grogi wrote: » But it is political. A road infrastructure influences where direct investments go (you would like to build your factory in a place, where products can be shipped from). Investments bring jobs and prosperity.
marno21 wrote: » fonzy951 wrote: » The NRR (atleast eastern part) will have to be done in parallel with the M20, I can't understand why this has been omitted from planning. All road building projects should be completely removed from politics and an independent FAIR body should be setup immediately (TII are incompetent) which prioritize on criteria such as safety, traffic levels etc.. and not on where the minister comes from or they got their planning first nonsense. The M20 and NRR should have been built away ahead of some completed projects around the country and its a real scandal tbh. TII have had the M20 as their top priority with near on 10 years, but they have been told not to build it and build other schemes instead The current plans for roads are the result of political interference, not the TII.
fonzy951 wrote: » The NRR (atleast eastern part) will have to be done in parallel with the M20, I can't understand why this has been omitted from planning. All road building projects should be completely removed from politics and an independent FAIR body should be setup immediately (TII are incompetent) which prioritize on criteria such as safety, traffic levels etc.. and not on where the minister comes from or they got their planning first nonsense. The M20 and NRR should have been built away ahead of some completed projects around the country and its a real scandal tbh.
neddynasty wrote: » Will a successful bid for the Rugby World Cup 2023 have any bearing on the M20? Could a successful bid expedite the planning/building of the M20? Thomand and Pairc Ui Chaoimh are on the list to host games if the WRC bid is successful. The M7 widening was completed for the Ryder Cup in The K Club.
marno21 wrote: » TII have had the M20 as their top priority with near on 10 years, but they have been told not to build it and build other schemes instead The current plans for roads are the result of political interference, not the TII.
Aontachtoir wrote: » Creating a political ruckus is absolutely not the job of TII. They set out the road options and the costs, with recommendations for how the money available is best spent. Politicians then approve one project or another based on how much money is available to their departments. The fact that other desperately-needed roads which cost less were done before another desperately-needed road which was unaffordably expensive is neither incompetence nor malice. It's just making the best of a bad situation.
fonzy951 wrote: » Aontachtoir wrote: » Creating a political ruckus is absolutely not the job of TII. They set out the road options and the costs, with recommendations for how the money available is best spent. Politicians then approve one project or another based on how much money is available to their departments. The fact that other desperately-needed roads which cost less were done before another desperately-needed road which was unaffordably expensive is neither incompetence nor malice. It's just making the best of a bad situation. Politicians SHOULD not be deciding on which projects get funded first (for obvious reasons) imo, the TII or another independent expert body should be allocated funds from government and they should decide what goes ahead.
fonzy951 wrote: » Politicians SHOULD not be deciding on which projects get funded first (for obvious reasons) imo, the TII or another independent expert body should be allocated funds from government and they should decide what goes ahead.
Aontachtoir wrote: » That sounds great. However, you and I both know that if this was to go ahead, the same people would be complaining about "unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats" deciding where to invest in our infrastructure - especially when they find out that certain projects are still going to be prioritized ahead of their own preferred projects. There just isn't enough money for everything to happen at once. Someone has to make the call on which projects get approved and which get postponed, and there is no perfect model for doing this. In a country like this one, the most sustainable model is to have an elected official acting on the advice of an expert panel, taking the wishes of citizens into account too.
fonzy951 wrote: » Aontachtoir wrote: » That sounds great. However, you and I both know that if this was to go ahead, the same people would be complaining about "unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats" deciding where to invest in our infrastructure - especially when they find out that certain projects are still going to be prioritized ahead of their own preferred projects. There just isn't enough money for everything to happen at once. Someone has to make the call on which projects get approved and which get postponed, and there is no perfect model for doing this. In a country like this one, the most sustainable model is to have an elected official acting on the advice of an expert panel, taking the wishes of citizens into account too. I think you mean taking the interest's of their own VOTERS into account when making the final decision I know we don't have the money to build everything at once, that's why you start with projects with greatest need first surely. The TII or another independent expert body should decide where the funds are allocated based on set criteria, projects with greatest requirements should be built first, this would take political interference out of the equation. No wonder Waterford have better roads than Cork, I'm sure the previous Minister Cullen pondered long and hard over the NRA reports on deciding where funds should be allocated.
