whiskeyman wrote: » Always found this interesting... A man and his son are driving in a car one day, when they get into a fatal accident. The man is killed instantly. The boy is knocked unconscious, but he is still alive. He is rushed to hospital, and will need immediate surgery. The doctor enters the emergency room, looks at the boy, and says... "I can't operate on this boy, he is my son." So, the question is, how is this possible? The answer is simple: the doctor is the boy's mother. This riddle has been told for a long time, to illustrate how common gender stereotypes are in our society. What's fun, is to tell this to closet feminists like my mother or sister, and watch them fail to get past the stereotype of thinking "doctor" implies "man".
Permabear wrote: » This post had been deleted.
Omackeral wrote: » I've never seen a female worker collecting wheeliebins.
B0jangles wrote: » So how exceptionally good at trading would a woman have to be to overcome your 'lived experience' How exceptionally good at administration would a man have to be to do the same?What you are describing is not unconscious bias, it's just straight-forward bias based on your own preconceptions.
givyjoe wrote: » Eh not really, what do you reckon the percentages are of men working in trading roles and women in admin? Arguably an accurate observation trying to explain the statistical facts that more men working in trading and more women work in admin.
B0jangles wrote: » Ok, so say you were a qualified male nurse and went to a job interview. Your interviewer makes it clear that based on their experience, women are just fundamentally better suited to the role, so hard cheese, no job for you? Would you accept that their experience makes their judgement perfectly valid or would you seek legal advice? Does it suddenly stop being biased behaviour if they don't actually tell you this is what they think, they just don't hire you?
givyjoe wrote: » Right, would you please care to explain why there might be some anomalies in the balance of so many different roles? Do you honestly believe that the strengths and weaknesses of men and women are EXACTLY the same (on average across the genders)? Do you disagree with the idea that there may be some roles which men or women are inherently more suited to/better at? I believe there are many reasons why there may be imbalances in certain sectors (I don't claim to know them all) but I do believe that the example given earlier is possibly a valid reason contributing to such imbalances.
Deleted User wrote: » It's this thing that humans have done for millions of years, but now it means you're a horrible person.
B0jangles wrote: » Why do you want to switch to talking about broadstrokes statistical trends when we were originally talking about the preconceptions and biases that an individual has, that affect their judgement when it comes to interviewing job applicants? Permabear outlined his personal preconceptions about what roles best suit men, and what roles best suit women. I would not like to be up for interview with him if I did not match those preconceptions.
Shenshen wrote: » Would I be without bias? F*ck no! I fell for that "How can that be the doctor's son" riddle just as I suspect most people did the first time I heard it.
givyjoe wrote: » He did not say what roles best suit men, he offered an opinion on the performance of those who in his experience working with them.. had done best. At no point (unless Ive missed it), did he say he wouldn't hire a man or a woman for a role, simply because they were a man or a woman. But please, by all means ignore simple and obvious facts and look for ways to be outraged at 'discrimination'. Neither he, nor me are suggesting that men or women shouldn't be employed in certain roles. Simple question, do you believe that are no roles in any sector which women are 'better at' then men?
whiskeyman wrote: » Always found this interesting... A man and his son are driving in a car one day, when they get into a fatal accident. The man is killed instantly. The boy is knocked unconscious, but he is still alive. He is rushed to hospital, and will need immediate surgery. The doctor enters the emergency room, looks at the boy, and says... "I can't operate on this boy, he is my son." So, the question is, how is this possible?
B0jangles wrote: » This post had been deleted.
bodice ripper wrote: » Of course unconscious gender bias is a thing. For everybody. What sort of self congratulatory loon would you need to be to believe that you have escaped it? It's up there with "I don't see race". Fuuuck off.
Working class heroes wrote: » I've never seen a female putting rubbish in one...
_Dara_ wrote: » Really? I've worked in different fields where everyone mucks in with bin stuff. Retail, pubs, restaurants, laboratories, especially laboratories. And you were expected to, rightfully. No exceptions for women.
Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: » He's talking about the people who collect bins off the street. Almost no women employed in that field.
Shenshen wrote: » If that were the case, surely such a deep-seated evolutionary cause would not be very quick to change, wouldn't you think? We would not see a female-dominated area of work becoming male-dominated in the space of a few decades, surely? Or see male-dominated areas become almost entirely female-dominated in the course of one generation? I am beginning to suspect that the reason we have these imbalances are because men and women have a tendency to choose jobs that are considered by society to be more "male" or more "female". But as the fashion and with that the balances change, society will come to regard the roles that previously were thought to be "female" as "male", simply because people see more men doing the job than women.
givyjoe wrote: » Do you really see the the building trade, e.g. bricklaying and heavy construction work, switching from being male dominated to female?
Shenshen wrote: » Oh, I wasn't aware that we're talking exclusively about one trade, sorry. I was more thinking along the lines of veterinarians, for example. Software programming, as another. Apologies if I misunderstood.
Shenshen wrote: » I am beginning to suspect that the reason we have these imbalances are because men and women have a tendency to choose jobs that are considered by society to be more "male" or more "female". But as the fashion and with that the balances change, society will come to regard the roles that previously were thought to be "female" as "male", simply because people see more men doing the job than women.
Malayalam wrote: » None of the third wave feminists ever mention the historical reality of literally MILLIONS and millions of their male ancestors who were slaughtered in wars holding the line for our societies against barbarity (however manipulted those wars were). Or the many hundreds of thousands of men who laboured and shortened their lives down mines of various kinds whose resources were the foundation of the technologies that established our civilisations. Sometimes - as a female - I get really ashamed about the ones who are constantly shrilly squawking about triviliaties like ''unconscious gender bias''. Such women should get over themselves, we can do whatever we bloody well want as women, and have been able to do so for quite a while now. That train left town, find another soap box. The pay gap is a myth, inequity of access is a myth, the down-trodden modern woman is a fcuking myth. Anecdotes do not make empirical evidence. Do something useful, like campaign against child mariage or sex slavery or rampant inequality in countries where women are ACTUALLY under the cosh. Or maybe like Linda Sarsour they think the veil is a symbol of fricking personal independence? :rolleyes:
