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Isn't multiculturalism great...

[Deleted User]

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

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JaCrispy

Deleted User wrote: »

They weren't really attacks on white Catholic Irish society by Slovakians, were they? And my OP referred to my childhood, when we were acutely aware of terrorism because it was happening here, regularly, albeit at the other end of the island.

I was referring specifically to the quoted comment.

[Deleted User]

JaCrispy wrote: »

I was referring specifically to the quoted comment.

But it was a bit of a non sequitor. Do you think the Irish going to other countries is a really bad thing for the natives because of the Guildford and Birmingham pub bombings? So no one can possibly say that the Irish influence was beneficial?

BillyBobBS

Deleted User wrote: »

Um. While I'm a bit flattered that you've put so much effort into an analysis of me, I should point out that there are a few big flaws. You seem to suggest that my issue was with white Irish Catholics. When, as I assume most will understand - but I'm happy to spell it out too - the issue was with the fact that the society I grew up in was exclusively so. And it's not as if I was saying it was awful. Far from it, I had a great childhood amongst white Irish Catholics. But I think my daughter will have an even better one, because people from other backgrounds and religions have migrated here.

The religion of Islam brings nothing positive to you or your daughter's. We need to control it.

hatrickpatrick

I'm in favour of multiculturalism up to a point, but I draw the line at social values. As far as I'm concerned, if you're attitudes to personal freedom aren't compatible with ours, you should be required to assimilate or get out - that is to say, if you want to raise your daughter to believe that she must cover her face in public or go to hell or whatever, you sure as f*ck shouldn't be allowed to do that in our country. I apply this to Catholicism as well though - anybody raising their kids to believe that contraception, masturbation or any other personal choice on the church's "no no" list is evil and wrong should in my view be guilty of psychological child abuse and neglect. And I fully believe that RSE in schools should be compulsory with no option for parents to have their children barred from attending.

Cultures which restrict womens' rights or peoples' personal freedom should not be allowed to raise their kids to be subservient to that culture in Ireland, simple as that. I've seen first hand how much pain and harm is caused by the imparting of cultural taboos and authoritarianism, and it's heartbreaking.

Cocobongo

The Highwayman wrote: »

You showed nothing positive about diversity at all here. You met some people shocker. Big deal, in fact all I understood is some people are in this country who should not be and they have taken Irish people's jobs.

You must be doing something wrong if somebody with English not being their first language, having to go through all the fuss to settle in here can take your job..

pajo1981

Keep numbers of Muslims to an absolute minimum.

[Deleted User]

BillyBobBS wrote:

The religion of Islam brings nothing positive to you or your daughter's. We need to control it.

How would you control a religion?
The Romans persecuted Christians and yet Rome is the home to the Vatican. We've had several inquisitions and crusades. None of this had much effect on religion.

pajo1981

Sleeper12 wrote: »

How would you control a religion?
The Romans persecuted Christians and yet Rome is the home to the Vatican. We've had several inquisitions and crusades. None of this had much effect on religion.

Keep the numbers coming in to an absolute minimum. Watch ones already here like a hawk.

[Deleted User]

pajo1981 wrote:

Keep the numbers coming in to an absolute minimum. Watch ones already here like a hawk.

So someone puts down on a form that they are RC and not Muslim gets into the country?

I'm pretty certain that history has thought us that you can't control religion. Start treating Muslims differently or badly and you will encourage more to radicalize

[Deleted User]

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm in favour of multiculturalism up to a point, but I draw the line at social values. As far as I'm concerned, if you're attitudes to personal freedom aren't compatible with ours, you should be required to assimilate or get out - that is to say, if you want to raise your daughter to believe that she must cover her face in public or go to hell or whatever, you sure as f*ck shouldn't be allowed to do that in our country.

The Slovakian friends had a pregnancy a few years ago and they were told in CUH that the child would have huge problems, the anomaly scan was not good. So they went back to Slovakia to terminate the pregnancy. As a matter of curiosity, do you think they should have been forced to have the child because it's part of our social values?

