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The Greatest Teams Ever Debate (Dublin - The Greatest Team Ever?)

Sonny678

Firstly Congratulations to the Dubs. Dublin are the team of the decade. One of the All time great teams. Their achievements will go down in the history books. They are a credit to their county and clubs. This is a golden era for Dublin football.

However there those seem to be allot of people trying to rewrite history and downplay Kerrys 75 to 86 achievements. In order to prove Dublin are the best. I think allot of supporters who started following the game in the last 10 or 15 years are pushing this idea that Dublin are the greatest. They probaly dont know the achievements of Down or past Cavan teams. And never heard of Downs Sean O Neill or Cavans Higgins.

However the facts do not back this up. By saying the facts is not downgrading Dublins wins. They have achieved greatness. But facts are facts.
1 Kerry team of 70s and 80s. Did three great things 1 Win All.Ireland in 1975 with one of the youngest teams ever to win Sam ? by beating one of the greatest teams ever..2 They won a 4 in a row between 78 to 81. 3 They won 3 in a row 84 85 86.

They also had some of the greatest players of all time playing in their chosen positions. This Dublin team have one player playing that could be said to be the best ever in his position. Eg Stephen Cluxton is the greatest goalkeeper ever. Kerry had Jack O Se the greatest midfielder ever and possibly the greatest footballer ever. They had Pat Spillane the greatest number 12 in the history of the game . And Mickey Sheedy the greatest number 15 in the history of the game. They also had Paudi O Se possibly the greatest number 5 ever. While John O Keefe Ogie Moran Ger Power John Egan Bomber Liston are some of the greatest players of the modern era.

Kerry had to face tougher opposition then Dublin. Kerry had to beat one of the greatest teams ever, the Dublin team 74 -77. This Dublin have not faced an All time great team. That is a fact. Also every year Kerry faced an excellent Cork team who were a top Division 1 team and where regularly in the top 3 in country. Dublin have not had to face top Division 1 team in their provience since the early noughties. Also in ther 70s you had very good Meath and Armagh teams.

In the west you had a brillant Roscomon team ,one of the greatst teams to come west of the Shannon in the last 50 years. A brillant defence backboned by the Great Harry Keegan and at midfield one of the greatest talent to ever cross the Shannon , the late great Dermot Earley senior. That Roscomon team won 5 Connachts and Roscommons first league and gave the greatest team ever one of their toughest finals. You also had a brillant Offaly team led by the most naturally talented footballer ever, Matt Connor. Offaly 82 was a brillant team. In the mid 80s Tyrone and Monaghan had two excellent teams. Which in any other era would have won an All Ireland. The Monaghan team 85 is Monaghans greatest team ever. And the Tyrone 84- 86 was up to that point Tyrone greatst team ever led by warriors like Donaghy John Lynch Eugene McKenna and Frank McGuigan. That team was a much superior outfit to the current Tyrone team. Would any current footballer be as brillant as the great Frank McGuigan.

In comparison Dublin have been great but so many counties are hitting record low levels.

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corny

Bonniedog wrote: »

Ampro, the thing about winning is you win.

Five All Irelands out of seven.

Oh yes ,,,,,

Strange to me that people never understand what it takes to win these games.

Dublin have beaten Mayo and Kerry consistently by slim margins and some still don't see a pattern in it. The 'what ifs' for the opposition always take centre stage. Surely winning by one point and never losing by one point can't be written off as sheer luck (or bad luck for the opposition).

aidan24326

You could argue that the current Dublin team are brushing aside some fairly weak opposition. However the Kerry team of the late 70s/early 80s had it just as easy (if not easier).

At the end of the day you can only beat what's put in front of you. Are Tyrone a bad team? Or did Dublin just make them look bad? I'm inclined to go for the second option.

Whether Dublin are the best team we've seen I don't know. But I don't think there's ever been a stronger squad. Never been a manager that can comfortably leave the likes Connolly, Flynn, Brogan and McMenamin on the bench. Not to mention MDM and Cormac Costelloe. All 6 of them would pretty much walk onto almost any other county team. It's that strength in depth that sets them apart and it's something Mayo don't have.

