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Government Capital Spending on Roads: 2016-2022

Leonard Hofstadter

According to this article, the Government is due to announce a new roads programme in the not too distant future.

As the Irish Examiner article mentions, one of the roads that's being pushed is the N22 Macroom bypass. While it's certainly not the worst main road from Cork, it is definitely very important, Macroom suffers from desperate congestion at times.

Anyone know what other projects could be considered by the Government, assuming they go for the 'shovel ready' approach like they did with the last stimulus package announced in 2012?

Obviously, I'd like to see the M20 done asap, but I know that's not going to happen for a variety of reasons any time soon.

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L1011

marno21 wrote: »

The same is being done with the Slane bypass, Ballybofey bypass

Both those are being redesigned due to failing to get planning permission - protestors and terrible safety of design respectively.

marno21

L1011 wrote: »

Both those are being redesigned due to failing to get planning permission - protestors and terrible safety of design respectively.

True that, but they are both going through all the motions - feasibility study, route selection etc.

roadmaster

is there many jobs that are actually shovel ready that have all the planning in place etc, So in the morning if the government said to TII heres so many million could they put projects to tender and start within 8 weeks?

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

is there many jobs that are actually shovel ready that have all the planning in place etc, So in the morning if the government said to TII heres so many million could they put projects to tender and start within 8 weeks?

Dunkettle Interchange, N59 Moycullen bypass, N56 Mountcharles-Inver anyway

The N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney is fairly close to shovel ready, and I believe the N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin scheme is close too. The N5 Westport-Turlogh has a bit to go first.

marno21

Article from the Irish Examiner about the vast amount of national road schemes that remain suspended:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/devastating-loss-of-family-on-our-roads-highlights-urgency-461014.html

annfield1978

marno21 wrote: »

Dunkettle Interchange, N59 Moycullen bypass, N56 Mountcharles-Inver anyway

The N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney is fairly close to shovel ready, and I believe the N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin scheme is close too. The N5 Westport-Turlogh has a bit to go first.

N4 Collooney is a year away form starting

sonnyblack

marno21 wrote: »

Because it has to be redone in accordance with new Department of Public Expenditure appraisal guidelines, which require new traffic data etc.

The same is being done with the Slane bypass, Ballybofey bypass, Letterkenny-Lifford, new N24 dual carriageway etc

Doesnt traffic data usually dictate what design of road is used? Surely there will be no change from a motorway design here. The road has got busier in the meantime. I still dont understand what was wrong with the original design and why it has to start from scratch again

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

Article from the Irish Examiner about the vast amount of national road schemes that remain suspended:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/devastating-loss-of-family-on-our-roads-highlights-urgency-461014.html

Good article from the Examiner. What's most interesting to me here is the TII communications director coming out strongly against claims that road projects are prioritised predominantly on politicians' desires - in spite of the endless accusations by some posters on this board.

KOR101

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Good article from the Examiner. What's most interesting to me here is the TII communications director coming out strongly against claims that road projects are prioritised predominantly on politicians' desires - in spite of the endless accusations by some posters on this board.

Well we'll soon know for sure, given that we have the top 20 TII list in order of priority.

marno21

TII (Michael Nolan) met the Public Accounts Committee recently, and a few progress updates below:

* TII would like to introduce facilities for carpoolers at several motorway junctions, particular M1 J14 with the N33.
* TII are interested in progressing the N25 Waterford-Glenmore scheme as soon as possible. There will then be continious dual carriageway from Kilmeaden to east of New Ross
* TII are planning a P&R at the north end of Metro North to "hoover traffic off the M1".
* TII are interested in progressing the N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton asap.
* TII are installing a grade seperated junction on the Piltown bypass to solve safety issues
* TII are required to upgrade the M7 Naas-Red Cow to motorway by 2030 - however due to cost issues that will not be feasible.
* TII have no active plans to develop an Outer Orbtial to the M50 - however in the short to medium term demand management projects will be implemented, which will ultimately lead to multipoint tolling
* M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass to be in full swing during Q4 2017
* Portlaoise Southern Distributor Road - CPO in place; detailed design to begin shortly
* N25 New Ross bypass on target to open by 31 January 2019

KOR101

https://beta.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/committee_of_public_accounts/2017-10-12/3/

Chris_5339762

* TII are interested in progressing the N25 Waterford-Glenmore scheme as soon as possible.

I've never understood this push, they've always had it too. Joining the Waterford and New Ross bypasses should not be a priority IMO. I don't believe safety would be a huge issue (S2 between two D2s) as the road is reasonable anyway.

N25 Carrigtohill to Midleton, Midleton to Youghal and Dungarvan outer bypasses would all be FAR more beneficial.

It would be utterly crazy if Waterford - Glenmore was built before Killeagh and Castlemartyr were bypassed.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I've never understood this push, they've always had it too. Joining the Waterford and New Ross bypasses should not be a priority IMO. I don't believe safety would be a huge issue (S2 between two D2s) as the road is reasonable anyway.

N25 Carrigtohill to Midleton, Midleton to Youghal and Dungarvan outer bypasses would all be FAR more beneficial.

It would be utterly crazy if Waterford - Glenmore was built before Killeagh and Castlemartyr were bypassed.

According to them it does well in cost:benefit terms.

Their priorities for the N25 for the next 6/7 years are the Waterford-Glenmore scheme and the Carrigtwohill-Midleton scheme. This will mean motorway standard on the N25 from Dunkettle to Midleton and Kilmeaden to New Ross (R733).

This will leave the N25 Midleton-Youghal (incl. bypasses of Castlemartyr and Killeagh) and the N25 Dungarvan Outer Bypass schemes suspended until after 2025.

