Muckit wrote: » Sellling through the ring to these factories is the only way .
amacca wrote: » Where would the best rings to do that be?
Muckit wrote: » Any Mart that has a good manager and has northern agents at ringside for its users. It should be YOUR local Mart. And if not why aren't you in talking to your Mart manager to see what they can do for you? Did u ever see Mart reports for Balla Mart in Mayo on agriland? Marts are co operatives. They were set up with the principles and values of farmers in mind. The main one was to get a fair price for their produce. If you were selling your house or farm would you want a number of people to see it and try buy it or would you pick one and ring them up and ask them when can they come take it off your hands? I've have had my fill of factories. I got done badly this year on weight with an animal sent in a bunch. I had pics taken at trough back and front with tag numbers. It's one for lads to be aware of. But how could it be proven? Grade is one thing, but weight is what pays. At the Mart, weight is displayed for all to see. If you have animals factory fit you should get market value. If things are t obviously right, you as a farmer have opton not to sell. Fair enough supplyvto factory but be contented withe price you get. But nobody should be giving out about factories and still continuing to supply directly to them.
Bass Reeves wrote: » Selling through the ring is grand when numbers are tight. If factories can procure enough without going to the ring you are wasting your time. Just like quoting lower carcass weights. 100K extra cattle are about 7% of through put to the factories. If total carcass weight is down 10 kgs/carcass it is equivlent to 2.5% less meat. But the autumn is mainly always made up of grazing cattle carcass weight will not vary by much year to year. I wish we had a method to beat the system, but like gambling the house always wins. The processors can see from the CMS cattle numbers, ages, what farms they are on, they can see stores numbers and where they are in the system. What has killed the Christmas trade for the last few years is farmers with low numbers waiting for the 6 month window for the ANC payment thsi year will be no different IMO. We can huff and puff all we like but it si unlikly that farmers will gain control of prices again before next April. The circus has left town.
White Clover wrote: » I'd reckon 25 to 30 kg less meat on a dairy bred animal. That wouldn't be long altering the tonnage of meat. Anyone know the breakdown of the kill, dairy bred v sucker bred?
Bass Reeves wrote: » I wish we had a method to beat the system, but like gambling the house always wins. The processors can see from the CMS cattle numbers, ages, what farms they are on, they can see stores numbers and where they are in the system.
White Clover wrote: » Add to that, a large proportion of fat cattle in the UK are sold through the ring. Why isn't it happening here?
Bass Reeves wrote: » It is really down to numbers. We export 90% of our produce. Over 70% of it is bought by three companies Kepak, ABP and Dawn. lately we saw Dunbia and Dawn virtually combined into one group. You have a fist full of independents that in reality are trading a lot of there produce with the big 3. It is different in the UK as they consume more beef than they produce. Because of that they have lots of small abattoirs that kill for independent butchers. This creates a competitive market place. It reduces the influences of the larger processors. It also allows producers groups to brand market to butchers and for butchers and smaller abattoirs ( in the UK terms) to compete for school, hospital and other large catering contracts meat supply. you have to understand the difference dynamics between the UK and Irish Markets.
White Clover wrote: » That's all fine bass, but it still doesn't explain the price pull and price difference between darraghhaven's man in N.I. and the factories here. After all, the factories here are selling into a much more competitive market that has returned a much higher price to the farmer over there. Also, this extra 4k cattle killed last week....most likely out of factory feedlots, are there to meet an increase in demand with schools opening this week. As sterling is dropping in value, factories are maintaining their margins while (as wilfarman says) plundering rural economies. Their actions over the past 4 weeks are indefensible.
kowtow wrote: » Do they actually have that kind of access to the CMS? I'd be surprised, but if they do it is an outrage and one which should be ended immediately. It's perfectly possible to give them the limited access required for dealing with a single animal on a case by case basis without giving them an overview of the privileged commercial information of their suppliers as a whole. There is no trace-ability case whatsoever for factories to have that data in aggregate. It is the commercial equivalent of farmers being able to access the entire outgoing order book of the factories together with forward demand. And while we are at it, tracing ought to be a two way thing, farmers should also be able to see what became of their animals and in what markets they ended up.
kk.man wrote: » I'd love to know in what format our qa cattle which the bonus that wasn't paid to farmers end up as?
blue5000 wrote: » If they're produced on a QA farm then they are assured. I reckon 90% of farmers supplying cattle to factories are QA.