The_Kew_Tour

Sonny you were great at getting your point across.

May have disagreed with a lot of it but you gave your reasons

Paulzx

Amprodude wrote: »

This team are just average at their greatest .

There are plenty of good arguments to be made that this Dublin team might not compare favourably with the great teams of other generations.
It is easy to dispute monikers such as "the greatest team ever" when it comes to this Dublin team and i don't buy into it myself (yet)

However, to describe a team that wins a 3 in a row as "average" is just plain daft. The difficulty in winning a 3 in a row is obvious when you look at how infrequently it is done.

The word average is defined as "a standard or level that is considered to be typical or usual

Dublin are a lot of things but they are categorically not "average"

Shurimgreat

Look hats off to Dublin, they usually hold their composure and that's crucial in the dying minutes of a game.
On the otherhand, Mayo have been continually let down by their composure which has probably cost this current team 2 or 3 AIs.
They should have beaten Dublin in 2013, 2016 and 2017 with a little more composure and better tactics. Basic individual errors badly let them down (2016 own goals and 2017 sending off). Basic tactical errors let them down in 2016 (goalie swap) and 2013 (leaving on players who were not playing well or leaving players marking injured Dublin players).
2014 we should have beaten Kerry if we managed Donaghy better.
That said we have a shallow pool of players to choose from compared to Dublin and while Dublin seem to be able to refresh their panel with ease and rotate players in and out with ease, we struggle.

I don't believe in bad luck or curses. You make your own luck and tactics decide most things. Composure under pressure is a huge asset in sport and is often the difference between victory and defeat.

Mayo will continue to learn. But again I would add, its very difficult to expect a county with the population of Mayo to compete with a county the population of Dublin. To come close is a phenomenal achievement.

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

But to back up other posts. sonny should stay.

I've gotten a few bans which I took on chin!, but this forum is good and mostly civilized and people from all counties have their say. Even jayop if he ever returns from some godforsaken place in Tyrone.

Worse again. He lives in some sort of godforsaken place in Sligo.

aidan24326

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Mayo will continue to learn. But again I would add, its very difficult to expect a county with the population of Mayo to compete with a county the population of Dublin. To come close is a phenomenal achievement.

While Dublin may have a big population, a sizeable percentage of that population would have little or no interest in GAA.

Dublin always had the biggest population and didn't really dominate the game at any stage until now (aside from the very early days). What they have now is an exceptional squad of players, but that won't always be the case. Like what's happened with Kilkenny hurlers, they'll come back to the pack eventually.

mickmackey1

aidan24326 wrote: »

Like what's happened with Kilkenny hurlers, they'll come back to the pack eventually.

Kilkenny don't have multi-million sponsorships tho.

corny

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Kilkenny don't have multi-million sponsorships tho.

Or a football team to fund.

Shurimgreat

aidan24326 wrote: »

While Dublin may have a big population, a sizeable percentage of that population would have little or no interest in GAA.

Dublin always had the biggest population and didn't really dominate the game at any stage until now (aside from the very early days). What they have now is an exceptional squad of players, but that won't always be the case. Like what's happened with Kilkenny hurlers, they'll come back to the pack eventually.

The same applies to every county. In Cork, gaelic football, hurling, rugby, soccer, basketball, rowing, boxing, athletics etc etc are fairly major sports.
Its the same in every county. We don't just play gaelic football in Mayo, there are countless other sports played as well. So lets say 25% of the population are into GAA in Mayo and 25% are into GAA in Dublin, either way Dublin is going to have a huge advantage.

Powerhouse

Shurimgreat wrote: »

But again I would add, its very difficult to expect a county with the population of Mayo to compete with a county the population of Dublin. To come close is a phenomenal achievement.

Mayo has a similar population to Kerry and 34 All-Irelands less so population is not the issue.