[Deleted User]

* TII have no active plans to develop an Outer Orbtial to the M50 - however in the short to medium term demand management projects will be implemented, which will ultimately lead to multipoint tolling

Long overdue

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

According to them it does well in cost:benefit terms.

Their priorities for the N25 for the next 6/7 years are the Waterford-Glenmore scheme and the Carrigtwohill-Midleton scheme. This will mean motorway standard on the N25 from Dunkettle to Midleton and Kilmeaden to New Ross (R733).

This will leave the N25 Midleton-Youghal (incl. bypasses of Castlemartyr and Killeagh) and the N25 Dungarvan Outer Bypass schemes suspended until after 2025.

I'd actually love to see all that data. I really can't see how Waterford - Glenmore would score higher than Midleton - Youghal.

marno21

I would reckon part of Waterford-Glenmore will be done online as the realigned N25 is fairly wide.

This particular section as viewed from an overbridge near Glenmore is ridiculously wide. The hard shoulder is almost as wide as the westbound lane and there are already two lanes eastbound.

tonc76

marno21 wrote: »

I would reckon part of Waterford-Glenmore will be done online as the realigned N25 is fairly wide.

This particular section as viewed from an overbridge near Glenmore is ridiculously wide. The hard shoulder is almost as wide as the westbound lane and there are already two lanes eastbound.

I could be mistaken but I think that section is on the New Ross side of the bypass.

marno21

tonc76 wrote: »

I could be mistaken but I think that section is on the New Ross side of the bypass.

**** me you're right. That'll be some standard of R/L road when the New Ross bypass opens.

JohnC.

Isn't the second lane actually a climbing lane which only runs for a bit, so isn't typical of the road in general?

BelfastVanMan

JohnC. wrote: »

Isn't the second lane actually a climbing lane which only runs for a bit, so isn't typical of the road in general?

No, the road is WS2 the whole way from near Luffany roundabout to New Ross itself.

Donegal Storm

Any mumblings as to when the new capital plan is to be announced? It was supposedly to happen this month so should hopefully be in the next couple of weeks but all seems very quiet

Aontachtoir

If Leo is going to share his new capital plan with us he might as well do so soon. It sounds like there's going to be a January election, and if FF or (heaven forbid) SF take power then we're going to be sitting around for a whole extra year while they put together their own brand new capital plans. Guaranteed funding for the M20 is probably back on the shelf now for at least a year, and who knows what will happen to the M28.

At times like this I envy the Chinese - the same single government makes an infrastructure plan, puts it into actions, and sees it through every time, no muss, no fuss.

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

If Leo is going to share his new capital plan with us he might as well do so soon. It sounds like there's going to be a January election, and if FF or (heaven forbid) SF take power then we're going to be sitting around for a whole extra year while they put together their own brand new capital plans. Guaranteed funding for the M20 is probably back on the shelf now for at least a year, and who knows what will happen to the M28.

At times like this I envy the Chinese - the same single government makes an infrastructure plan, puts it into actions, and sees it through every time, no muss, no fuss.

Leo stated November announcement for his Capital Plan.. week and a half to go.. (more important issues on the table?)

M28 decision due 21 December

MayoSalmon

Aontachtoir wrote: »

At times like this I envy the Chinese - the same single government makes an infrastructure plan, puts it into actions, and sees it through every time, no muss, no fuss.

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

Leo stated November announcement for his Capital Plan.. week and a half to go.. (more important issues on the table?)

M28 decision due 21 December

Much more important issues, it seems, as I haven't heard even a whisper about this capital plan. If the government falls, I doubt we'll ever get to see it - the whole energy of the government will be on getting re-elected.

Also, regarding the M28 decision, won't that most likely be pushed back into the New Year after the oral hearing was extended by nearly two weeks? If the hearing doesn't finish until early December, I find it hard to believe that ABP will be able to issue a decision within a fortnight. (Hopefully I'm wrong).

What a mess.

marno21

Michael Martin as Taoiseach could be an interesting one. His own city, and indeed constituency, has a large infrastructure deficit, but he seems more interested in siding with the standard objectors to the schemes.

What does he do? Progress infrastructure in the rest of the country (the Kenny policy) and leave Cork behind? Progress infrastructure in Cork that he has objected to himself?

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

Michael Martin as Taoiseach could be an interesting one. His own city, and indeed constituency, has a large infrastructure deficit, but he seems more interested in siding with the standard objectors to the schemes.

What does he do? Progress infrastructure in the rest of the country (the Kenny policy) and leave Cork behind? Progress infrastructure in Cork that he has objected to himself?

FF - I'm surprised at you guys - this is bound to play straight into the hands of your rivals - if I was living in Cork, I would now consider FG for ballot box as I'd feel let down by FF - and I'm from a FF background.

Aontachtoir

Early election avoided: check.
Diplomatic triumph to complete phase 1 of Brexit talks: check.
Releasing the updated capital plan: pending.

Anyone heard any movement on this front? The past few weeks have been hectic politically but there's only two weeks left before the country breaks for Christmas. I'm surprised the N5 upgrade was confirmed outside of the context of the updated capital plan. Maybe the release has been postponed?

markodaly

Probably waiting for a quiet week to announce it, or maybe they are still working on it. I hope its ambitious anyway.

[Deleted User]

lucernarian wrote: »

That's not fair, as anyone looking at the progress of the N5 would tell you...

Ardee borders on the historical Pale and it can't even get the N52 "bypass" sorted on one side, a very minor scheme compared to the big picture.

Due to start sometime next year according to Shane Ross.

http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2017/minister-ross-welcomes-over-%E2%82%AC136m-funding-multiple-road-safety-schemes-and-road