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VW emissions software update - disaster

Golfgorfield

So i own a 2010 Golf GTD with DSG.
I received the letter to have the car made legal again for arguments sake amd decided to let my vw dealer do ot when in for service.
Its a 60,000 mile very well maintained with all main dealer stamps.
The car pulls like a train through the gears and when in sport mode it holds the revs in the high torque band brilliantly and is a joy to drive.

Well it was.......

After the software upgrade ive driven it over the weekend and it is certainly not the car it was, it feels much slower and its much more revvy and much less torquey.... in sport mode it doesnt hold the revs like it did and the dsg has become a bit dopey, theres also a slight vibration/wobble under acceleration at low speed which has appeared.

Has anyone any experience of this situation?
Im raging i got it done at all now.
I have phoned VW who stated they guarantee the car should feel exactly the same... just like they guaranteed all their engines were within emissions laws........

Has anyone noticed any differences after they had theirs done?

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jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Yeah, I totally agree, the inconvenience of an unexpected breakdown can be huge and is never good, at the same those cars were prone to those failures before the update anyway though, so really the owners are potentially in for that inconvenience anyway, at least with the update they can get it fixed for free.

Let's just not go saying "the expense was huge" in a tone as if to suggest VW made the owner pay.

Volkswagon claimed that the dpf filter being blocked had nothing to do with the update.

therefore they said that due to the failure of the dpf i was not entitled to any refund on the original egr valve as it was damaged through the build-up of pressure of exhaust gas due to dpf fauliur and not due to any failure of the egr valve or the fitting of said part. Same for the turbo.

first egr was 480.70 euro+ 400 labour, second egr was also 480.70 euro, turbo was 320 euro, dpf was 679.89 labour was discounted to €200 as a ''goodwill gesture''.

so both jobs which happened less than a month apart cost 2561.29 euro, i knew nothing at the time about the egr valve being a known fault in vag cars, and had no idea some people had been been offered goodwill replacments, therefore i never asked about it, and it was certainly never offered.

after finding this thread, I returned to the dealer, and the reception i got was frosty to put it mildly. I was also told that i drove the car too hard after the first egr was put in and that driver error was the contributing factor to my isues.

i wont name the dealer as its against charter and also due to the fact that I have since taken on a solicitor as i believe volkswagon have screwed me quite badly.

so excuse me if i stand by my statment the expense was huge.

Toyotafanboi

Was the first EGR replacement before or after the update? Was it replaced by a dealer or an independent?

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Was the first EGR replacement before or after the update? Was it replaced by a dealer or an independent?

car went in for egr replacment, update was put on at same time only found out after. All main dealer

Toyotafanboi

Then the EGR failed again again and they replaced it again, how long was that after the first EGR replacement?

Did they do the DPF at the same time as the second EGR?

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Then the EGR failed again again and they replaced it again, how long was that after the first EGR replacement?

Did they do the DPF at the same time as the second EGR?

second egr and dpf and turbo all together 3 weeks after first was done.

grogi

jcd5971 wrote: »

second egr and dpf and turbo all together 3 weeks after first was done.

Turbo failure has absolutely nothing to do with the update. I cannot think about any logical connection.

I guess one of the injectors failed, created tons of soot blocking the EGR and DPF, diesel dissolved the oil killing the turbocharger...

Or the turbocharger started leaking oil to the exhaust, blocked the DPF and increased pressure killed EGR.

Toyotafanboi

jcd5971 wrote: »

second egr and dpf and turbo all together 3 weeks after first was done.

And they didn't offer you warranty cover on the EGR fitted 3 weeks previous? Madness.

That said it sounds like your car had health issues before the update.

jcd5971

grogi wrote: »

Turbo failure has absolutely nothing to do with the update. I cannot think about any logical connection.

I guess one of the injectors failed, created tons of soot blocking the EGR and DPF, diesel dissolved the oil killing the turbocharger...

Or the turbocharger started leaking oil to the exhaust, blocked the DPF and increased pressure killed EGR.

well I was refered by my local mechanic to a polish guy who has a garage that specialises in refurbishing turbos and egr jobs for a few different main dealers, he was saying in his opinion what most likely happened was that due to the first egr being blocked by soot in the first place the dpf would have been in need of either replacment or at least regeneration depending on how bad it was. he suspects they just didn`t look at it at all.

