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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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CeilingFly

marno21 wrote: »

The widened M7 will be 120km/h same as the M1 widened section.

Waste of time. The N7 approaching the Red Cow and the M50 are both car parks at peak times. Usage of the under utilised rail line beside the N7 will have to increase; because there's simply nowhere for this traffic to go

Not everyone works in Dublin.

I agree it will make no difference to inbound traffic from Johnstown to M50 - they don't claim this.

It will make a huge difference to the thousands of cars taking junction 10 & 11. It will also make it easy to spin off into Sallins for the train.

For the Dublin commuters the difference will be on the home journey with far better flow through jct 9-11 with knock on effect on flow prior to jct 9.

pad199207

The real winners from this upgrade will be Naas and Sallins residents. The new Junction at Kerry Group will take huge pressure of the town centres

L1011

pad199207 wrote: »

The real winners from this upgrade will be Naas and Sallins residents. The new Junction at Kerry Group will take huge pressure of the town centres

And anyone from the north of the county who has to suffer the indignity of doing business in Naas because the council pretends we don't exist (except to cash the - massive - rates and LPT contributions).

Driving to Naas for 9am during school term can take well over an hour from any of Maynooth/Celbridge/Leixlip/Kilcock

Middle Man

I really can't get over the big deal that Irish people make out of adding 2 lanes to a motorway - Ireland seriously needs its ass kicked. This is my idea of what a big motorway upgrade is...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=507829&page=4

However, if we got the DART Inter-connector and Metro North built, Ireland might be worthy of respect!

spacetweek

It's usually only Asia and the Middle East that undertake road upgrades at that level!

Middle Man

spacetweek wrote: »

It's usually only Asia and the Middle East that undertake road upgrades at that level!

I'm not saying that we should do likewise, but what I am saying is that Ireland is not exactly ambitious when it comes to infrastructure. If we want to be considered a modern country, we need to get on with the major rail projects (+ M20/N24/M4 road projects) and cut the 'Father Ted' style transport policy that we currently have.

_Kaiser_

marno21 wrote: »

The N7 approaching the Red Cow and the M50 are both car parks at peak times. Usage of the under utilised rail line beside the N7 will have to increase; because there's simply nowhere for this traffic to go

Rail fares are ridiculously expensive and not everyone works in An Lar, or will be giving up their car.

If you work in one of the business parks in Blanch, Sandyford, Cherrywood etc getting dumped out at Hueston only to then have to trek halfway out again (more cost) isn't much use.

As I've said before, build massive P&R interchanges at the M50 intersecting the N7 (and N4, N3) with shuttle bus/tram/whatever services between them parallel to the M50 and feeder services then at the endpoints to the above mentioned business parks for an all-included fare and you might be on to something.

I'll use the Cork P&R service as an example.. €5 return per car (not per passenger!), 15 minute frequency and direct into the city/where people need to go. Fantastic and should be expanded to Sundays - and places like Dublin - IMO (and I say this as someone who has given up on public transport for the most part because of the costs, time-wasted taking indirect routes etc).

CeilingFly

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Rail fares are ridiculously expensive and not everyone works in An Lar, or will be giving up their car.

Not from Sallins - that's now in short hop zone.

And if you think rail fares are expensive here - try the UK. Chelmsford to london annual ticket is almost £5,000!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

And no "Taxsaver" option there either.

_Kaiser_

CeilingFly wrote: »

Not from Sallins - that's now in short hop zone.

And if you think rail fares are expensive here - try the UK. Chelmsford to london annual ticket is almost £5,000!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

And no "Taxsaver" option there either.

Taking myself as an example.. I work in one of the aforementioned business parks but live futher south than Sallins.

I wouldn't be giving up the car, and paying for a train and bus/luas on top of it, to add maybe an extra 90 minutes each way to my day would make no sense whatsoever. Sure, if I worked in the city centre area maybe but as I said, there's thousands of people on the M7 everyday who don't either.

Instead I start/finish later and work from home 1/2 days a week which helps a lot. As I write this I haven't left yet but when I do it'll only take about an hour door to door.

Move closer then I hear you say.. Sure, except I pay less than half what I would need to cough up in rent for a similar place, and even though I'm a Dub myself, I've no reason to live there anymore except for work which, being IT, is still mainly centred around the capital.

But if there was a P&R service like I described at a price that was attractive I'd definitely consider it

_Kaiser_

Deedsie wrote: »

You moved away from close to the place to work to South of Sallins? You may be paying less than half in rent but look at what you have to put up with day to day. Madness

An hour on the motorway door-to-door? It used to take me longer than that to get from the City to say Blanch on a bus some days.

