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High Noon with George Hook.

kneemos

A full ten minutes to get to the Muslims,and now it's Rugby.Not much has changed.

Sounds in good form anyway.

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optogirl

DeadHand wrote: »

Alright then, quote a single post made on these boards within the past ten years telling us "Not all men are rapists... But expect all men are rapists" or an argument to that effect.

Quote a single post made on these boards in the last ten years telling us "if women spend time alone with a man they can reasonably expect to be raped" or an argument to that effect.

As for society in general (how conveniently vague) I'm yet to hear a single person express the ugly sentiments you claim to hear so often, so either we move in dramatically different circles or you are making stuff up.

I'm not saying that one person or persons has said both of these things at once but we get these conflicting messages all the time. There are any amount of threads in GC about feminism/feminiazis (shudder) and the vilification of men. Then we are called hysterical when we react to people saying that the victim of a rape should take some responsibility for the rape or should not be surprised to be the victim of rape.

The Rape of Lucretia

DeadHand wrote: »

His general point (that people have a responsibility to themselves to avoid danger as much as possible) was correct- how he expressed it was wrong.

And everybody knows what he meant. Jumping on a poorly expressed line that of effectively the same logic as many have expressed here along the lines of - if you leave your car unlocked and it is stolen, the thieves not you are still responsible for it being stolen, but you should have locked it - is just nonsense.

You would think he had said - that women who have sex outside marriage, are skanks who probably will be raped and deservedly so, and the law should be changed to reflect that - then he would correctly be seen to be way outside the norms of accepted attitude and behaviour in Ireland and expect to be vilified. I would still feel he has a right to say it nonetheless - and the rest of us to criticism his view. And he should expect and accept the criticism or sanction by his employer giving him public airtime were he to say something so out there.

But he didnt say that. This whole discussion, petitions, apologies, sackings, is all going along as if he did. The only people with any guilt in this issue are those jumping on their high (noon) horses and loosing their reason and run of themselves to be offended.

DeadHand

chicken foot wrote: »

Those who believe this girl was partly at fault, obviously!
Are women to presume all men are rapists from here on in? Is that a fair assumption in order for them not to put themselves in harm's way?

More hysteria.

Very few people actually believe the girl was partly at fault- if they do they are wrong. I don't think she was, and I do not believe Hook thinks she was.

Women (and everyone else) can keep themselves out of harms way without presuming all men are rapists- millions of men, women and children manage it everyday.

DeadHand

optogirl wrote: »

Boardsies for a start and society in general. I have so often heard the old 'Feminists are man haters' trope but I am also hearing that if we spend time alone with a man we can reasonably expect to be raped.

Alright then, quote a single post made on these boards within the past ten years telling us "Not all men are rapists... But expect all men are rapists" or an argument to that effect.

Quote a single post made on these boards in the last ten years telling us "if women spend time alone with a man they can reasonably expect to be raped" or an argument to that effect.

As for society in general (how conveniently vague) I'm yet to hear a single person express the ugly sentiments you claim to hear so often, so either we move in dramatically different circles or you are making stuff up.

meeeeh

optogirl wrote: »

Boardsies for a start and society in general. I have so often heard the old 'Feminists are man haters' trope but I am also hearing that if we spend time alone with a man we can reasonably expect to be raped.

This now is hysteria gone in overdrive. We keep in different society then because that certainly isn't my experience.

Anyway I dislike how the calls are made for Hook to be gone, but I also dislike how those signing the letter are vilified. Firstly nobody here knows who signed petition, neither does anyone know under how much pressure those working on NT are from twitterati, sponsors and others. Singling out one or the other for abuse just because some think they signed the letter and why they signed it is complete mob mentality. This became really ugly on both sides, mob on both sides either looking for blood or making themselves to be victims because everyone needs to be a victim today.

foxtrot101

ballsymchugh wrote: »

is today's show a pre record???

No, in the bit I heard he read out a text message.

chicken foot

DeadHand wrote: »

Told by whom?

Those who believe this girl was partly at fault, obviously!
Are women to presume all men are rapists from here on in? Is that a fair assumption in order for them not to put themselves in harm's way?

mikep

MC had items over 2 days consisting of people discussing the issue generally agreeing that Hook was a monster and should be taken to task.
Matt also dug up an old clip of Hook reacting particularly badly in a TV interview when he was described as one who stokes controversy.
My overall sense was that Cooper was taking great relish in Hooks situation.

ballsymchugh

is today's show a pre record???

optogirl

DeadHand wrote: »

Told by whom?

Boardsies for a start and society in general. I have so often heard the old 'Feminists are man haters' trope but I am also hearing that if we spend time alone with a man we can reasonably expect to be raped.

pilly

mikep wrote: »

I find Matt Coopers intervention very hard to take..what he has done over the last few days is a textbook hatchet job on an opponent. This from the man who regularly had Katie Hopkins and years ago had Kalhid Kelly on just to wind people up..I recall these people regularly making "innapropriate or upsetting comments"..those are just 2 I can think of at the moment..
While he may not have agreed with what they say he gave them a platform without robustly challenging them in order to boost his listener-ship.

