Off Topic Thread 3.0

George Hook wrote:

"But is there no blame now to the person who puts themselves in danger"

The word blame is very very poorly used.
His argument regarding personal responsibility concerning preventative measures (I'm sure the majority of parents impart these to their daughters etc) is understandable, but apportioning 'blame' is not right. It's crass and insensitive.

Should he be reprimanded? Sure. Ditched? I don't know about that. He can ditched just as easily if people decide to not listen.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

George Hook wrote:

"But is there no blame now to the person who puts themselves in danger"

The word blame is very very poorly used.
His argument regarding personal responsibility concerning preventative measures (I'm sure the majority of parents impart these to their daughters etc) is understandable, but apportioning 'blame' is not right. It's crass and insensitive.

Should he be reprimanded? Sure. Ditched? I don't know about that. He can ditched just as easily if people decide to not listen.

People can be perceived to have put themselves "in danger" in any number of ways though. I was out in town with a bunch of lads and moving from one pub to another when 3 guys jumped us. Those lads were after a row with a bunch of guys. So were we putting ourselves in a dangerous situation by being out late at night in a group that dickheads like that want to target?

Last week I went over on my ankle badly in town late in the evening. I went into shock and was out of it for about 15 mins. If I wasn't with several people I'd have been a prime target for having my wallet robbed. Would I have been partly at fault for the theft by not watching where I was going properly?

Things like drinking to excess are an issue. But they are an entirely different issue to things like rape. Drinking to the point of passing out, in terms of any subsequent sexual assault, is not really any different to passing out from anything else. A pregnant woman can be prone to serious light headedness at times and in the wrong conditions that could lead to passing out. Do they have a responsibility to prevent that happening in case they get assaulted?

The simple fact is, regardless of what condition the victim is in, an assailant has to make a conscious decision to assault a person. People shouldn't have to live their lives factoring in serious sexual assault. "I can't go out wearing that top because I might get raped", "I can't let my hair down the way the boys do because I might get raped", "I can't kiss this guy I've just met because he might rape me". In what world is that sort of thinking acceptable!?

molloyjh wrote: »

Last week I went over on my ankle

molloyjh wrote: »

I went into shock

CatFromHue

molloyjh wrote: »

Things like drinking to excess are an issue. But they are an entirely different issue to things like rape. Drinking to the point of passing out, in terms of any subsequent sexual assault, is not really any different to passing out from anything else. A pregnant woman can be prone to serious light headedness at times and in the wrong conditions that could lead to passing out. Do they have a responsibility to prevent that happening in case they get assaulted?

The simple fact is, regardless of what condition the victim is in, an assailant has to make a conscious decision to assault a person. People shouldn't have to live their lives factoring in serious sexual assault. "I can't go out wearing that top because I might get raped", "I can't let my hair down the way the boys do because I might get raped", "I can't kiss this guy I've just met because he might rape me". In what world is that sort of thinking acceptable!?

This reminds me of a bit of discussion on Brendan O'Connor's The Cutting Edge show. They were talking about going out and getting drunk and one of the guests was saying the always remind and warn their kids about the dangers of this. Then a bit later they were talking about consent and rape and the same guest got really annoyed when someone said girls should be warned about the danger of alcohol and the possibility of rape.

Unfortunately people exist that will make a conscious decision to assault a person so does warning people about the existence of these people equate to a form of victim blaming?

Or how much blame are people talking about when they say that mightn't have been a good idea what you did, i.e. getting smashed off your head and going back to a strangers place? 100% no way, 50% no way, 1% possibly.

Then there's also the case where everyone is drunk so no one really knows for sure what happened.

He wasn't warning people about the existence of these people.

Lets not try to twist what he said in some attempt to let him off the... blame.

Neil3030

CatFromHue wrote: »

This reminds me of a bit of discussion on Brendan O'Connor's The Cutting Edge show. They were talking about going out and getting drunk and one of the guests was saying the always remind and warn their kids about the dangers of this. Then a bit later they were talking about consent and rape and the same guest got really annoyed when someone said girls should be warned about the danger of alcohol and the possibility of rape.

Unfortunately people exist that will make a conscious decision to assault a person so does warning people about the existence of these people equate to a form of victim blaming?

Or how much blame are people talking about when they say that mightn't have been a good idea what you did, i.e. getting smashed off your head and going back to a strangers place? 100% no way, 50% no way, 1% possibly.

Then there's also the case where everyone is drunk so no one really knows for sure what happened.

You can warn people to make careful decisions, but I'd leave the word 'blame' out of it, because ultimately the crime is (as you say) committed by the conscious decision of another person.

I could cycle a unicycle, blindfolded, drunk, in a straight-jacket, near the edge of a railway platform - if you push me in front of a train, it's murder, and while you might advise people about repeating my behaviour, nobody would argue that I was to 'blame' for my death.

If ye want in for an NFL fantasy league for next week, can you drop me a PM with your email? Let's get an idea of numbers.

thomond2006 wrote: »

If ye want in for an NFL fantasy league for next week, can you drop me a PM with your email? Let's get an idea of numbers.

I just got one PM. Any other takers?

I'm up for it. But I'm terrible at staying with it once the Bucs get smashed and lose 12 games.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm up for it. But I'm terrible at staying with it once the Bucs get smashed and lose 12 games.

The Bucs should be better this year. They have a great receiver core.

Drop me a PM with your email and I'll try to get it setup asap. The draft will have to be Wednesday at the latest I suppose.

Up to 4 players.

Keep them coming!