Bass Reeves wrote: » I am not trying to explain it. Rather I am explaining why those that think as farmers we might gain control of the kill in the next 3-4 weeks and even after that are not looking at the facts. Most factory feedlots are empty since May/June, it would not pay them to feed cattle expensive ration and silage over the summer when they will have a glut anyway. Rather they will now fill these feedlots for the pre/post Christmas kill and used them to control any prices around then. Reading the FI today they mentioned that some farmers are only starting there first draw of cattle to the factory's this week :eek:. This is the reality of the autumn kill. Factory's are maintaining more than there margins and yes they are plundering rural economies. While schools are reopening holiday resorts are staring to empty it is the same number of people eating the same amount of meat but through a different outlet. As I argued with Rangler the allowing of factory's to own and control feedlots is anti competitive but the different farm organisations will not lobby for this to be illegal like in the United States. Just like they will not push for producer groups. Yes we have producer groups like HE and AA scheme but neither of these negotiate a national base for these cattle so processors are allowed to plunder the scheme by dropping the base to lads with lots of these cattle and these by eating into the bonus.
Cavanjack wrote: » QA is just another hoop we have to jump through for no return. No bonus on bulls, cows or over 30 month stock even though the same standards are met for their raising and finishing. Same as the aa and hf bonus, it's not given to the farmers if the animal falls out of spec but the factories still sell the meat along with the "in spec" meat.
Muckit wrote: » It's thrown in a skip out the back marked 'unfit for human consumption.'
rangler1 wrote: » Bass Reeves wrote: » I am not trying to explain it. Rather I am explaining why those that think as farmers we might gain control of the kill in the next 3-4 weeks and even after that are not looking at the facts. Most factory feedlots are empty since May/June, it would not pay them to feed cattle expensive ration and silage over the summer when they will have a glut anyway. Rather they will now fill these feedlots for the pre/post Christmas kill and used them to control any prices around then. Reading the FI today they mentioned that some farmers are only starting there first draw of cattle to the factory's this week :eek:. This is the reality of the autumn kill. Factory's are maintaining more than there margins and yes they are plundering rural economies. While schools are reopening holiday resorts are staring to empty it is the same number of people eating the same amount of meat but through a different outlet. As I argued with Rangler the allowing of factory's to own and control feedlots is anti competitive but the different farm organisations will not lobby for this to be illegal like in the United States. Just like they will not push for producer groups. Yes we have producer groups like HE and AA scheme but neither of these negotiate a national base for these cattle so processors are allowed to plunder the scheme by dropping the base to lads with lots of these cattle and these by eating into the bonus. Still don't agree with you, by your reasoning dairy farmers shouldn't be allowed grow grain because they should be made buy it from tillage farmers. Everyone has to do what's necessary to reduce costs and ensure supply. Same as a farmer changing to suckling instead of buying stores....... will he have to be stopped too . Our lamb group was started by a group of farmers coming together, That's the way a producer group is formed, it's a bit naive to expect someone to take on the whole country and market millions of cattle. farmers themselves will have to get the finger out themselves....there's no law against starting producer groups and I'm sure if a group comes together, Farm centre will provide information and experience
coolshannagh28 wrote: » This is a scandal ,QA is a means of paying under the odds for premium beef which is sold on as value added ,QA should be boycotted.
rangler1 wrote: » Like the weight limit on the lambs, they have to penalise farmers for overweight/age or whatever.......is there any other way they'll stop farmers sending in the type of cattle that they don't want.
Bass Reeves wrote: » Processors do not have to negotiate with producer groups. Legislation was to be introduced to force this to happen. There is no push by farm organisation to push this legislation along it is about two years since the European Commission allowed it. No point in trying to form producer groups until that legislation is introduced. You only have to look at AA and HE schemes no national prices agreed it is up to local negotiations. This means with the higher rates of bonus where cattle have to be booked in months in advance the processor do not have to commit to a base price and you have to negotiate locally. The lamb market is totally different to the beef market and it is like comparing apple's and oranges.
valtra2 wrote: » What would a 935kg cow make in factory. 6 year old and fat
cute geoge wrote: » What breed is she ??? If she is tight cow without a big belly suckler bred she could kill out 48/49% multiply that by price quoted lets say €3.30 =€1480 deduct haulage +factory levies - 40 €1440 best case sceaniro
rangler1 wrote: » I think you're in Dreamland if you think legislation will make processors enter into meaningful negotiations with producer groups, Groups have to make the product attractive to processors.....guess what that means, yes offering big numbers but also with the majority inspec.. If a group isn't able to offer inspec stock, processors will let them go whistle, legislation or not. Or worse take at a price if they can dump it somewhere Lamb or beef, Markets are all the same, legislation won't sell a product that's not wanted.
Danzy wrote: » What are R-4= heifers making roughly in the factory.
