Classroom corporal punishment

Its an outdated ill-conceived method of disciplining children

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I saw children being beaten with sticks and leathers for not having homework done or knowing tables, Irish, poetry etc. Some of them would have diagnoses of Asperger's, ADHD, learning disability etc. these days.

Agree, thinking of the kids the "master" used to beat, were surely passed that and more developed as a nation?

The_Valeyard

Lia_lia wrote: »

A teacher threw a heavy book at a girl in my class once. That was about 2004. Nothing said about it. That teacher was an awful c*nt.

A certain Kerry footballer threw a duster at a student in my brother's school. That was funny.

Anyway, don't agree with it. The stories I hear from my Mom's time in school are mad. She went to the same school as me so we would have had some of the same teachers.

Actually my history teacher used to throw dusters. Never actually hit you. More a way to get attention. Great teacher though, sound chap.

blackcard

We got slashed for not knowing the third person past pluperfect of an irregular verb. One student refused to hold out his hand one day saying his father said he didn't have to. Us macho idiots continued to put out our hands for canes and leathers. Flying dusters, hair and ear pulling and rulers on the backs of knuckles were other things to look forward to.

snowflaker wrote: »

Agree, thinking of the kids the "master" used to beat, were surely passed that and more developed as a nation?

Thankfully, I think we are. What is heartening is that, in the poll above, 48% of people have voted that they never experienced corporal punishment but that it should never be allowed.

Ulysses Gaze

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Do you want to ban divorce and the homosexuals as well?

No just boards posters that jump to far-out conclusions based on a one line post.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes, these days, when we now understand more about these conditions than we did 30 years ago when I was called a retard in school for being dyslexic. You simply can't moralise about the past like that, you can only learn from it. Personally, I think we've gone so far that we're now actually over-compensating for children's disruptive behaviour in schools and we have child psychologists using terms like "emotional behavioural disorder" for children who just have no respect for anyone and helicopter parents who enable their children's disruptive behaviour and expect that the schools should have to do the same.

I've had teachers complain that they and other students in the schools have been physically assaulted and verbally abused in class and in the playground, and if it were any other occupation, that kind of behaviour simply wouldn't be tolerated. Teachers nowadays have to put up with an inordinate amount of shìte, it's not nearly so simple as you're making out at all.

Indeed. But hitting a child in order to modify their behaviour in a classroom is still wrong.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think my great grand father used make some kind of leather strap for the schools!

One eyed Jack

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. But hitting a child in order to modify their behaviour in a classroom is still wrong.

Honestly, it depends. I think the argument for or against any type of disciplinary method is more nuanced than just 'wrong' or 'right' that can be applied to all situations at all times. As I said earlier - if implemented properly, it can be effective, but when implemented in a haphazard fashion, it has the opposite effect. The issue is in the implementation, not in the method itself.

freshpopcorn

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

No just boards posters that jump to far-out conclusions based on a one line post.

In my experience people with similar views regarding corporal punishment, generally have similar views regarding homosexuality/divorce. They want to take Ireland back to the good old days.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Honestly, it depends. I think the argument for or against any type of disciplinary method is more nuanced than just 'wrong' or 'right' that can be applied to all situations at all times. As I said earlier - if implemented properly, it can be effective, but when implemented in a haphazard fashion, it has the opposite effect. The issue is in the implementation, not in the method itself.

When is it ok to hit children?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Honestly, it depends. I think the argument for or against any type of disciplinary method is more nuanced than just 'wrong' or 'right' that can be applied to all situations at all times. As I said earlier - if implemented properly, it can be effective, but when implemented in a haphazard fashion, it has the opposite effect. The issue is in the implementation, not in the method itself.

Who would be the arbiter of corporal punishment "implemented properly"?

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

No just boards posters that jump to far-out conclusions based on a one line post.

Fair enough, but how do you stop corporal punishment from becoming abuse? Where do you draw the lines?

Also, how do you avoid teaching kids that the best way to resolve conflict is with violence?

One eyed Jack

snowflaker wrote: »

When is it ok to hit children?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who would be the arbiter of corporal punishment "implemented properly"?

As I said - it would depend entirely upon the circumstances of each case. I'm not suggesting we go to extremes like walloping children out of their chairs, etc, often all that was necessary when my mother was teaching was a smack across the back of the head to keep the child and the rest of the class in line and paying attention.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As I said - it would depend entirely upon the circumstances of each case. I'm not suggesting we go to extremes like walloping children out of their chairs, etc, often all that was necessary when my mother was teaching was a smack across the back of the head to keep the child and the rest of the class in line and paying attention.

To be honest, I wouldn't even class that as corporal punishment and a tap on the shoulder would probably have the same effect.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As I said - it would depend entirely upon the circumstances of each case. I'm not suggesting we go to extremes like walloping children out of their chairs, etc, often all that was necessary when my mother was teaching was a smack across the back of the head to keep the child and the rest of the class in line and paying attention.

Was your mother happy for you to be hit on the back of your head by teachers? Are you happy for your child to be hit on the back of their head by teachers? How hard should they be hit by the teachers? How is the force of the hitting to be assessed and monitored?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As I said - it would depend entirely upon the circumstances of each case. I'm not suggesting we go to extremes like walloping children out of their chairs, etc, often all that was necessary when my mother was teaching was a smack across the back of the head to keep the child and the rest of the class in line and paying attention.