1 player and 3 pieces of bait that will be swallowed up on his way to glory, like so many marshmallows

Any other takers?
I have 5 right now. I posted on the AF forum too, hopefully that will boost numbers.

stephen_n

If it had been the guy who was raped after having consensual sex with the girl, none of this conversation about personal responsibility, looking out for yourself or choices would even be considered. His comments were victim blaming pure and simple.

Erik Shin

Jesus Christ...I was reading about fantasy football from IBF and thomond looking for joiners to his league...and then the rape post showed up....what kinda league is thomond running?!!

stephen_n

Erik Shin wrote: »

Jesus Christ...I was reading about fantasy football from IBF and thomond looking for joiners to his league...and then the rape post showed up....what kinda league is thomond running?!!

a high stakes one

Erik Shin

stephen_n wrote: »

a high stakes one

I'm out...I'm not a fan of that kinda flag on my play

Erik Shin wrote: »

Jesus Christ...I was reading about fantasy football from IBF and thomond looking for joiners to his league...and then the rape post showed up....what kinda league is thomond running?!!

Why would you even join a fantasy league with people you've only met online? You have has no idea of their condition, you have no idea who they really are, no idea what dangers they might pose.

But is there no blame now when you put yourself in danger? Is there no blame here if you end up becoming an NRL fan?

So you in Venjur?

Erik Shin

thomond2006 wrote: »

So you in Venjur?

If you bring the Vaseline!!

thomond2006 wrote: »

So you in Venjur?

Or anyone else?

House market is crazy again.

People queuing this morning for the Clay Farm development in Leopardstown. The developers haven't even published floor plans or site plans and there has been no show houses, yet people are still queuing up to buy them. And on top of that the houses are seriously fugly.

awec wrote: »

House market is crazy again.

People queuing this morning for the Clay Farm development in Leopardstown. The developers haven't even published floor plans or site plans and there has been no show houses, yet people are still queuing up to buy them. And on top of that the houses are seriously fugly.

That build has gone up in record time, only started early Summer. Passed it this morning and 8 people outside. They aren't going on sale until Saturday. There was a lady there with her kid. Madness.

It's a great area mind you.

thomond2006 wrote: »

So you in Venjur?

I don't even know what the 'in' is for. I skip over the NFL posts as I've no interest in anything NFL related outside of Jerry McGuire...

It's a major problem alright. Government seems totally incapable of doing anything about it, again.

Deleted User wrote: »

That build has gone up in record time, only started early Summer. Passed it this morning and 8 people outside. They aren't going on sale until Saturday. There was a lady there with her kid. Madness.

It's a great area mind you.

It's an ok area. The big plus is the Luas, but you are also right beside an ESB station and a dump and there is pretty much nothing to do in the immediate vicinity.

Apparently people who queued today were given tickets to come back on Thursday. There's a private viewing thursday before public release at the weekend.

The houses have gone up very fast but they look awful IMO. Very cheap appearance and seriously packed in. The three story ones by the road are an eyesore, they look more like apartment blocks than houses.

Prices:

4 beds: €585k end of terrace, €570k mid terrace - 158sqm
3 beds: €500k end of terrace 109sq m

Half a million for a small 3 bed terrace house. :eek:

We are in the market right now but I am have been seriously considering pulling the plug on it for now. Prices have to come down eventually.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's a major problem alright. Government seems totally incapable of doing anything about it, again.

Are governments capable of doing anything about it though?

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are governments capable of doing anything about it though?

Build a lot more social housing rather than relying on the private sector to do their job for them.

awec wrote: »

It's an ok area. The big plus is the Luas, but you are also right beside an ESB station and a dump and there is pretty much nothing to do in the immediate vicinity.

Apparently people who queued today were given tickets to come back on Thursday. There's a private viewing thursday before public release at the weekend.

The houses have gone up very fast but they look awful IMO. Very cheap appearance and seriously packed in. The three story ones by the road are an eyesore, they look more like apartment blocks than houses.

Prices:

4 beds: €585k end of terrace, €570k mid terrace - 158sqm
3 beds: €500k end of terrace 109sq m

Half a million for a small 3 bed terrace house. :eek:

We are in the market right now but I am have been seriously considering pulling the plug on it for now. Prices have to come down eventually.

The prices are mad. I bought in the Gallops for a decent bit less than that not that long ago.

The area is actually lovely, there are playgrounds in the gallops and football pitches for kids. There are two schools in the area and one is a Gaelscoil.

It's a short hop to Cabinteely park and it's not far at all to Marley park. There is a total lack of pubs and the Gallops pub is a horse racing / darts pub and a complete dive. There are trails nearby at Kilternan and you are 5 minutes from the Dublin Mountains.

The dump is actually a recycling centre so no smell or problems. It's handy to be honest for getting rid of stuff. The ESB substation is apparently getting downsized but not sure what the story is there. It's an eyesore for sure.

Have to say though, I love the area and would have no complaints.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are governments capable of doing anything about it though?

Give builders more lending power and the land becomes more expensive. Give homeowners more buying power and the homes become more expensive.

This development though has all the hallmarks of boom time madness. The properties are over priced. There is no negotiation on price. They've gone up in record time. There are queues a week in advance. The target buyer for this sort of property are in an age range and personal circumstance that will likely mean an uncomfortably high mortgage. The banks are taking on more risk lending to these sorts of people but will still try and create incentives so as to get the business.

If you took 100k off the prices awec posted I'd say fair enough. They will sell at the higher prices but it's really not reasonable.