Samaris wrote: » I agree with the second. Past history of recent referendums and elections indicate that the former may be in doubt. Probably comes down to if anyone actually cares enough to interfere on that sort of scale though. Personally, I expect a sort of interference-lite, people who are interested using methods gleaned from the major interferences we've seen elsewhere, but hopefully without the funds to start dragging in big players like Cambridge Analytica, etc. If foreign groups want to come in, honestly stand and talk about what they believe in and then go away again, fine. That's putting across an opinion and people will have to judge if their experiences and conclusions are relevant to the Irish people. But it has to be done honestly.
aloyisious wrote: » IMO, the outcome of the referendum vote will have no effect whatsoever on anyone in said foreign GROUPS and any foreign groups interference in our referendums is distinctly unwelcome.
recedite wrote: » I don't see a clampdown on free speech as being either possible or desirable. That whole IT article is based on a fundamental misunderstanding by the author of the relationship between "the state" and "free speech". The state has no mandate to ensure that each side gets equal publicity and advertising. The state is required to ensure that any guidance issued by the government is balanced, and any reporting by the state broadcaster (RTE) is balanced. That requirement does not extend to the regulation of private and/or social media. Confusion around this issue is probably partly as a result of the whole Trump/Russia mania which has gripped a large number of people unhappy with Trump's election result.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Edit: I don't see how what they're calling for in the last sentence is possible, however desirable it may be.
Abortion referendum: shadow campaigns Ireland needs to extend the principles of existing electoral legislation to include social media With only eight or nine months to go to the proposed referendum on the Eighth Amendment, how prepared is the State for the new challenges posed by lightly regulated, transnational social media platforms? Like other democracies, Ireland has built a legal framework to monitor and report on sources of funding for political campaigns, to ensure that broadcasters deal equitably with opposing views, and to prevent intentional dissemination of false information. However, recent experiences in the US, France and Germany have shown such measures fail to take account of a new reality: foreign interests can use services such as Facebook to target individual voters with carefully tailored, often misleading messages which will never be seen by the rest of the population. In its most recent annual report, the Standards in Public Office Commission (Sipo) noted that greater transparency was required on funding and expenditure on referendum campaigns. But that hardly begins to take account of what has happened in several major democracies in the past year. In the US, special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference on behalf of Donald Trump’s campaign continues. This week, Facebook admitted it cannot say for certain whether profiles or pages connected to Russia had purchased ads during the French and German election campaigns. If any issue is guaranteed to draw attention and partisan support from outside this jurisdiction – on both sides of the debate – it is abortion. Currently, if an overseas entity were to launch a Facebook campaign of advertisements, pseudo-news sites and fake accounts, it is possible that this would not even be recognised until after the vote had taken place. And it is clear that Sipo or any other agency would be unable to compel Facebook to hand over any relevant information. This is unacceptable and makes a mockery of the State’s claim to provide an untainted civic space. In common with other democracies, Ireland needs to move swiftly to extend the principles of existing electoral legislation to include social media.
Venues cancelling meetings about abortion, both sides say Hotels withdrawing permission for pro- and anti- meetings over 'intimidation' Both anti-abortion and pro-choice groups have complained about venues withdrawing permission for campaign meetings due to "intimidation" and pressure from rival factions. Three Dublin hotels have cancelled anti-abortion events this week due to online campaigns from pro-choice activists, according to the organising groups. The groups allege pro-choice activists engaged in online "abuse" of hotel staff to force the cancellation of the events. Pro-choice campaigners have in turn complained of a number of venues withdrawing permission for events to be held on their premises due to their "political" character. Niamh Uhriain of the Life Institute said her organisation, in association with another anti-abortion group, Unbroken, had booked conference facilities in the Gibson Hotel in the IFSC for an event due to be held on Thursday evening. The event involves women who have been raped or were born as a result of rape speaking on the topic of abortion. "At the end of last week The Gibson rang and said the event was cancelled. We were pretty shocked," Ms Uhriain said. The hotel had told her "it was afraid of abortion protesters and of what it would mean for the hotel. They were afraid for the safety of the hotel and the staff. We tried to persuade them but they weren’t persuaded". Ms Uhriain said the event was then moved to the Spencer Hotel, also in the IFSC, and that the organisers warned the hotel it might get complaints. She said the Spencer cancelled the event three days later, citing abuse and intimidation its staff members were receiving online. She said activists tracked down the personal social media accounts of hotel staff to object to the event. "I can actually understand where they [the hotel] are coming from; the staff were intimidated." A spokeswoman for The Spencer refused to say if its staff had received threats or intimidation and said it would not publicly discuss a private contract. The meeting went ahead last night in a public square around the corner from the Spencer Hotel with a sizeable crowd turning out to hear several speakers talk on the issue of women who become pregnant from rape. Louise, a woman from the UK who addressed the crowd and asked not to be further identified, was 18 when she was raped and found herself "railroaded" into having an abortion. "I grieved terribly for the baby," she said. "My feeling is at the moment women and babies in Ireland are protected ... If the eighth amendment is done away with, women will end up having abortions they don’t want." A number of gardaurrounded the square but there were no