Besides, there's a lot more than just being close to the office. Sure, it'd be nice.. but it's not worth paying over double for the privilege - I used to live in the area, but rents around here (D18) for a 2 bed apartment are now €1600-1700 a month (excluding the obvious AirBnB lets @ €800 a week!!)

That's insanity.. even adding in diesel and a service/set of tyres every so often I'm still saving money AND I live in a similarly nice area as I did before.. it's quiet, settled, spacious.. and less than half price.

davidm20

Sallins By-Pass

Seem to have started a little work in the last week.

The area around Link 1 is been boarded off

sea12

Well after the lovely summer break we are back to the ****e again on this road. This morning was horrendous. The changes they made to the slip roads onto the m50 is really affecting it now. Think it's time for a pay cut and a new job down the country

Pablod

sea12 wrote: »

Well after the lovely summer break we are back to the ****e again on this road. This morning was horrendous. The changes they made to the slip roads onto the m50 is really affecting it now. Think it's time for a pay cut and a new job down the country

****e is an understatement.... and it was back to normal muck going home this evening at rush-hour, solid from JN7 kill.
I started working at home on Fridays which made things a bit easier, but then everyone else had the same idea so Thursday evenings are the new Fridays and are just as bad..

[Deleted User]

sea12 wrote: »

Well after the lovely summer break we are back to the ****e again on this road. This morning was horrendous. The changes they made to the slip roads onto the m50 is really affecting it now. Think it's time for a pay cut and a new job down the country

I did that, and the reduction in commuting costs took a lot of the pain out of the pay cut.
plus getting several hours back each week.

_Kaiser_

Pablod wrote: »

****e is an understatement.... and it was back to normal muck going home this evening at rush-hour, solid from JN7 kill.
I started working at home on Fridays which made things a bit easier, but then everyone else had the same idea so Thursday evenings are the new Fridays and are just as bad..

Yea I work from home 1/2 days a week, and I'm lucky that I can start/finish later so by the time I leave the house/office, the worst of it has died off. I still think it's ridiculous that the main artery south is ONE road.
The N81 should be upgraded to full motorway in an ideal world with motorway-grade links between it and the M7 at key junctions.

Deleted User wrote: »

I did that, and the reduction in commuting costs took a lot of the pain out of the pay cut.
plus getting several hours back each week.

Looking at this option myself but the problem is there's no jobs in IT where I am, and my longer term goal of relocating further south is similarly hampered by the smaller market for what I do.

ELM327

sea12 wrote: »

Well after the lovely summer break we are back to the ****e again on this road. This morning was horrendous. The changes they made to the slip roads onto the m50 is really affecting it now. Think it's time for a pay cut and a new job down the country

I find the slip road changes on and off the m50 to/from the n7 really improved the situation.

Mantis Toboggan

Woeful traffic again this morning, Will only continue to get worse. 3 motorways on 3 lanes doesn't work.

marno21

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Woeful traffic again this morning, Will only continue to get worse. 3 motorways on 3 lanes doesn't work.

The 3 motorways aren't the problem, it's the commuter traffic from Co. Kildare is the issue. The traffic coming from Cork and Limerick is small in comparison. The M9 has a good bit of commuter traffic from Kilcullen, Athy and Carlow too adding to the traffic

ELM327

The m9 junction and the naas on ramp are normall where it gets busy. We need 3+ lanes from the m9 onwards towards An Lar.

_Kaiser_

marno21 wrote: »

The 3 motorways aren't the problem, it's the commuter traffic from Co. Kildare is the issue. The traffic coming from Cork and Limerick is small in comparison. The M9 has a good bit of commuter traffic from Kilcullen, Athy and Carlow too adding to the traffic

As long as property prices/rents continue to increase in Dublin because of the lack of supply, the exiting of small landlords, and AirBnB lets, that commuter traffic is going to continue to increase.

There's not many jobs in the areas these people are commuting from - certainly not in the IT, services, financial sectors - which is why these people are on the roads. Not by choice, but by necessity.

[Deleted User]

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Looking at this option myself but the problem is there's no jobs in IT where I am, and my longer term goal of relocating further south is similarly hampered by the smaller market for what I do.

Deleted User wrote: »

I did that, and the reduction in commuting costs took a lot of the pain out of the pay cut.
plus getting several hours back each week.

I know what you mean, it took me 10 years to get local.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

The 3 motorways aren't the problem, it's the commuter traffic from Co. Kildare is the issue. The traffic coming from Cork and Limerick is small in comparison. The M9 has a good bit of commuter traffic from Kilcullen, Athy and Carlow too adding to the traffic

The completion and addition of the M9 has been a major success (if you'd like to call it that!) in opening up that corridor hugely to commuters and business alike.
From just 2015 to 2017 AADT traffic between Kilcullen and Athy junctions has risen to 22,768 from 20,624. I'd assume even higher beyond the Kilcullen junction. All this traffic must either merge to/from the M7 which has been effectively the same for decades.
Add that to the massive volumes and growth along the M7 itself, we really end up where we are today. Little thought or bigger picture was put into the whole thing.
Perhaps upgrade the N81 and link it up the M7 and M9. A massive park and ride facility close to the M7 and rail line is another thing that may help.

