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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

BluntGuy

The new M20 motorway inbetween Cork and Limerick. I've heard that there are many people that feel it's rather unnecessary considering the traffic volume.

I personally believe if they're going to upgrade the N20 route, they may as well use the safest long-term solution, which of course is a direct motorway link. But what do you all think?

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Reputable Rog

Kevwoody wrote: »

You are joking, right?

I think he was being sarcastic, the traditional solution in Ireland is to erect an Accident Black Spot sign, rather that fixing the actual problem.
Reminds of Varadkar, providing a commentary on the situation without actually doing anything.

exaisle

Middle Man wrote: »

The M20 is the solution!

Spot on. The collective gobsh1tes in Limerick and Cork county councils have dragged their heels on this for too long, not investing enough to correct the numerous black spots and bottlenecks on the basis that a motorway would be built at some stage, and the people who use the route have been extremely badly served by the politicians. A motorway should have been built years ago.

The route from Limerick to Galway is now served by a DC/motorway and I dare say that the volumes there are not much different from that on the Cork/Limerick route.

Finger out time.

Isambard

N20 is closed from Rathduff to Blarney with the usual inadequate diversions in place ie they divert you off the road and leave you find your own way...not too bad southbound as you use the old road but northbound they just send you into Blarney where there isn't an obvious route.

Artic van and two cars involved apparently with two Amercians killed and two more in the car injured. On the Waterloo junction apparently (not for the first time.

2 more lives lost waiting for the M20

RIP and condolences to the families.

marno21

exaisle wrote: »

Spot on. The collective gobsh1tes in Limerick and Cork county councils have dragged their heels on this for too long, not investing enough to correct the numerous black spots and bottlenecks on the basis that a motorway would be build at some stage, and the people who use the route have been extremely badly served by the politicians. A motorway should have been built years ago.

The route from Limerick to Galway is now served by a DC/motorway and I dare say that the volumes there are not much different from that on the Cork/Limerick route.

Finger out time.

This isn't the councils responsibility. The motorway could be close to construction if it was funded. There was zero, and I mean zero, as he made a point of it, funding available for Cork/Limerick under Kenny. He repeatedly told Cork people to shut up about it because they got their motorway to Dublin and that's enough for them, whilst two major roads into Mayo sail through the processes.

Since his comments 8 people have died on the M20, and his comments were at the start of 2016.

Isambard

blood on his hands

Kevwoody

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I think he was being sarcastic, the traditional solution in Ireland is to erect an Accident Black Spot sign, rather that fixing the actual problem.
Reminds of Varadkar, providing a commentary on the situation without actually doing anything.

Accident black spot signs were phased out years ago, I can't think of a single one anywhere, not on any national roads anyway.

Kevwoody

Shocking day on Irish roads, with 3 people including a child killed on the N17 near Claremorris.
I drove from Donegal to Cork City last night/this morning, little did I know 5 people would be dead on those roads a few hours later.

This probably isn't the time or place, but when you read that Noirin O'Sullivan will collect a lump sum of €300,000 and a €90,000 per year pension while people are dying on the roads because the same government won't invest in proper infrastructure, it's bloody sickening.

Reputable Rog

exaisle wrote: »

Spot on. The collective gobsh1tes in Limerick and Cork county councils have dragged their heels on this for too long, not investing enough to correct the numerous black spots and bottlenecks on the basis that a motorway would be build at some stage, and the people who use the route have been extremely badly served by the politicians. A motorway should have been built years ago.

The route from Limerick to Galway is now served by a DC/motorway and I dare say that the volumes there are not much different from that on the Cork/Limerick route.

Finger out time.

If you had read previous threads, you would have gathered by now that neither Limerick City and County Council or Cork County Council are responsible for the development of the N20, which is under the remit of TII.

boardsuser1

https://twitter.com/gardatraffic/status/907284111047512064

JCX BXC

Isambard wrote: »

blood on his hands

I'm sorry hit I never liked this term. You cannot contribute the deaths (a very serious incident) because a road is of moderate standard. It's very distasteful imo.

Not to cause blame, but this was nothing to do with the road being of poor standard anyway, looks like a very unfortunate mistake by the driver.

The M20 is vital, but using every death as political leverage when it's clear that the road isn't really at fault is very poor.

