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Eir rural FTTH thread

rob808

I made this thread for people on eir rural blue line FTTH please keep here and don't post in Eircom FTTH 66 towns 1 Gb thread about rural FTTH rollout.

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Johnboy1951

I wonder where do these plans fit into the scheme of things as described above

https://business.eir.ie/super-fast-fibre/

or maybe a 10Gb/s symmetric connection

https://business.eir.ie/product/next-generation-connectivity/#tab-3

frozenfrozen

That says the normal BB T&C's apply. If it's not unlimited I'm actually going to fucking bill Eir for wasting my time

KeRbDoG

frozenfrozen wrote: »

This is for the 1000mb service yes, it's called "Business Advantage Boost - 1GB" I wish it was a "1GB" connection, haha. But that is how they have it written, this is the one that is 1gb / 1000mb download, and I'm assuming 100mb upload but I actually don't know yet.

Its this package right? 1000/100 it seems

...now, do you have to be a business to order a business package?

MajesticDonkey

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That says the normal BB T&C's apply. If it's not unlimited I'm actually going to fucking bill Eir for wasting my time

Can confirm it is unlimited - no FUP (at least their regular business efibre packages are)

frozenfrozen

it would be cheaper to go with a residential package unless you were sure for the next 24 months you were going to be over 1TB of usage every single month

and I have no idea what the requirements are for getting a business package, probably easy if you are vat registered and your address is actually a business..

Ours isn't 75 per month I don't think; it's arond 110 per month unless it's 75 exvat and for some reason on the sheet they've sent is listing with vat prices.. because 90/1.23 = ~75... and the other money would be made up by phone minutes etc..

I'll just ring the guy we dealt with on Monday, it was him and the regional manager for eir biz retail who came to sort out the other mess and I said it no less than 10 times about making sure there was no fair usage policy of any kind at all whatsoever and they both reassured me... several times..

frozenfrozen

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Can confirm it is unlimited - no FUP (at least their regular business efibre packages are)

I hope that's true too for the fibre packages, thanks.

westyIrl

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That says the normal BB T&C's apply. If it's not unlimited I'm actually going to fucking bill Eir for wasting my time

The link for the Standard Broadband T&Cs on this page will bring you to an Italian cookie policy page when you want to access their Acceptable Usage Policy, so maybe no harm to be aware that you can't access any FUP on the FTTB website.

It would make a joke of their business packages if they put a FUP of 1TB in place (although I can see how this can be restrictive for residential connections also). I'm pushing 200GB/Month on my current 1.7Mb DSL line which still has a 30GB cap from years ago but Eir don't seem bothered to enforce (lucky me), but I am paying €60 ex. VAT for the privelege.

I'm wondering if you may be paying something extra for the 8Hr SLA? Please don't tell me we have to pay line rental on the fiber????

Be a good idea to read over the contract and see where the extra charge is. (for our curiousity also

)

frozenfrozen

I'm up the walls at the moment so will have to comb through that 'contract' but essentially it's a basic sheet with different sections BB, phone, mobile with whatever details we went with in each one and signed by us, they took a picture of it and we kept the actual sheet. there's no FUP details on it AFAIK.

It's probably fraud if they looked me in the eye while saying the spiel about no limit 5,000 employees connection while the pen was making its way towards the page to sign it.. if it turns out there is a FUP

Have to get the connection installed first of all.. maybe they'll read this and go take the lines back that they put in on our road...

iioklo

digiman wrote: »

It's most likely bad splicing, PON transceiver transmits at +3dBm, from my experience they have an extremely low failure rate and they should have been tested when they were installed also and I've not seen any fail after install yet either.

It does beg the questions is any testing done after the splicing is completed?

My area was completed in June, and in late August I seen a KNN man going to each pole and manhole splice box, with a portable device plugging into each box and checking the readings. So I think they are checking the preformance of the lines.

raydator

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That says the normal BB T&C's apply. If it's not unlimited I'm actually going to fucking bill Eir for wasting my time

I have spent many hours on the phone/emails and live chat.

I can confirm that FTTH irrespective of Home/Business package selected has a FUP of 1TB applied.

Live chat agents don't have a clue! Almost every one of them I contacted said no FUP for FTTH. Thats not true.