SoupyNorman

road_high wrote: »

The completion and addition of the M9 has been a major success (if you'd like to call it that!) in opening up that corridor hugely to commuters and business alike.
From just 2015 to 2017 AADT traffic between Kilcullen and Athy junctions has risen to 22,768 from 20,624. I'd assume even higher beyond the Kilcullen junction. All this traffic must either merge to/from the M7 which has been effectively the same for decades.
Add that to the massive volumes and growth along the M7 itself, we really end up where we are today. Little thought or bigger picture was put into the whole thing.
Perhaps upgrade the N81 and link it up the M7 and M9. A massive park and ride facility close to the M7 and rail line is another thing that may help.

You said it right there.

Park and Ride could help this. Its obvious as the day is long that almost every car driving to the city has one person in it. Even provide parking facilities at some junctions where people can meet up to carpool.

Even consider making one lane carpool and bus lane when the upgrade is complete. Controversial I know as it’s probably more suited to a 4 lane motorway but I think both the state has a responsibility to ease the commutes of people who cant afford to or don’t want to live in Dublin by providing the required facilities (like municipal carparks, public transport etc) and the commuters could if they tried get car pools going if/when facilities are in place.

CeilingFly

ELM327 wrote: »

The m9 junction and the naas on ramp are normall where it gets busy. We need 3+ lanes from the m9 onwards towards An Lar.

That's what they are doing + repositioned Jct 10 + new Junction for Sallins + Oberstown.

CeilingFly

May have been mentioned before, but AA has a great interactive map for traffic

https://www.theaa.ie/routes/

Dark red = traffic stopped
Light red = very heavy and moving
Orange = slow
Green = flowing freely.

Very handy for checking before you set off or before you hit the main traffic blackspots.

Depending on your settings, it will zone in on where you are at that moment. Info is real time too.

Mantis Toboggan

CeilingFly wrote: »

May have been mentioned before, but AA has a great interactive map for traffic

https://www.theaa.ie/routes/

Dark red = traffic stopped
Light red = very heavy and moving
Orange = slow
Green = flowing freely.

Very handy for checking before you set off or before you hit the main traffic blackspots.

Depending on your settings, it will zone in on where you are at that moment. Info is real time too.

Isn't that just taken from Google maps though?

CeilingFly

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Isn't that just taken from Google maps though?

Thanks - I didn't know that, but now see the settings option in Google maps for the traffic layer.

sdanseo

Been doing Swords to Naas the last 6 weeks with a new job and found it grand so far. After all the horror stories about the M50 - since the schools have gone back and with the heavy traffic it's only really added 10-15 mins to journey time. Left at 8.15 for 9am start in the summer and 7.55-8.05 now and have only been late twice, both due to accidents. Time to stop for a Coffee in there too. Granted I'm not facing the N7 delays as I'm against the traffic.

I feel like the middle lane hogging isn't as bad on the N7 as it is on the M50, although it's still horrendous. Be nice to see the Guards enforce this but we may as well hope to win the lotto.

The new arrangement of the merge from N7N-M50N has been woefully done. Needs a full resurface and there really shouldn't be two lanes on the slip - one would be faster and just have it join the aux lane. As it is, people don't understand and everyone stops in the aux lane to try and merge into Lane 1 M50. Portable VMS message and better advance lane layout signs badly needed. As well as that, the merge from the left lane of the slip joins the aux lane at the exact same place as the right lane becomes the aux lane. A little difficult to visualise but it just doesn't work.

I just don't get the delays that I pass every day around Naas SB. Are these purely caused by the M7/M9 merge? Are people that bad at diverging to the M9 that they cause 10km of tailbacks?

Re Google traffic - it's spot on. As you'd expect given it's based off live data. It genuinely determines what time I leave the house in the mornings.

gilly0512

God it was horrendous this morning, over an hour from Junction 12 to the M50, and there wasn't even an incident of any sort. Sadly as we all know it's not going to get any better, yes the extra lane will help you heading home in the evening, but it will probably mean all of the M7/N7 traffic hitting the M50 a lot quicker in the morning.

GhostyMcGhost

gilly2308 wrote: »

God it was horrendous this morning, over an hour from Junction 12 to the M50, and there wasn't even an incident of any sort. Sadly as we all know it's not going to get any better, yes the extra lane will help you heading home in the evening, but it will probably mean all of the M7/N7 traffic hitting the M50 a lot quicker in the morning.

What time was that at?