What did Matt Cooper do?

DeadHand

optogirl wrote: »

Point is women are told 'Not all men are rapists....but you should assume all men are rapists'

Told by whom?

mikep

I find Matt Coopers intervention very hard to take..what he has done over the last few days is a textbook hatchet job on an opponent. This from the man who regularly had Katie Hopkins and years ago had Kalhid Kelly on just to wind people up..I recall these people regularly making "innapropriate or upsetting comments"..those are just 2 I can think of at the moment..
While he may not have agreed with what they say he gave them a platform without robustly challenging them in order to boost his listener-ship.

chicken foot

DeadHand wrote: »

Wow.

Anyone who agrees with Hook is a "potential rapist" now. We've reached peak hysteria.

I agree with the general spirit of Hook's argument (but not how he worded it).

Suppose I better hand myself over to the authorities before I rape someone.

That's not what I said or meant at all.
Have you ever had a one night stand?
If so, did you find your urge to Rape to increase/decrease/be non-existant during that encounter!?
Would you be offended if your date thought you could be a rapist?
Would you feel judged if she didn't go home with you because you "might" be a rapist?
Do you see where I'm going with this!?
"Not all men are rapists, don't judge us" but on the other hand "don't go home with me because I could be a rapist then it'll be partly your fault"
Which one is it to be?

To get back on point, we know he doesn't condone rape, we know he thinks rapists are animals BUT he still felt the need to point out that it was somewhat her fault therefore diminishing her right to be a victim and somehow giving leeway to the rapist because sure, she was right there...by her own doing!!! That's where he ****ed up. If you can't see that this is wrong then you're slightly sick in the head.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

jooksavage wrote: »

This. 100 times this.

The most damaging thing I heard for Hook over the last few days was Matt Coopers piece on Monday where he actually cited Hook's unapologetic Twitter defenders. If those guys had cooled their jets and rolled in behind Hook's genuine-sounding mea culpa, this situation may not have gotten as out of hand.

That's definitely not true. There were people out for his blood, not only Twitter users, but other on air presenters and backroom staff in Newstalk, Fintan O Toole (who I like) of the Irish Times amongst others. People were lining up for their pound of flesh!

The interesting part in all of this story is how most of the ordinary public actually accept that Hook made a mistake, has apologised, and now want to move on from the story. This appears to have played out as more of a media bubble witch hunt than anything else at this stage.

Larbre34

DeadHand wrote: »

His general point (that people have a responsibility to themselves to avoid danger as much as possible) was correct- how he expressed it was wrong.

To use the word "blame" in referring to a rape victim was inappropriate. He apologised for it.

And the sanctimonious mob trying to destroy him now would still be doing so even were there no public support for Hook.

I couldn't agree more, this has become a sickening witch-hunt because the man uttered the word blame instead of 'responsibility' or similar in what he said.

I knew one of his daughter's well growing up and though Hook can be ham-fisted, sensationalist and a bit of a bluffer at the best of times, he and his wife raised great kids and I don't think for one nano-second he holds women to 'blame' in any way for sexual violence.

The essence of what he said was right, and its the nightmare of every parent of girls, every father of a child who goes out to the local sports club disco wearing jeans but with a mini-skirt and a shoulder of vodka in her backpack "what if she loses control of herself and situation?"

I would always, always say to my daughter, your first responsibility is to limit the risk to yourself, no matter the scenario.

The "outrage" from his colleagues is absolutely disgusting. Imagine in your own job if your colleagues hopped off you at the first opportunity rather than give you the benefit of the doubt after 13 years service. They are protecting their own a*ses from potential loss of sponsors and listeners rather than allowing due process and a calm assessment of the facts. The knee-jerk from the sponsors is just as bad.

I genuinely feel sad for Hook, his head must be spinning with the feelings of betrayal. Im glad for him the station boss has said he 'wont be railroaded' and Pat Kenny has tried to put some perspective on the situation

DeadHand

Ol' Donie wrote: »

The specifics of what he said are probably not enough to deserve this backlash.

However, I can't help thinking he's reaping the reward of at least 12 months of Michael Graham style provocation on this show.

He doesn't deserve a backlash of the scale and vitriol he is getting full-stop- not after apologising.

If people consider a dissenting voice "provocation" they are free to consume media more palatable to them.

Possibly in a safe space.

optogirl

DeadHand wrote: »

Wow.

Anyone who agrees with Hook is a "potential rapist" now. We've reached peak hysteria.

I agree with the general spirit of Hook's argument (but not how he worded it).

Suppose I better hand myself over to the authorities before I rape someone.