Please support the petition to change the FUP.

https://www.change.org/p/tracy-kennedy-eir-increase-remove-fair-usage-cap-on-eir-fibre-broadband-packages?recruiter=60375453&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=triggered

Also follow the following thread in relation to FUP and responses from Eir.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057783247&referrerid=756289

Also, I think the OP wants to keep this thread discussion related to the rollout of FTTH and not about the FUP, so no harm to jump over the other thread.

ED E

digiman wrote: »

It's most likely bad splicing, PON transceiver transmits at +3dBm, from my experience they have an extremely low failure rate and they should have been tested when they were installed also and I've not seen any fail after install yet either.

It does beg the questions is any testing done after the splicing is completed?

Another question of who I suppose. OEs older lads that operate the splicing table vans are pros, eyes closed kinda stuff. With the volume of work with the rural fibre routes they could only manage a small portion of jobs.

The tech that reported it may be working in a particular area that's had an idiot at work, if its nationally that poor they'd be scrambling to rectify it.

Gonzo

raydator wrote: »

I have spent many hours on the phone/emails and live chat.

I can confirm that FTTH irrespective of Home/Business package selected has a FUP of 1TB applied.

Live chat agents don't have a clue! Almost every one of them I contacted said no FUP for FTTH. Thats not true.

Please support the petition to change the FUP.

https://www.change.org/p/tracy-kennedy-eir-increase-remove-fair-usage-cap-on-eir-fibre-broadband-packages?recruiter=60375453&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=triggered

Also follow the following thread in relation to FUP and responses from Eir.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057783247&referrerid=756289

Also, I think the OP wants to keep this thread discussion related to the rollout of FTTH and not about the FUP, so no harm to jump over the other thread.

Unfortunately that petition isn't gonna change Eir's mind with only 43 signatures after several days, it needs 1000s of signatures for Eir to even notice.

raydator

Gonzo wrote: »

Unfortunately that petition isn't gonna change Eir's mind with only 43 signatures after several days, it needs 1000s of signatures for Eir to even notice.

Yes your right, so we must be a very small few who are affected by this cap.

So I guess we just need to bend over and take it up the ass, as that's the way the people of this country goes on. We complain but when it comes to taken action we shut up. Pitty.

westyIrl

Gonzo wrote: »

Unfortunately that petition isn't gonna change Eir's mind with only 43 signatures after several days, it needs 1000s of signatures for Eir to even notice.

Even though I signed, I would have to agree, unless somehow it can be shown that >1% subscribers are affected. It is a competition issue, there is none on FTTH and Eir knows how to milk it! Until the dust settles on the FTTH rollout and rates are set for wholesale access, there probably won't be any movement on this. The sooner the likes of Sky, Vodafone (non-SIRO) see a business case to provide FTTH access to their network, the better.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's probably fraud if they looked me in the eye while saying the spiel about no limit 5,000 employees connection while the pen was making its way towards the page to sign it.. if it turns out there is a FUP

My advice would be push the connection to >1.5TB and see what the reaction from Eir is. While I know Eir will milk this FUP issue until they have to change, I would be surprised if they go down this route of losing valuable business customers. They are not as dynamic changers as residential customers, and the revenue stream is certainly more consistent I would imagine. They also would probably have a higher usage of Eir cached data, and as such are a lower costing customer (admin and service wise) than their residential counterparts. If they do start billing, hit them with both barrels as regards how the reps dealt with you. You are well entitled to kick up a serious stink on this.

ED E wrote: »

They don't want a business package as it would kill off BIP subscriptions.

It must pain them how disruptive FTTH is going to be to the cashcow of these subscriptions. But they know the days for these rural BIPs (profit wise) are numbered. Funny how buried these business packages are on their website.

Jim

Gonzo

raydator wrote: »

Yes your right, so we must be a very small few who are affected by this cap.

So I guess we just need to bend over and take it up the ass, as that's the way the people of this country goes on. We complain but when it comes to taken action we shut up. Pitty.

I signed the petition first day as what's going on isn't fair. I'm just pointing out that it needs way more signatures for Eir to even notice.