signs of counter protests. Separately, another anti-abortion group, Human Life International, has complained that the Ashling Hotel on Parkgate Street in Dublin refused to host an event it planned for this Saturday on the alleged health consequences of abortion. "We had booked it a number of weeks ago. We had put a significant amount of money into advertising," said the group’s executive director, Patrick McCrystal. "Folks who advocated a pro-abortion viewpoint started to contact the hotel. The manager himself said there were diatribes, intimidation, threats, to such a degree that he had no choice but to cancel." Mr McCrystal called on the Garda to investigate alleged threats. The Ashling Hotel was also asked for comment but had yet to respond. The Human Life International event is now being hosted by the Spencer Hotel instead. Mr McCrystal said that as far as he knows, it is still going ahead there on Saturday. Groups campaigning to repeal the eighth amendment also said a number of venues for their meetings had been cancelled due to pressure from anti-abortion activists. In the last month organisers of three "Repeal the Eighth" meetings in Dublin had to find alternative venues after permission was withdrawn on the grounds that "political meetings" were prohibited. In Tallaght, People Before Profit councillor Emma Hendrick had to find a new venue for once such meeting she had organised for last Monday after management at the Kilnamanagh Family Recreation Centre called her that morning to cancel it. She said she had told the centre last month it was for a Repeal the Eighth meeting and there was no problem. But "on Monday morning I got a call from a gentleman at the centre who said the centre didn’t host political meetings. I asked him why I hadn’t been told this before, and he said he had only just found out about the meeting". When contacted, a spokeswoman for the centre said: "We don’t want to talk about that." In Raheny, Dublin, Solidarity councillor Michael O’Brien had to find a new venue for a Repeal meeting on September 21st after management at the Grange Woodbine Community Centre cancelled his booking. When contacted, the club said it had a policy of not allowing political meetings in the bar. In Ashtown, Dublin, a Repeal meeting planned by Solidarity TD Ruth Coppinger was cancelled by the manager of the Douglas and Kaldi cafn early September, the day before it was to take place. Ms Coppinger said she made it "absolutely clear" what the meeting was about when booking. But Aileen Kelleher, owner of the cafe, said she had not known the meeting was political and cancelled it when this was drawn to her attention. "We don’t allow political meetings," she said. The meeting was held elsewhere.
Samaris wrote: » No idea regarding whether it was threats or not, HD, I'm only going on what the newspaper articles were saying, and I gave both versions indicating I didn't know which was true.
There is also the third option that someone is lying to spread the idea that one side or the other (presumably the anti-choice/pro-life side) were threatened into silence, but that is getting into speculation beyond what either article alleged.
Mark Hamill wrote: » Hold on, threats of violence or threats of demonstration? I completely condemn threats of violence, but demonstration is completely fine. And have the hotels confirmed these threats or are the only claims of threats coming from the anti-choice groups (I read somewhere else that the hotels had yet to comment themselves).
aloyisious wrote: » Hopefully what is being reported as happening in Dublin to a group of rape survivors [Unbroken Ireland] re their meeting bookings at two Dublin hotels over the past two days is not going to be a preview of things to come over the next 9 or so months. The Gibson and - EDIT - the Spencer hotel cancelled because they were contacted and threats were allegedly made against their staff if the hotels allowed the booked meetings go ahead. The threats were anonymous. Some-one obviously had knowledge of the two bookings in order for the reported threats to be made. The meeting were partly arranged by the Life Institute and SPUC is involved in some way. I inputted wording seeking the names of the two hotels and one link popped up..... The link states: An event hosted by Unbroken Ireland, a group which represents and advocates for those affected by pregnancy after rape, has had its booking cancelled after pro-abortion protesters threatened to demonstrate against it.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » You'll never believe this guys, but he's called off the 'hunger strike'.http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/273149/donegal-anti-abortion-campaigner-ends-hunger-strike-action-in-dublin.html Must have reached his target weight...
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Must have reached his target weight...
aloyisious wrote: » Watched 1st few minutes of Tim Jackson and Sean Moncrieff [on F/B] at Newstalk discussing his hunger strike in support of the keep the 8th amendment. Tim told Sean that he is continuing the hunger strike but not always outside at the Dail, moving indoors at a friends house in the evening as he could catch a cold or flu in the outside air [or words to that effect]. He also said he would continue his hunger strike until the Oireachtas abortion committee and Leo Varadkar watched a video of an abortion before deciding on a referendum to what happens the victims. The video was shot on, apparently, the 2nd day of the reported hunger strike. If one is interested in the [sponsored] Tim Jackson - Newstalk interview video, it is probably available online. I won't promo his POV any further. Edit/add-on.... ROSA F/B page posted a link to a Sunday Times article in which The Times claims Tim Jackson works at an unregulated crisis pregnancy agency, Gianni Care. Surprisingly I can't find said agency through google. The Times mentioned in the link may be the Irish edition of the Times. The link given is one restricted to a pay-for-view readership but I'll post it anyway as there may PFV people here.... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiv3IOSi7_WAhXJI8AKHVx5BggQFgglMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Fedition%2Fireland%2Fanti-abortion-activist-works-for-crisis-pregnancy-agency-0zdg3jk0j&usg=AFQjCNE9Kd3ruOdgoc_rT47oYVVVqW1EYA
flaneur wrote: » That, or maybe a lot or people genuinely didn't see any argument in favour of removing the age limit?
seamus wrote: » When if you think about it, it was two votes on the right of individuals to equal treatment - one based on sexuality, one based on age. So they both should have passed. But because the latter was barely even looked at, people voted "no" by default.