A deliberate misreading of what was said. Point is women are told 'Not all men are rapists....but you should assume all men are rapists'

Beechwoodspark

quintana76 wrote: »

Was impressed by Michael Graham showing Hook genuine friendship and support in a time of troubles. Pat also.
This contrasts with the odious behavior of 'stab em in the back' Chris Donoghue.

If he and his ilk become the future of NewsTalk the station is doomed.

Real amateur hour stuff from Chris but no surprise there. Yates better watch his back.

DeadHand

chicken foot wrote: »

toBy agreeing with Hook, that you believe women shouldn't go home with a stranger, then you are placing yourself in the position of being a potential rapist too.

Wow.

Anyone who agrees with Hook is a "potential rapist" now. We've reached peak hysteria.

I agree with the general spirit of Hook's argument (but not how he worded it).

Suppose I better hand myself over to the authorities before I rape someone.

Ol' Donie

DeadHand wrote: »

His general point (that people have a responsibility to themselves to avoid danger as much as possible) was correct- how he expressed it was wrong.

To use the word "blame" in referring to a rape victim was inappropriate. He apologised for it.

And the sanctimonious mob trying to destroy him now would still be doing so even were there no public support for Hook.

The specifics of what he said are probably not enough to deserve this backlash.

However, I can't help thinking he's reaping the reward of at least 12 months of Michael Graham style provocation on this show.

DeadHand

jooksavage wrote: »

If those guys had cooled their jets and rolled in behind Hook's genuine-sounding mea culpa, this situation may not have gotten as out of hand.

The mob would still be out for his blood.

The only difference is the internet would be an echo chamber on the issue. For Hook himself the situation would be much the same.

DeadHand

pilly wrote: »

You're just proving my point. Insisting that Hook was right even after he himself has admitted he was wrong is just foolishness.

His general point (that people have a responsibility to themselves to avoid danger as much as possible) was correct- how he expressed it was wrong.

To use the word "blame" in referring to a rape victim was inappropriate. He apologised for it.

And the sanctimonious mob trying to destroy him now would still be doing so even were there no public support for Hook.

pilly

The Specialist wrote: »

What he said was 100% correct - is personal responsibility gone out the window these days? You put yourself in a situation where some very bad outcomes can happen, and something bad then happens, you are then absolved of all responsibility? It's not diminishing anything to do with the horrific seriousness of rape, and he never worded it in that way - he posed a question that the PC brigade were quick to tear to shreds without fully understanding the point he was making.

You're just proving my point. Insisting that Hook was right even after he himself has admitted he was wrong is just foolishness.

quintana76

suicide_circus wrote: »

I can't see CD ever becoming the headliner in NT or anywhere else. He's not genuine or likeable enough.

Agreed. I think he is delusional and really believes he is being hard done by.

suicide_circus

quintana76 wrote: »

Was impressed by Michael Graham showing Hook genuine friendship and support in a time of troubles. Pat also.
This contrasts with the odious behavior of 'stab em in the back' Chris Donoghue.

If he and his ilk become the future of NewsTalk the station is doomed.

I can't see CD ever becoming the headliner in NT or anywhere else. He's not genuine or likeable enough.

bloodless_coup

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why do presenters always cite twitter. Who cares what people on twitter say. Do they decide everything? What percentage of the population use it? I don't and I don't know anyone who does.

Indeed. Or the articles on news websites with "twitter reacts to xxxx". All you get is about 4 embeds from randomers with 2 followers, zero re-tweets and 1 like. Who's give a **** what these people say.

ballsymchugh

If Hook does walk, then newstalk is in danger of becoming one big echo chamber. other than Ivan and Pat Kenny, everyone there *thinks* they're 40 or under.

you can tell from what's going around on twitter who the people who don't like him are, from Richard Chambers, Oisin Langan etc. I would be thinking that it's more reporters than presenters putting out there. newscorp pay feck all to their journalists, so they may not give a shyte anyway.

DickSwiveller

jooksavage wrote: »

This. 100 times this.

The most damaging thing I heard for Hook over the last few days was Matt Coopers piece on Monday where he actually cited Hook's unapologetic Twitter defenders. If those guys had cooled their jets and rolled in behind Hook's genuine-sounding mea culpa, this situation may not have gotten as out of hand.

Why do presenters always cite twitter. Who cares what people on twitter say. Do they decide everything? What percentage of the population use it? I don't and I don't know anyone who does.

jooksavage

pilly wrote: »

I actually think this thing would have gone away a lot quicker if people weren't trying to defend it.

This. 100 times this.

The most damaging thing I heard for Hook over the last few days was Matt Coopers piece on Monday where he actually cited Hook's unapologetic Twitter defenders. If those guys had cooled their jets and rolled in behind Hook's genuine-sounding mea culpa, this situation may not have gotten as out of hand.