A large part of the problem is many Eir customers have no idea what a cap is, they have no idea what a fair usage policy is and they think their connection is unlimited, many may not use boards or be aware of any problem untill they get hit by the excess charges.

RoYoBo

Gonzo wrote: »

I signed the petition first day as what's going on isn't fair. I'm just pointing out that it needs way more signatures for Eir to even notice.

A large part of the problem is many Eir customers have no idea what a cap is, they have no idea what a fair usage policy is and they think their connection is unlimited, many may not use boards or be aware of any problem untill they get hit by the excess charges.

^^^ This - it may be a while before the reality of the FUP becomes clear and not everyone uses Boards or knows about this thread.

Also, not a big enough number connected yet for word to spread - give it time. Unfortunately, of those connected, few, if any, have an alternative. We're fish in a barrel.

westyIrl

A question to distract from the FUP. I've seen Eir (well KN) technicians installing splice boxes in a townland near to me last week.

I'm curious, if a customer orders the 1Gbps service, does that mean that OE have to supply a dedicated direct fiber to the premises. (i.e. no upstream passive splitters?)

I know GPON has a max U/D rate of ~2.4Gbps/1.2Gbps and don't think I've heard of 2x splitters (8x, 32x, 64x yes). Just wondering if not taking a 1G connection at the beginning (and being on a splitter) could impede getting the 1Gbps service later if sufficient non-split fibers aren't available.

Or does the 1Gbps service work in some form of burst mode?

thanks

jim

oscarBravo

westyIrl wrote: »

A question to distract from the FUP. I've seen Eir (well KN) technicians installing splice boxes in a townland near to me last week.

I'm curious, if a customer orders the 1Gbps service, does that mean that OE have to supply a dedicated direct fiber to the premises. (i.e. no upstream passive splitters?)

The 1Gb/s service is delivered on the same hardware as all the others. If you genuinely need a guaranteed 1Gb/s - if, that is, you have an application that simply can't tolerate having to live with 900Mb/s occasionally - you're going to have to look for a different product, and expect to pay a lot more for it.

westyIrl

oscarBravo wrote: »

The 1Gb/s service is delivered on the same hardware as all the others. If you genuinely need a guaranteed 1Gb/s - if, that is, you have an application that simply can't tolerate having to live with 900Mb/s occasionally - you're going to have to look for a different product, and expect to pay a lot more for it.

I understand that the current 1Gbps is indeed an 'up to' figure even if it's a service that's lot closer to the headline figure than previous technologies could promise. It's more a curiosity about the network topology that Eir is currently rolling out and what type splitting would be used for customers on the 1Gbps plans?

Jim

tsue921i8wljb3

westyIrl wrote: »

I understand that the current 1Gbps is indeed an 'up to' figure even if it's a service that's lot closer to the headline figure than previous technologies could promise. It's more a curiosity about the network typology that Eir is currently rolling out and what type splitting would be used for customers on the 1Gbps plans?

Jim

As far as I know they would be on the same 1:32 split as everyone else. 9276 explained it in the Imagine thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104619370&postcount=5103

westyIrl

Thanks for the link Navi. That certainly makes sense from the research I have done into GPON.

I'm sure they (Eir) will probably go with more cascading of splitters as they go more rural on the rollout. Interesting that a customer on a 1Gbps plan could (theoretically) enjoy a lower throughput on a saturated OLT than a customer on a lower speed plan but on an under ultilised OLT/fiber trunk line. Assuming of course the splitters aren't used adjacent to the exchange which wouldn't make sense from a fiber network utilisation perspective (which I assume is the costly infrastructure for Eir and not the OLTs themselves).

The reason I'm interested is that I am 7km from our exchange (and close to the boundary to another exchange so am last on branch) and only have a handful of properties between us and the exchange we are on. i.e. uber-rural

Jim

ED E

There should be a soft cap in OpenEirs UG to prevent oversubscription of an individual optic. The NGA handbooks dont indicate there is one but thats not to say there isnt as its OEs side of the API.