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

The Slovakian friends had a pregnancy a few years ago and they were told in CUH that the child would have huge problems, the anomaly scan was not good. So they went back to Slovakia to terminate the pregnancy. As a matter of curiosity, do you think they should have been forced to have the child because it's part of our social values?

I don't believe a word you say.

bananabread12

Deleted User wrote: »

The Slovakian friends had a pregnancy a few years ago and they were told in CUH that the child would have huge problems, the anomaly scan was not good. So they went back to Slovakia to terminate the pregnancy. As a matter of curiosity, do you think they should have been forced to have the child because it's part of our social values?

Abortion should be readily available in Ireland. A 10 minute stroll around Finglas is the greatest argument in favour of it.

[Deleted User]

bananabread12 wrote:

Abortion should be readily available in Ireland. A 10 minute stroll around Finglas is the greatest argument in favour of it.

That's harsh.

It's also a mighty big assumption that any of these would have been terminated even with free on demand abortion.

I'm not against abortion but jees I wouldn't want to bring it in for what you are suggesting.

[Deleted User]

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I don't believe a word you say.

But sure you have the choice of not engaging in this topic at all then. Why do you engage in a topic when you don't believe the premise?

Anyway, it's true. However I fully appreciate that the whole "immigrants coming from a more liberal society" thing will be too awkward to address for some. Far easier when they come from some medieval backwater so you could sneer at them.

_Kaiser_

So I read 6 pages of this (40 posts per page) and the only conclusion I can draw is the OP set out to start another debate on the benefits of immigration so they can smugly say "look at me with all my foreign friends" (AKA virtue signalling for the like-minded), while then attacking anyone not congratulating him for his "enlightenment".

You had a good day out with your daughter. As it happens so did I with my son. Good stuff. The difference is I don't even remember noticing the ethnic background of everyone we encountered/dealt with today, and I certainly didn't feel the need to start a thread for thanks :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Conor you said your daughter will grow up in a better climate than you did as she'll be exposed to more customs and religions. Which religions, if any, are gonna benefit her at all?

[Deleted User]

_Kaiser_ wrote:

So I read 6 pages of this (40 posts per page) and the only conclusion I can draw is the OP set out to start another debate on the benefits of immigration so they can smugly say "look at me with all my foreign friends" (AKA virtue signalling for the like-minded), while then attacking anyone not congratulating him for their "enlightenment".

I thought it started out well last night. It was friendly and civil.

One eyed Jack

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm in favour of multiculturalism up to a point, but I draw the line at social values. As far as I'm concerned, if you're attitudes to personal freedom aren't compatible with ours, you should be required to assimilate or get out - that is to say, if you want to raise your daughter to believe that she must cover her face in public or go to hell or whatever, you sure as f*ck shouldn't be allowed to do that in our country.

Wouldn't that mean that by your own standards, you should have been told to get out 20 years ago?

I apply this to Catholicism as well though - anybody raising their kids to believe that contraception, masturbation or any other personal choice on the church's "no no" list is evil and wrong should in my view be guilty of psychological child abuse and neglect.

That's not even compatible with your own view of peoples personal freedoms, let alone your perception of what you call "our country".

And I fully believe that RSE in schools should be compulsory with no option for parents to have their children barred from attending.

Y'know that bit about personal freedoms in "our country"? You're starting to sound like you want a dictatorship, inserting yourself at the helm, and erasing any cultural values which are incompatible with your own. I wonder where I've seen that before...

Cultures which restrict womens' rights or peoples' personal freedom should not be allowed to raise their kids to be subservient to that culture in Ireland, simple as that. I've seen first hand how much pain and harm is caused by the imparting of cultural taboos and authoritarianism, and it's heartbreaking.

Substitute one form of authoritarianism for another then is your solution? It doesn't sound like you actually do care for peoples personal freedoms and cultural values which existed in this country before your arse was as big as a shirt button.

WinnyThePoo

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I don't believe a word you say.

That's fantastic. Go you!

youreadthat

That's not multiculturalism, everyone in this tale are doing things normal and everyday to Irish life. 3/10 attempt at impersonating a Guardian reader.

