charolais0153 wrote: » Forgot that anybody that has sheep was automatically set up for them :rolleyes:
Cavanjack wrote: Nobody has mentioned the lunatics in the marts this spring buying "grass" cattle. Does he take any of the blame for the lack of margin in cattle?
teddy 1223 wrote: » I sold cattle in the mart in april/may, the lads buying them will make nothing out of them. It's the best time to sell cattle
tanko wrote: May was a good time to sell cattle this year alrite but that isn't guaranteed to happen every year either. The lads buying them mightn't make much out of them but when you add up all your costs you mightn't have much profit either.
patsy_mccabe wrote: The guys buying April/May do not have the cost of wintering them. A lot of hidden costs their - sheds, labour, machinery wear etc. They still get to claim their single payment too.
Fireside Solicitor wrote: » Sorry my post didn't finish, the reason he headed building is he was fed up with trying to make a living out of cattle and decided to go give it a try. Rented the land to a sheep man and after six months he said he is much better off but finds it hard to sit lookin out at the place on a summers evening and finding all the things wrong yer man is doing. So I don't know what the answer is. At my age there is no point changing so we will have a full shed again this winter
Fireside Solicitor wrote: » That's what I said to him about the shed. No point in him keeping that now. He has around 70 acres and not much of a basic payment but enough. He said he was fed up with working for half nothing all the time. In fairness to him he would have been alright and cute enough. I'd say the missus was a big driver in it all but he's not sayin. I was at him to stay at it part time but he didn't want to. A shame young man under forty and giving it up.
Bass Reeves wrote: » For the smaller finisher there is nothing to be made out of finishing cattle out of a shed. Costs are too high and processors will not give a forward contract so that you can calculate profit/loss. No matter what system you use winter finishing costs will vary from 2.2/day(5-6kgs of ration and silage) to 3.5/day (10+kgs of ration and straw). So finishing any animal will cost minimum 220 up to 350 euro. That is feeding costs only add vet, dosing, machinery etc and you are at nothing winter finishing and it add in often to a nitrated issue as well. Having said that lads that is gone back to buildings may not have been a good enough farmer anyway. He may have bough and handled the wrong stock. It says something about him that he would not rent the shed in case someone made sh!te of it. If it is not dirty it is not making money.
Cavanjack wrote: » Bass Reeves wrote: » For the smaller finisher there is nothing to be made out of finishing cattle out of a shed. Costs are too high and processors will not give a forward contract so that you can calculate profit/loss. No matter what system you use winter finishing costs will vary from 2.2/day(5-6kgs of ration and silage) to 3.5/day (10+kgs of ration and straw). So finishing any animal will cost minimum 220 up to 350 euro. That is feeding costs only add vet, dosing, machinery etc and you are at nothing winter finishing and it add in often to a nitrated issue as well. Having said that lads that is gone back to buildings may not have been a good enough farmer anyway. He may have bough and handled the wrong stock. It says something about him that he would not rent the shed in case someone made sh!te of it. If it is not dirty it is not making money. I've bullocks that'll be coming into the shed round 1st Nov at 600kg. I figure feed them 5kg for 150 days will cost €180 plus silage. I'd be feeding silage anyway and they'll eat less of it when they are getting meal. Winters are fairly long round here and can't see the point of storing for 5 months when another €200 would finish them. Also Find it easier to feed cattle meal indoors. It's a dangerous and time consuming job doing it outside from this time of the year on. Especially for a working man. Think I'd be better off with yearlings in their place next summer.
gerryirl wrote: » good stuff Base you have your costs covered in great detail. Can you finish an animal in 2 months on grass and meal or you feeding in the shed before letting out as well
The part time boy wrote: » Re: the farmer who became a builder and does not want to rent his sheds . I have cublies for 150 animals and only winter 20 / 30 cattle . I have very little interest in rent them out . I never say never but it have to be the right person
Bass Reeves wrote: » My winter period is about 120 days. I deal with dairy bred stores. What I have found over the years is that if I feed my better stores, theses are usually ones I bought as weanlings or yearlings that I really eat into there profit margin. As well I have to carry replacement for the following years. This tied up ground d for silage and pushes the finishing of stores out later in the year. These heavier stores are the ones that can be slaughtered early in the year in June and July when the price is usually as strong or better than the winter price. The steers killed during the winter either have to be replaced with expensive yearlings or poorer 2year olds or you have to carry replacements over the winter. A steer killed in June will kill at least 25 kgs heavier than one fed in a shed with silage and 5 kgs of ration in my situation. Along with a stronger June price this can often leave the animal grossing 150-200 euro more. On silage alone I can carry a 530 kg store over the winter for sub 1 euro/day. This means that this bullock will be wintered for about 110 euro if he was finished he cost at least another 150 euro to finish. From early March to mid June he will cost 50 cent/ day for grass about 50 euro and 33 euro for ration for 8 weeks and a euro to dose in late April. Total cost to finish on grass is 90 euro. However the gross for this bullock goes from 320kgs @ 3.95/kg =1264euro. to 345 kgs@4.1/ kg 1415 euro. Now costs have dropped by 60 euro and gross has increased by 150 euro. But you need to be getting these bullocks to grass in early March and going to slaughter in mid June. In my case the Friesian bullock killed in the shed was leaving nothing over selling as an autumn store. As well the lighter Friesian bullock that you finished out of the shed would often fail to grade or make QA.
Bass Reeves wrote: » I do not feed any ration in the shed to stores they get silage only. My silage is goodish but generally I try to get it high in dry matter as I find store do better on it and it is cheaper to make.
Dunedin wrote: » Interested in this. The guidance and general advice would always be to give a kilo or so to stores. I have being doing this for the past few years and without any exact science on it i.e.weighing cattle, I feel they do very well from it. It would be weanlings and year and a halves that would be finished following Autumn off the grass. interested in other peoples thoughts/experience.
Muckit wrote: » If an animal is getting supplementary feeding there's no question but that they will have higher DWGs during that period. But it all costs money and 40c x by no of days fed x no of animals doesn't be long making it all add up. It would really need to be leaving significant results long-term. I have attached a few pages from teagasc beef production publication that lads may be interested in. A few costings... Let's say the ration used cost €200/tonne (which would be cheap) Feeding 2.3kg @ 20c/kg =46c/day Over 148day winter = ~€68 So 22kg of extra weight gain over 12mths compared to those fed no meal cost €68 or €3/kg LW. Is this cost efficient? Now it's worth mentioning that the silage in the example @ 72DMD would be better quality than what many lads might have in their yard.
Robson99 wrote: » Dont believe everything Teagasc comes out with. 40 cent by 120 days is 48 euro. I think you will see the difference
Danzy wrote: » Sorry Bass, regarding those Stores when would you be looking at killing them. I have a number of Friesian Bullocks, born Feb 16 and will kill next year. the silage is reasonably good and I was thinking about giving them ration, will I bepissing against the wind doing so, I think it can only help but would like to hear your thoughts. Just in case you are talking about heavy stores.
Fireside Solicitor wrote: » Bass do u feed minerals to stores and finishing cattle as well? Have fed it to weanlings but just keep the stores on silage. Agree with u on the high protein ration - expensive where we are but does a great job. Unfortunately I think u can cut the figures down to the last cent but think of the costs your not including - machinery, sheds, insurance, vet, fencing, profit/your time. Load all these in and see how it looks. On tagasc I think they can be great at all the science and then no good for how u actually make a living out of it - well that's my view from the advisor around here