Off the top of my head 10Gb/optic would be very fair, 20Gb would be pushing it.
31 x 150Mb: 4.65Gb
31 x 300Mb: 9.3Gb

So if you have 2x 1Gb subs on an optic then some of the remaining can only sign up to 150Mb. If all your neighbours install at 300 then an order for 1Gb will fail.

frozenfrozen

KNN installer called out to us again this morning, he said he actually wasn't going to even bother us by calling in as he rang hq or wherever and asked if the issue had been fixed and it hasn't, but anyway I saw the van pull up and I went out and spoke to him.

He said all it needs is for that the other end for the connector to be pulled out and cleaned but he still can't do that.

An open eir van went past before I went out and KNN man flagged him down and asked was he there to fix the issue for the install and in the KNN installers words "he just said 'nope' then carried on"

If all it takes is a quick wipe wouldn't you think the Open Eir guy would have sent someone a text to do it next time they're at that cabinet... because Open eir are the ones paying for another one of KNNs failed installs at our house... which I presume today counted as our second failed install

A call was made before all this to our biz rep, he got us to email about the reason for the Saturday failed install and on the call he also doubled down on there being no FUP. So in the email outlining the reason for the failed install I also included a thank you for confirming there is no FUP of any kind, so at least we will have that in writing.

KNN guys next install was our neighbours across the road, he just said 'well they're not getting connected either today FFS'

Gonzo

I was in southern Spain for past while and noticed that their FTTH there is very complete compared to here. All streets seemed to be covered. They use very similar black splice boxes as Open Eir and all these boxes are placed on sides of buildings/apartment blocks along with all the wiring, including electricity, phone/ADSL, cable and FTTH.

All looks incredibly messy and ugly running along buildings and up the sides of tower blocks as the built up areas did not have any poles for carrying wires and very little of it run underground.

westyIrl

ED E wrote: »

There should be a soft cap in OpenEirs UG to prevent oversubscription of an individual optic. The NGA handbooks dont indicate there is one but thats not to say there isnt as its OEs side of the API.

Off the top of my head 10Gb/optic would be very fair, 20Gb would be pushing it.
31 x 150Mb: 4.65Gb
31 x 300Mb: 9.3Gb

So if you have 2x 1Gb subs on an optic then some of the remaining can only sign up to 150Mb. If all your neighbours install at 300 then an order for 1Gb will fail.

That would make sense. However am I correct in thinking that GPON is limited to 2.4Gbps down per fiber trunk? I.e On a fully saturated fully loaded 32x splitter the max speed one could wish for is 75Mbps? (I know this is hypothetical and ignoring possible XGPON upgrades in future and priority of service shaping across plans by Eir).

Jim

frozenfrozen

unbelievable but since Eircom are involved it's believable. After all that today only after I mentioned in writing in the email thanking him for confirming there was no fair usage policy -- he rang up to inform us of a 1TB fair usage policy on the business packages.

Johnboy1951

frozenfrozen wrote: »

unbelievable but since Eircom are involved it's believable. After all that today only after I mentioned in writing in the email thanking him for confirming there was no fair usage policy -- he rang up to inform us of a 1TB fair usage policy on the business packages.

Yes it goes to show that everything needs to be in writing and agreed first.

Hardly a surprise though

frozenfrozen

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes it goes to show that everything needs to be in writing and agreed first.

Hardly a surprise though

it actually was a surprise since the regional manager for Eir business sales was there as well as our local rep who both swore up and down there was no such thing as a fair usage policy on the business packages

raydator

frozenfrozen wrote: »

unbelievable but since Eircom are involved it's believable. After all that today only after I mentioned in writing in the email thanking him for confirming there was no fair usage policy -- he rang up to inform us of a 1TB fair usage policy on the business packages.

There you go. 1TB on all FTTH packages including business.

So, if you had a small company of 10 - 15 employees, how long do you think it would be before you exceed the 1TB. NOT long at all.

It's a money racket.

westyIrl

frozenfrozen wrote: »

unbelievable but since Eircom are involved it's believable. After all that today only after I mentioned in writing in the email thanking him for confirming there was no fair usage policy -- he rang up to inform us of a 1TB fair usage policy on the business packages.

That's ridiculous. Someone (ASAI/COMREG) need to step in and cut out this mis selling.. but too toothless. Not alone is it mis selling but it makes the product not fit for purpose. 20 PCs drawing individually for Windows 10 creators update would suck up 80GB alone. Why call it and charge as a business grade plan?