What does a smack across the head achieve???

A child that wouldn't be used to physical punishment - how do you think they'd react to this?

When is it ok to smack a child across the back of the head?

fergiesfolly

Given three or four slaps of a drumstick( choice of that or leather strap. It's a mistake I wouldn't make again) by a teacher in fourth class as a punishment for bad behaviour.
Same teacher never punished anyone for being late, not having homework or making a mistake in class. He only used "the cane" when other methods weren't working and I can count on one hand where it was used. Everyone knew the score and the consequences for bad behaviour.
His punishments were administered cooly, calmly and without malice.
He was as a great teacher, patient, hardworking and who was well thought of by all the class and I have the height of respect for him.
I have known others who were either clearly unhinged or on a power trip who shouldn't have been let within an asses roar of of a classroom full of children.
I have no problem with a controlled use of corporal punishment, where parent, child and school are involved in the process.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

To be honest, I wouldn't even class that as corporal punishment and a tap on the shoulder would probably have the same effect.

I would, I'm trying to think how my 7 year old nephew would react to a teacher smacking him across the back of his head.

Firstly, its from behind so unexpected, and its bound to unnerve the child.

if an adult ever hits my kid beforee he's big enough to stand up for himself i'd put them on the ground and stamp on their thumbs

i was in one of the wifes friends house the othe week and little Tigger decided to do something dangerous
i was about to grab him when the man of the house grabbed him first
he was just minding the kid but my reptile brain flashed (someone is handaling your son in a rough manner)
it was a funny feeling

tiger-dad.jpg.650x0_q70_crop-smart.jpg

One eyed Jack

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Was your mother happy for you to be hit on the back of your head by teachers? Are you happy for your child to be hit on the back of their head by teachers? How hard should they be hit by the teachers? How is the force of the hitting to be assessed and monitored?

1. She was (and if they didn't, she would!).

2. Yes, they're acting in loco parentis, so if they didn't, I would.

3. I'll leave that to their judgement. It's never come up though as my child is well behaved in class and by all reports is 'a joy to teach'.

4. How many more times? It would depend entirely upon the circumstances in each case. The teacher isn't above disciplinary measures being implemented either.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Actually my history teacher used to throw dusters. Never actually hit you. More a way to get attention. Great teacher though, sound chap.

couldnt trow for sh1te tho

snowflaker wrote: »

I would, I'm trying to think how my 7 year old nephew would react to a teacher smacking him across the back of his head.

Firstly, its from behind so unexpected, and its bound to unnerve the child.

In fairness, i'm assuming a nudge to get the child's attention rather than a "clip round the ear" kinda thing. As I said - a tap on the shoudler will do the same.

Tigger wrote: »

if an adult ever hits my kid beforee he's big enough to stand up for himself i'd put them on the ground and stamp on their thumbs

Which opens another question for the Pro-camp: what, exactly, is the procedure if the student defends themselves and hits back at the teacher? or are you expecting them to sit there and and just accept the attack?

The_Valeyard

Tigger wrote: »

couldnt trow for sh1te tho

Or could he......

marienbad

I went to school in the 50's and 60's , they heydays of corporal punishment , I have seen or heard of fists, boots, sticks of all kinds, rulers ,leather straps dusters, the occasional chair being used .

One teacher's loss of temper was so uncontrolled false teeth went flying on a regular basis . The same teacher while beating the crap out of you would intone - 'its not you I blame at all but the people that's rearing you '' and you really wanted to ask 'then why are you beating crap out me so '.

Terrible times , too many people took up the profession that had no talent or inclination for it and took out their frustration on the pupils .

And even the best of them were reduced to the use of violence . Utterly disillusioning - that and the favouritism . I couldn't wait to get out .

One eyed Jack wrote: »

4. How many more times? It would depend entirely upon the circumstances in each case. The teacher isn't above disciplinary measures being implemented either.

That's kinda side-stepping the question. How far is too far? And what's the proceure if the student fights back?

To be honest - if a teacher is incapable of teaching and commanding respect WITHOUT resorting to corporal, I'd rather he/she was gently pushed towards a different career in favour of someone who could.

I still haven’t got a scenario from Pro-CP as to when it would be acceptable- it seems that they want to hide from their choice by being vague and unclear

One eyed Jack wrote: »

1. She was (and if they didn't, she would!).

2. Yes, they're acting in loco parentis, so if they didn't, I would.

3. I'll leave that to their judgement. It's never come up though as my child is well behaved in class and by all reports is 'a joy to teach'.

4. How many more times? It would depend entirely upon the circumstances in each case. The teacher isn't above disciplinary measures being implemented either.

I don't think we can agree on this. It is wrong for a child to be hit by a teacher. Incidentally, it is illegal for any adult to hit a child.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Or could he......

i donno what age you are
i'm old nough that we got dusters pegged atr us to hit
normally it was the chalk tho the duster was for the morons
the meter skick wa a good one as well, that hurt
told tis story before but i met a teacher that used to hit me when i was 18 and grown

i always have dogs and the way i get my dogs is the pounf (not the shelters or the rescues) knows i'll take hard to home dogs and train them
this means i always have big dogs that came messed up and need a lok of disicpline

i never hit my dogs so why hould a parenbt ever hit their child or an educator hit their clients