He then said most likely after applying the update and the new egr that any faults on the ecu would be reset, and by doing this the ecu would assume that the dpf had either been replaced or regenerated.

So apparently the ecu will limit (something or other I cant rememebr im not a car guy) when it knows the dpf is full above a certain level.

by reseting this without actually working on the dpf, the ecu removed the limits putting more pressure and blocking( an admittidely already under pressure dpf). with the dpf now blocked the exhaust gas had nowhere to go and the pressure had to go somewhere, that somewhere being blowing out the turbo and new dpf.

He informed me he had seen this happen to several cars from various dealers, and was not surprised. He also said that the dealer informing me to drive the car for a week before coming back in with the warning light on the dash was madness.

he also said he checked the log and that all faults had been cleared on the dates the car was in the main dealer.

he said there was no way they could have missed this, and in his opinion that is incompetence on the mechanics fault who worked on the car.

to be fair this could all be gobbledegook i am no expert on engines.
all i know is my solicitor said it will take some time to get to court but she expects it to get settled before this in my favour( though i suppose they would say this anyway)

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

And they didn't offer you warranty cover on the EGR fitted 3 weeks previous? Madness.

That said it sounds like your car had health issues before the update.

Know they refused when asked as they said the failure of the egr was due to the dpf failure and no fault of the installation of the new egr or the fitting of the egr.

Toyotafanboi

To be fair the easiest thing for one mechanic to do is tell a layman that another mechanic is wrong, for reasons they don't understand.

It does sound like your car had underlying issues though and unfortunately VW threw an update into the mix. Hundreds of cars a day get the update with no knock on issues.

What mileage is on the car?

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

To be fair the easiest thing for one mechanic to do is tell a layman that another mechanic is wrong, for reasons they don't understand.

It does sound like your car had underlying issues though and unfortunately VW threw an update into the mix. Hundreds of cars a day get the update with no knock on issues.

What mileage is on the car?

Unfortunatley (considering how much was spent on the thing) it was written off in a crash 2 months back but im nearly sure it was 140 km

Toyotafanboi

It's a messy one!

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's a messy one!

you can say that again. Whole affair left a bad taste.

KCross

jcd5971 wrote: »

... by reseting this without actually working on the dpf...

^^ this is the crux of the issue

VW have an emissions issue, they are applying a software fix which works the EGR harder and if you have a car that is already sick due to the EGR not being used enough or an older car not clearing the DPF due to too many short journeys (hence no regeneration) then the software fix is going to blow "stuff".

The issue is they are applying the fix without checking the EGR and DPF and hoping everything is going to be OK. That works for most cars but leaves some people with big repair bills. It's not the owners fault.

If I were you and they applied the software update without my express permission, which appears to be what you said, I'd press hard via my solicitor. I bet they will pay up. I've got money back from VAG Dublin before(€1800, for a timing chain) just by sending an email!

Toyotafanboi

KCross wrote: »

The issue is they are applying the fix without checking the EGR and DPF and hoping everything is going to be OK.

In fairness, all cars are checked before the update is done, they are checked to make sure there are no faults stored, that the DPF soot content is acceptable and that the EGR and DPF are present and operational. No check is foolproof however but efforts are made to avoid situations like this.

The last thing dealers need is post update cars returning with issues like these.

KCross

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

In fairness, all cars are checked before the update is done, they are checked to make sure there are no faults stored, that the DPF soot content is acceptable and that the EGR and DPF are present and operational. No check is foolproof however but efforts are made to avoid situations like this.

The last thing dealers need is post update cars returning with issues like these.

That doesn't appear to be the case here though, is it?

And all the others on here who have had similar issues and got negative responses from their dealers and VW! So, I don't agree with your point as a given at all.

The point is, if you change how the car operates (i.e. the software update) and that causes downstream issues in the same sub-system (emissions control) then VW have to take responsibility for those downstream issues. I understand the DPF and/or EGR might have already been partially failing but there would probably have been thousands more miles without issue if the update was not done as those emissions controls were effectively being bypassed pre-update.

jelutong

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

In fairness, all cars are checked before the update is done, they are checked to make sure there are no faults stored, that the DPF soot content is acceptable and that the EGR and DPF are present and operational. No check is foolproof however but efforts are made to avoid situations like this.