Sonny678

Thanks for all the nice words lads.
I do appreciate it.
And remeber the O Bryne Cup , FBD cup, McKenna Cup are just a couple of months away and then straight back into the league , and everything starts up again.
Keep up the great work.
Keep it real til then
PEACE
Sonny
PS
Meath for Sam 2039

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

Thanks for all the nice words lads.
I do appreciate it.
And remeber the O Bryne Cup , FBD cup, McKenna Cup are just a couple of months away and then straight back into the league , and everything starts up again.
Keep up the great work.
Keep it real til then
PEACE
Sonny
PS
Meath for Sam 2039

See you in January. Though non doubt you'll be having a gander on here.

when the football draw is done come October.

Sonny678

Of course I will BonnieSituation.
And sure maybe a Meath v Dublin first round match might come up in the leinster championship 2018 draw in October. We haven't had one of them in a long long time. Bring the Dubs to Navan. I can just see it now. Hill 16 on tour into the Royal County .

ProudDUB

Amprodude wrote: »

Seriously guys this Dublin team have barely fallen over the line in All Ireland finals and people saying they are unbeatable the dream team etc. Come on ffs only for Mayo pressing the self destruct button on the last 2 All Irelands we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. This team are just average at their greatest and because Leinster is so weak right now makes Dublin look alot better than what they really are. The Kerry and Tyrone teams of the 00's, the 80's Cork and Meath teams/Kerry team of the 1970's would maul this team single handedly.

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

Of course I will BonnieSituation.
And sure maybe a Meath v Dublin first round match might come up in the leinster championship 2018 draw in October. We haven't had one of them in a long long time. Bring the Dubs to Navan. I can just see it now. Hill 16 on tour into the Royal County .

That would be glorious. But hardly likely, as Meath and Dublin were both in the SF in Leinster this year we'll all get byes into the QF so will be apart until at least the SF in 2018.

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

Of course I will BonnieSituation. And sure maybe a Meath v Dublin first round match might come up in the leinster championship 2018 draw in October. We haven't had one of them in a long long time. Bring the Dubs to Navan. I can just see it now. Hill 16 on tour into the Royal County .

Last time that happened it as an under 21 match a few years ago right?

I remember Meath had 2 defenders from Ratoath, blondly lads, one was excellent on Mannion at left half back, the full back was great then too.
Neither made the senior team. I can safely say that the Meath u21 full back was far better than the senior fullback that year and the next, 2014 I think

Sonny678

Stoner, I think you might be talking about Simon Carty from.Dunderry and David McQuillan from St Pats from U21 2013. team. The 2014 Under team 21 had two Ratoath lads Conor McGill and Brian Power.

I think the guy your on about is Carty. Played in challenge games and Byrne cup but yet to make the step up. Yes your right he was tenacious in the tackle. McQuillan was on the senior panel last year . The Ratoath lads are already regulars. Probaly be Meaths full back Conor McGill and Brian Power will be center back for coming years . Heaslin from Westmeath destroyed McGill in the infamous game in 2015 v Westmeath. But since that he has settled in the position. And was our best defender last year. Along with Keoghan I think we have 2/3 of a good full back line.

Meaths problem for the last 15 years is the half back line. We have not had a top class wing back since Martin O Connell ( Even though Pat Reynolds jnr was a great grafter) and we have not had a top class centre back since Liam Harnan. Half back line has been a problem area since 2001. Until we sort this out we are going nowhere fast. Divsion 2 for another couple of years. All the top teams have top class half back lines eg Dublin Mcarthy McCaffrey, Mayo Boyle Keegan Donegal Lacey Thompson.

Amprodude

ProudDUB wrote: »

No bitterness at all. Just calling a spade a spade. Donegal 2011-14 team showed up this team. Mayo had the measure too but silly errors really did cost them. Do I think Dublin will win 4 in a row? No way. In a way Dublin are lucky to be where they are now.

The Talking Bread

Amprodude wrote: »

ProudDUB wrote: »

No bitterness at all. Just calling a spade a spade. Donegal 2011-14 team showed up this team. Mayo had the measure too but silly errors really did cost them. Do I think Dublin will win 4 in a row? No way. In a way Dublin are lucky to be where they are now.