Not attacking you whatsoever Isambard, just don't like the terminology I general.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sorry hit I never liked this term. You cannot contribute the deaths (a very serious incident) because a road is of moderate standard. It's very distasteful imo.

Not to cause blame, but this was nothing to do with the road being of poor standard anyway, looks like a very unfortunate mistake by the driver.

The M20 is vital, but using every death as political leverage when it's clear that the road isn't really at fault is very poor.

Not attacking you whatsoever Isambard, just don't like the terminology I general.

This road, which is holding back the whole region, and has significant safety issues; is not being upgraded because the last Taoiseach claimed Cork people were being greedy and expected more than 1 of the 7 national roads entering the city to be to a decent standard.

"We can't afford the M20 costing €800m." Funny how €800m of upgrades centered around Mayo - no problem (M17/M18, N5 Ballaghaderreen, N5 Longford, N5 Westport-Turlough, N5 Ballaghaderreen-Strokestown).

JCX BXC

I'd agree fully and the road should be a priority Marno, however this case shouldn't be used as political leverage just because it occured on the road.

grogi

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'd agree fully and the road should be a priority Marno, however this case shouldn't be used as political leverage just because it occured on the road.

It is in bad taste and I think about families of the dead.

But politics is not about good taste, honour or good manners. It is about being effective. And if pressure from this incidents can achieve anything, press forward.

exaisle

Reputable Rog wrote: »

If you had read previous threads, you would have gathered by now that neither Limerick City and County Council or Cork County Council are responsible for the development of the N20, which is under the remit of TII.

TII was only established in August 2015. Prior to that, the NRA had responsibility for it and before that the various local authorities sat on their collective hands on the basis that "somebody else" would fund and build a motorway along the route. My point remains valid. This has been a sh1te road for decades due to the inactivity of the local authorities in the FIRST instance.

Reputable Rog

exaisle wrote: »

TII was only established in August 2015. Prior to that, the NRA had responsibility for it and before that the various local authorities sat on their collective hands on the basis that "somebody else" would fund and build a motorway along the route. My point remains valid. This has been a sh1te road for decades due to the inactivity of the local authorities in the FIRST instance.

TIi and the NRA are effectively the sane thing. There was only 2 motorways in this country until 2000 so I don't know how you can blame the Local Authorities.

exaisle

Reputable Rog wrote: »

TIi and the NRA are effectively the sane thing. There was only 2 motorways in this country until 2000 so I don't know how you can blame the Local Authorities.

I'm blaming the local authorities for not upgrading this road to at least decent single carriageway standard, or 2+1 in places at the very least and bypassing the several large towns it passes through, years ago....well before the NRA was ever thought of.

It's a national primary route which is, in places no better than a mediocre regional road because of the inaction of the relevant local authorities.
The point I'm making is that this is not a recent issue....it goes back over many decades.

D Trent

Kevwoody wrote: »

Accident black spot signs were phased out years ago, I can't think of a single one anywhere, not on any national roads anyway.

Yeah ''twas deemed a racial slur
Some of Them were replaced with these signs

marno21

exaisle wrote: »

I'm blaming the local authorities for not upgrading this road to at least decent single carriageway standard, or 2+1 in places at the very least and bypassing the several large towns it passes through, years ago....well before the NRA was ever thought of.

It's a national primary route which is, in places no better than a mediocre regional road because of the inaction of the relevant local authorities.
The point I'm making is that this is not a recent issue....it goes back over many decades.

Because Ireland had no money back then and Cork Councils had as little money. They did manage to build parts of the South Ring, Airport Hill, South Link, New Mallow Road (N20, seen as enough back then), decent road to Lissarda, N71 upgrade, dual carriageway Tivoli-Midleton, Glanmire bypass, N8 widening, widening between Buttevant-Charleville, etc. Look at the general scope of road building back then, sure the M50 only first opened in 1990 and required private funding

feargale

JCX BXC wrote: »

Not to cause blame, but this was nothing to do with the road being of poor standard anyway, looks like a very unfortunate mistake by the driver.

The M20 is vital, but using every death as political leverage when it's clear that the road isn't really at fault is very poor.

The standard of the road may not have been the cause of the accident, but would it have happened on the M20?