The last thing dealers need is post update cars returning with issues like these.

Do you work for a Volkswagen dealer ? If so I think you should be up front about it.

Toyotafanboi

That doesn't appear to be the case here though, is it?

No, but they do take reasonable precautions against this. It's easy to make a good judgement call based on a 5-10 minute inspection of a vehicle but it's impossible to get it right 100% of the time I suppose.

And all the others on here who have had similar issues and got negative responses from their dealers and VW! So, I don't agree with your point as a given at all.

Have we any other examples of this? The only people who seem to get no satisfaction are people who's butt dyno tells them their 105bhp diesel is slower than it used to be. Anyone who seems to have tangiable issues with components get rectification work.

The point is, if you change how the car operates (i.e. the software update) and that causes downstream issues in the same sub-system (emissions control) then VW have to take responsibility for those downstream issues. I understand the DPF and/or EGR might have already been partially failing but there would probably have been thousands more miles without issue if the update was not done as those emissions controls were effectively being bypassed pre-update.

They have publically said that they will. That's why I don't understand why the previous poster didn't get his issues fixed for free, but we only know one side of the story and by that I'm not necessarily saying the poster is wrong.

Toyotafanboi

jelutong wrote: »

Do you work for a Volkswagen dealer ? If so I think you should be up front about it.

No but I do work in the motor industry.

gctest50

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

No but I do work in the motor industry.

Why no buy back here ?

When the company offered to take the car back, Sarchiapone said she agreed and received $2,000 cash plus forgiveness for the $18,000 she owed on the car.

Seth Brundle

gctest50 wrote: »

Why no buy back here ?

What laws did they break here?

dubrov

kbannon wrote: »

What laws did they break here?

False advertising
Fraud
Putting public health at risk

Seth Brundle

dubrov wrote: »

False advertising
Fraud
Putting public health at risk

Erm, laws not morals!
Try again!

dubrov

So are you suggesting there are no laws that protect consumers from sellers falsifying specifications?

Seth Brundle

dubrov wrote: »

So are you suggesting there are no laws that protect consumers from sellers falsifying specifications?

Im not suggesting anything. I'm asking what laws have been broken.
In America they broke laws and were forced to take action to rectify the resulting problems. What laws have they broken here that would warrant any remedial action apart from what crap theyre doing.

joeysoap

VW are German. Germany is the most powerful member of the EU. There won't be any buy backs. Simples.

la ultima guagua

Had JCD been running a Korean car no update would have been needed ( it seems Koreans dont lie about emissions) and probably all the other work would have been covered by warranty.

Is the what Made in Germany has come to ?

jcd5971

la ultima guagua wrote: »

Had JCD been running a Korean car no update would have been needed ( it seems Koreans dont lie about emissions) and probably all the other work would have been covered by warranty.

Is the what Made in Germany has come to ?

I hope not i went out and bought a bmw to replace my crappy passat

I get where toyotafanboi is coming from, but I dont think they have taken into account at all the knock on effects of this update on the cars.
No-one is claiming its bricking perfect new shiny engines. It is putting alot of pressure on (mostly) older parts and for lots of people its turning out to be enough pressure to cause failure in their vehicles.

I get the point that you made about it being easy for one mechanic to blame another, but this guy showed me 6 turbos taken apart in his shop that he said where from the same kind of issues i had and they were only from past 2 weeks, he said he is geting at least 8 or 9 a month from volkswagon thats alot (at least to me it seems).

In my case the update was applied without my permisson, so thats a big plus in my dispute with them apparently.

grogi

jcd5971 wrote: »

(...) he said he is geting at least 8 or 9 a month from volkswagon thats alot (at least to me it seems).

How many VW drive on our roads without owners not having a clue how to treat the turbocharger? How many trusted turbo mechanics there are?

jcd5971

grogi wrote:

How many VW drive on our roads without owners not having a clue how to treat the turbocharger? How many trusted turbo mechanics there are?

I'd have no clue as to the answer to either of those questions.