Doltanian wrote: » 500m to 1 billion is small change, I can't see why they don't borrow the money and open a temporary toll plaza with a countdown timer @ €2 per journey and it wouldn't take that long before it would be paid back, this idea of long 30 year concessions is a joke and the tolls should be lifted when the thing is paid for. There isn't a huge amount of money for building new motorways but they would pay for themselves with increased economic output, and economic growth, use a temporary toll to help pay them. If there was a nationwide network of motorways built costing say €10bn it would give the country a huge economic boost and I'd happily pay the toll each time.
marno21 wrote: » https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/913057443067912192 So Leo has once again told us he is all for the M20. This is encouraging, a big difference from the attitude of our last "leader" towards the project. The opening of 54km of motorway and 4km of dual carriageway between Tuam and Gort today means we now have an Atlantic Corridor from south of Milltown to Patrickswell. The gaping hole between Patrickswell and Blarney will now be clear for all to see, and will become a major issue come election time as the opening of the M17/M18 has been fairly well publicised and yet again Cork gets left in the 1980s.
Aontachtoir wrote: » TII have had many roads that they did not receive funding to build, many in areas as poorly or more poorly served than the Cork-Limerick corridor. The M20 is projected to be extremely expensive, and you can't pull the trigger on a project like this without being pretty certain that funding will be available. A choice has to be made - send funding to other areas of the country and invest in smaller desperately-needed roads, or sit on the pile for several years of zero investment and wait for it to grow enough to build the M20? Cork are not victims of a conspiracy.
lucernarian wrote: » Aontachtoir wrote: » TII have had many roads that they did not receive funding to build, many in areas as poorly or more poorly served than the Cork-Limerick corridor. The M20 is projected to be extremely expensive, and you can't pull the trigger on a project like this without being pretty certain that funding will be available. A choice has to be made - send funding to other areas of the country and invest in smaller desperately-needed roads, or sit on the pile for several years of zero investment and wait for it to grow enough to build the M20? Cork are not victims of a conspiracy. There are two salient points this doesn't address in my mind. Why was the existing scheme not carried on to planning permission granting and CPO? That doesn't require 800 million euro. In the meantime, the M17/M18 was built. This 500 million euro wasn't a strategic intercity route and doesn't really serve Galway City itself (which still needs a lot of urgent road attention). It seems crazy that such an amount of money was available when the Macroom bypass and Dunkettle and perhaps the N/M28 also could have been done in a PPP of that value. I'm not from Cork but I could start understanding why they'd feel aggrieved by now.
AugustusMinimus wrote: » There’s questions and points to note. 1. Why was planning cancelled and now having to start all over again. 2. What is the delay in the Dunkettle scheme. This should have been prioritised over basically every scheme except M7 widening. 3. M28 is only being done due to European funding IMO 4. We are getting a macroom bypass but the Ovens to Macroom section is canned. 5. No word on the NRR 6. The N25 east of Midleton is a disgrace and nothing is being done to advance any scheme here. It’s bloody infuriating. All the time, Kenny and Noonan were having a great laugh at Corks expense. Coveney is a minister and he’s bloody useless for the city. If there was a sod turning for the M20 I still wouldn’t believe it’s going ahead.
AugustusMinimus wrote: » There’s questions and points to note. 1. Why was planning cancelled and now having to start all over again. 2. What is the delay in the Dunkettle scheme. This should have been prioritised over basically every scheme except M7 widening. 3. M28 is only being done due to European funding IMO [European Insistence] 4. We are getting a macroom bypass but the Ovens to Macroom section is canned. 5. No word on the NRR 6. The N25 east of Midleton is a disgrace and nothing is being done to advance any scheme here. It’s bloody infuriating. All the time, Kenny and Noonan were having a great laugh at Corks expense. Coveney is a minister and he’s bloody useless for the city. If there was a sod turning for the M20 I still wouldn’t believe it’s going ahead.
AugustusMinimus wrote: » Talks of a Limerick - Clare - Galway axis in the M18/17 thread as a counter balance to Dublin. I have no doubt that the downturn in public finances have a Mayo Taoiseach and a Limerick Finance Minister the perfect opportunity to under invest in Cork whole at the same time, advancing the 2 most costly schemes in the state, both in the west.
Aontachtoir wrote: » Be careful when you turn your head, mate, that chip on your shoulder is big enough to take your eye out. Looking forward to getting all the road upgrades in Cork approved by that Mayo Taoiseach and Limerick Minister for Finance. Especially looking forward to the M20 approved by that Dublin Taoiseach.
