale, Bantry and parts of Cork harbour had their FM relays knocked out by the storm. Rosscarbery, Clonakilty and parts of Youghal have to rely on the Internet for coverage at the best of times, and had no TV services as the relay was out (and so was cosited phone relays/backhaul services).

Gerry Wicklow

So much for using Saorsat as a backup feed

marno21

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

So much for using Saorsat as a backup feed

Saorsat is no use if the transmitter itself has no power. Ferrypoint TV transmitter near Youghal is still out today.

I would've thought power feeds to transmission sites would be prioritised, especially with a second Storm impacting today.

Joe Duffy.

marno21 wrote: »

Kinsale, Youghal, Rosscarbery, Clonakilty, Bantry and parts of Cork harbour are examples of areas this week where there was no mobile phone reception, no electricity and the radio transmitters were out.

252 LW was their only way of receiving information during the storm. It's food for thought.

That's a good point but the campaign to save lw 252 seems to be fixated on "elderly" people in England

dxhound2005

Since MW and LW are not going to be the future people should considers putting up an external antenna for FM. In the old days an external antenna was needed for good MW reception, and people had no problem either putting a TV antenna on their chimneys when TV came in.

An external FM antenna will enable reception of signals from other transmitters if the usual one is off air. On this forum someone on a hill in Co Limerick was able to get reception of RTE Radio from Clermont Cairn in Co Louth. I was in Carrickfergus today and all the Clermont Cairn signals were coming in loud and clear on the car radio. I am not familiar with reception in the South West but I would be surprised if the FM band was completely dead at any location.

External FM antennas are usually the domain of what used to be called hi-fi buffs, who wanted the strongest possible signal to enjoy the benefits of stereo FM music. But there is no reason why people couldn't install a simple antenna on their chimney or gable and bring in dozens of stations. And where 252 reception is marginal in the South West which has also been reported on this forum an external antenna would be needed anyway.

marno21

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Since MW and LW are not going to be the future people should considers putting up an external antenna for FM. In the old days an external antenna was needed for good MW reception, and people had no problem either putting a TV antenna on their chimneys when TV came in.

An external FM antenna will enable reception of signals from other transmitters if the usual one is off air. On this forum someone on a hill in Co Limerick was able to get reception of RTE Radio from Clermont Cairn in Co Louth. I was in Carrickfergus today and all the Clermont Cairn signals were coming in loud and clear on the car radio. I am not familiar with reception in the South West but I would be surprised if the FM band was completely dead at any location.

External FM antennas are usually the domain of what used to be called hi-fi buffs, who wanted the strongest possible signal to enjoy the benefits of stereo FM music. But there is no reason why people couldn't install a simple antenna on their chimney or gable and bring in dozens of stations. And where 252 reception is marginal in the South West which has also been reported on this forum an external antenna would be needed anyway.

An external antenna is no use unless you have a high end that has an external connecter. Most of which are powered by mains electricity, and have long wave to begin with.

252 reception is marginal in the south west at night when Chaine 3 is much more powerful. Daytime reception would not be an issue.

[Deleted User]

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

That's a good point but the campaign to save lw 252 seems to be fixated on "elderly" people in England

And what's wrong with that ?