[Deleted User]

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So I read 6 pages of this (40 posts per page) and the only conclusion I can draw is the OP set out to start another debate on the benefits of immigration...

Are they common here?

Have to say, all I seem to see are threads about the problems of immigration. But it could be confirmation bias. How many debates on the benefits of immigration have you seen here in, say, the last month? Roughly.

Sweetemotion

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

That's fantastic. Go you!

Just see bull crap when I see it.

[Deleted User]

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Just see bull crap when I see it.

But why do you keep engaging in a thread when you insist it's fiction?

Anyway, check it out. If Slovakia has more liberal abortion laws than we have, you have to concede...it makes your insistence that it's all made up look...weaker. Unless I planned it all out yesterday, meeting Slovakians, conscious of their abortion laws...just to get to you...:)

Benjamin Buttons

bananabread12 wrote: »

Abortion should be readily available in Ireland. A 10 minute stroll around Finglas is the greatest argument in favour of it.

Where are you from yourself?

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

But why do you keep engaging in a thread when you insist it's fiction?

Anyway, check it out. If Slovakia has more liberal abortion laws than we have, you have to concede...it makes your insistence that it's all made up look...weaker. Unless I planned it all out yesterday, meeting Slovakians, conscious of their abortion laws...just to get to you...:)

That's exactly what I think and I'm sure many others do also.

Sweetemotion

Who in their right mind has a great day spending quality time with their daughter on a Saturday say, it was because of multiculturalism?

[Deleted User]

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That's exactly what I think and I'm sure many others do also.

Oh the old "me and the entire internet" argument!

Ha ha! My first post got over 50 likes from people who recognise it for what it was. A very simple "had a good day with people from other countries".

How many have supported your "this is completely made up, it's utterly impossible" theory?

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh the old "me and the entire internet" argument!

Ha ha! My first post got over 50 likes from people who recognise it for what it was. A very simple "had a good day with people from other countries".

How many have supported your "this is completely made up, it's utterly impossible" theory?

50 likes, sure aren't you just great.

Wailin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh the old "me and the entire internet" argument!

Ha ha! My first post got over 50 likes from people who recognise it for what it was. A very simple "had a good day with people from other countries".

How many have supported your "this is completely made up, it's utterly impossible" theory?

Over 50 likes eh? So that's what it all comes down to? Social approval on the internet. You are a sad sad individual op!

AlekSmart

Deleted User wrote: »

Um. While I'm a bit flattered that you've put so much effort into an analysis of me, I should point out that there are a few big flaws. You seem to suggest that my issue was with white Irish Catholics. When, as I assume most will understand - but I'm happy to spell it out too - the issue was with the fact that the society I grew up in was exclusively so. And it's not as if I was saying it was awful. Far from it, I had a great childhood amongst white Irish Catholics. But I think my daughter will have an even better one, because people from other backgrounds and religions have migrated here.

Ah g'wan with ya,sure there is'nt really much to analyze is there ?

The society you grew up in being exclusively White,Irish and Catholic,is,even for South Kerry in the 1970's,a bit of a stretch to accept....I suppose the census could confirm at least a few oul Protestants,an occasional Jew and who knows,even a Muslim or two ?

You did,after all,go to some lengths to dress your stage in the OP,and in a very specific manner,which prompts the questions from other contributors as to why on earth you would need to,unless it revolves around some inner need to convert unbelievers or somesuch ?

It's somewhat revisionist to now suggest that you had a GREAT childhood amongst the White Irish Catholics,who's ethos you mentioned so specifically in your OP.

We all wish & hope for our children to have better futures,although,the current generation of teenagers,run the risk of being the first in a very long time,to quite possibly end up worse off than their parents (in fiscal terms).

Hopefully your little daughter will enjoy the same happy childhood,you belatedly now acknowledge having,however I doubt very much that a contrived influx of other cultures,religions and beliefs will actually play much part in that enjoyment.

The issue of just how modern Parental attitudes influence Childrens progress in broader modern Society is indeed a fascinating one,but for sure,best considered in a different forum than this