"No way"

I'm far from a Dublin fan but that is an "opinion" that is pretty silly. Putting it mildly.

The whole post makes no sense at all?? Think about it.

One: Dublin won 3 All Irelands between 2011 and 2015 (yet Donegal beat them in that period which means that they were completely shown up.

2. Errors cost you All Irelands. Its not just bad luck, its bad performance trait. Being clinical and not making silly errors isn't good "luck", it is a sign of a good team.
You are essentially twisting these points around which makes no sense.

3. 5 All Irelands in 7 Championships....."lucky to be there" ?
They are lucky to have certain luxuries to support them but" "lucky to be there".....what does that even mean!!

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

Stoner, I think you might be talking about Simon Carty from.Dunderry and David McQuillan from St Pats from U21 2013. team. The 2014 Under team 21 had two Ratoath lads Conor McGill and Brian Power.

It was McQuillan and McGill. Think I posted about them here

Bonniedog

Amprodude wrote: »

No bitterness at all. Just calling a spade a spade. Donegal 2011-14 team showed up this team. Mayo had the measure too but silly errors really did cost them. Do I think Dublin will win 4 in a row? No way. In a way Dublin are lucky to be where they are now.

So if winning a three in a row and five from seven is not sign of perhaps a slightly great team, then what would they need to do to convince you?

Dancing bears? Dean Rock win the Eurovision? Gavin to lead final assault on Islamic State?

blanch152

Bonniedog wrote: »

So if winning a three in a row and five from seven is not sign of perhaps a slightly great team, then what would they need to do to convince you?

Dancing bears? Dean Rock win the Eurovision? Gavin to lead final assault on Islamic State?

You will find that some of the most bitter posters on here refuse to define what a great team's achievements should be for fear that Dublin will meet their target.

STB.

Stoner wrote: »

How the hell can anyone pick the best team ever! We've all only seen about 4 of them

Too true.

A wind up merchant. Probably from Meath, who knows fúck all about gaelic football.

They are the best team I have seen in my lifetime.

Bonniedog

I've seen all teams since early 70s. Have no problem saying that most formidable were Kerry from 1978 to 1985. Mostly unbeatable in all of those years except Cork and of course in 1982 by the biffos. Rossies gave it a shout in 1980. Dubs were beaten docket by 1978, missed them in 1983 and never really looked liked winning in '84 or '85.

This Dublin team is close, and are not finished.

Meath were good then as were Cork, Rossies for a year or two and Offaly. Mayo might be recalled as similar to those four in that they came close to beating the big two but never did. Not until later. Whether Mayo do none of us knows.

In a final I mean.

BPKS

Its hard to compare a team with one that played 30 years ago.

But if Dublin win another All Ireland in 2018 or 2019, I think it would be hard to say they are not better than the Kerry team of the 00s who won 5 AIs, including 3 in 4 years, in that decade.

corny

Can we change the thread title to most successful team. Surely thats the only metric worth a **** in a comparison over the ages. And even then its weak imo.

Dublin would massacre the Kerry team of the 70's if you could arrange the match tomorrow.

mickmackey1

corny wrote: »

Dublin would massacre the Kerry team of the 70's if you could arrange the match tomorrow.

Most of them are over 60 to be fair.

djPSB

In time, when this Dubs team is compared to other great teams, it will always be remembered that two of the wins were against a very mentally fragile Mayo team. Therefore, they will never be considered the greatest.

Bonniedog

djPSB wrote: »

In time, when this Dubs team is compared to other great teams, it will always be remembered that two of the wins were against a very mentally fragile Mayo team. Therefore, they will never be considered the greatest.

That's bollix, pardon the French.

Mayo have been within kick of a ball against Dublin and beaten them in 2012. Dublin had to come back against Kerry from what looked like losing positions in 2011, 2013 and last year.

Dublin in 1978 and 1979 when Kerry began their four in a row just collapsed after 20 minutes. You can not seriously argue that this Dublin team has had easier road. Were not at the races in 1984 and threw a few shapes the year after but never looked like winning. Same with Tyrone in 1986.