Three facts stand out:
1. The N20 ( or B1 ) connects the second and third cities of the state, having a combined population, depending on how you count, of 250,000 to 500,000.
2. There are better roads connecting most towns with a population of 5000 or so.
3. The relevant county councils, when they were in a position to do something, ( Cork in particular ) chose to leave this road pretty much as it was when the cows initially carved a track through the fields.

smurgen wrote: »

road upgrade should be an absolute priority at this stage

Feck that. They've done that between Cork and Mallow. They've put a fence in the middle of the road. :rolleyes: They will be shamed into doing it properly (i.e. M 20) when a few more have been killed, and may the devil thank them for it then.

Mc Love

Just toll it and be done with it! I'd happily pay if saves me ever having to drive through buttevant ever again

Water John

On a motorway it would just be under a hours drive. Really opens possibilities with that link.

Calina

National routes are not the business of the councils and haven't been since the NRA was founded afaik. As such, trashing the councils for not upgrading it, particularly when they also had to try and get funds out central government for it is a bit unfair. I'm also deeply cynical that roads around Mayo got upgraded at times when we were told to deal with the fact we were poor. Nothing against Mayo per se, but if we had to tighten our belts, then we should have all tightened our belts, including the Taoiseach's constituency at the time.

In the meantime, it annoys me that we have to start this process from absolute scratch once again because this means it will be years before anything is actually done and in the meantime, there will be people spiking up to say why don't we just do it on the cheap and spur off the M8 instead, hey.

boardsuser1

I tweeted this to Neil Prendeville earlier, will it become a reality I wonder? That junction needs to change.

https://twitter.com/corktruckdriver/status/907565071995416577

Reputable Rog

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I tweeted this to Neil Prendeville earlier, will it become a reality I wonder? That junction needs to change.

https://twitter.com/corktruckdriver/status/907565071995416577

Sometimes it can be handy to turn off, particularly if the traffic is heavy on the N20.
Ridiculously slow this morning, at a complete standstill after Burnfort. I was wondering what was holding it up and finally discovered in Blarney along ****** hill.
I'm so used to driving the road that I now recognise the perpetually slow drivers holding up the show, one particular lady in a Red Toyota was the culprit this morning and has been many mornings, stuck in a straight line doing 60kph the whole way.

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Sometimes it can be handy to turn off, particularly if the traffic is heavy on the N20.
Ridiculously slow this morning, at a complete standstill after Burnfort. I was wondering what was holding it up and finally discovered in Blarney along ****** hill.
I'm so used to driving the road that I now recognise the perpetually slow drivers holding up the show, one particular lady in a Red Toyota was the culprit this morning and has been many mornings, stuck in a straight line doing 60kph the whole way.

I know The Toyota in question, I've come across her on a number of occasions.

The other potential solution, advice welcome, is an over pass like they built on the lower Glanmire road coming in from Tivoli?

That is a road I hate travelling, even though I live nearby I don't go out that way unless I actually have to, I only turned off left at that junction on Sunday evening having passed a hidden speed trap st the Blarney exit.

marno21

There is a grade separated junction for Blarney and Blarney Business Park. Quite a few side roads could be closed and a few right turns eliminated. Sure it would make it a longer trip for residents along the road but at least they're not getting killed.

Five people dead on the roads yesterday making right turns into/out of local roads connecting towns where a grade separated junction exists a few km away.

Food for thought

Water John

Agreed, it's the right turns eliminated on the upgrade that lowers the number of accidents, more than any other single factor.

JamesBond2010

Sorry to interupt but was a rent a car full of americans.so u dont know who's fault it was. deal with them every day. Some of them cant drive for peanuts. & get confused with road signs & roundabouts & sides of the road you drive on.

sooner this motorway gets built the better.

marno21

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

Sorry to interupt but was a rent a car full of americans.so u dont know who's fault it was. deal with them every day. Some of them cant drive for peanuts. & get confused with road signs & roundabouts & sides of the road you drive on.

sooner this motorway gets built the better.

Both accidents yesterday involved cars making right turns across 100km/h+ (speed limits are rarely adhered to along both the N20 and N17 in question) stretches of road and resulted in direct impacts.

No need for driver profiling when you see the same accident happening twice in one day under similar circumstances.

Isambard

the Waterloo junction is a bad one, several bad accidents there. Is it the sightlines I wonder?

I had a guy pull out across the junction right under my bonnet and I only missed him by pulling right across the road almost on to the grass , thankfully the road was clear.