squinn2912 wrote: » That's a disaster in a well meaning system but not fully thought through. Men told me about their best animals on one/two stars and I can see how that happens. It makes it a bit more tricky picking a stock bull too.
patsy_mccabe wrote: » I don't see them.
High bike wrote: » Where can they be viewed on icbf????
Bellview wrote: » There still appears to be a strong bias against stock bulls. Last bull I had has sired around 100 calves..and still on the go but his sire in ai dropped 6 for replacement and the stock bull dropped 20..ironically ironically have his daughters and they are milking away nicely. Scheme is still a joke but just will draw the cash and if I fail to meet criteria in year 6 they can come chasing all they want for cash return
GiantPencil wrote: » Bellview wrote: » There still appears to be a strong bias against stock bulls. Last bull I had has sired around 100 calves..and still on the go but his sire in ai dropped 6 for replacement and the stock bull dropped 20..ironically ironically have his daughters and they are milking away nicely. Scheme is still a joke but just will draw the cash and if I fail to meet criteria in year 6 they can come chasing all they want for cash return I've seen the opposite with a bull I sold, his sire is about 150 for replacement and the stock bull is over 200 now with 100+ calves on the ground. Depends on what info is being logged to the animal I suppose. I think the days of huge movements in figures are slowly going away with each new release. Come 5 years time the data should be accurately for the most reflecting the animal I think
Bellview wrote: » There still appears to be a strong bias against stock bulls. Last bull I had has sired around 100 calves..and still on the go but his sire in ai dropped 6 for replacement and the stock bull dropped 20..ironically have his daughters and they are milking away nicely. Scheme is still a joke but just will draw the cash and if I fail to meet criteria in year 6 they can come chasing all they want for cash return
wiggy123 wrote: » Its all about what farmers input in for a Stock bull.. re calves been born from it--if they lie(bend the truth)--re all calves, born easily-vigorous-quiet, etc.. the daughters calf correctly 100%... that will give the stock a good star rating So its ICBF relying on folk been honest when inputting information in to them.
blue5000 wrote: I can see where you are getting caught though, dairy farmers are the pedigree angus breeders' bread and butter, the calves are barely recorded properly. I think the aa bulls with more 'power' might be going to suckler herds and getting better stats there. But the market for these is limited, I've only bought 2 angus bulls in 10 years, wheras a dairy farmer might buy a 'plain' angus bull every year and let them off after 1 season.
wiggy123 wrote: to me, the system is a good idea-its the policing of it + the rules, computer programmes which they use, etc...
Bellview wrote: » Agreed ironically the sons of the same stock bull have bred up on 1000 calves now and these are the ones that are reporting...I have 2 sons of his registering over 50 calves a year. I see the dairy scores getting air play due to unreliability Good news for me is that my aim is more traditional angus rather than breeding for pedigree guys. ..although I have sold a few. The piece I never understand though is the ai in bloodline moves one way and the stock bull is not moving parallel
The man in red and black wrote: You can speed up the increase in reliability for stock bulls by using AI on some of the cows along with him bulling the rest. Weigh the calves at birth and at weaning and it will give great comparison of how his offspring do in a similar situation compared with highly reliable AI bulls. Also increases reliability alot if bulls are used across several herds. Obviously this is easier for AI bulls. The more (accurate) data the better and the quicker the reliability percentages will increase and so your bulls ratings will actually be more accurate to what you are seeing on farm.
patsy_mccabe wrote: You know, I was thinking about this. If most breeders will be trying to get high stars on their bulls, that range in € values between say, the top 20% and the bottom 20% will get narrower and narrower. This will mean even greater jumps across the stars going forward. Once the poor rated bulls are no longer used, that range gets smaller and smaller between the 'good' and 'bad' bulls. It's a bit like cross-breeding, the best gain will be in the first few years and dwindle away after that.
Bellview wrote: » Once the stars are accurate...I see there is a lot of noise coming from dairy side..where dairy has a more tangible measure than beef
Hard Knocks wrote: » Don't know .... I'd noticed on the excel, bulls who's progeny are making €3+/kg are low rated while bulls whose progeny preform less have higher terminal value. My fear is bulls & straws are being purchased based on stars which could mean the suckler progeny will not be of suitable for shipping
