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Back to school costs

Ubbquittious

When I was a youngfella (back in the 90's) the most of the back to school spending was on stationary and books with torn covers. Perhaps a new lunch box but if I gathered more than £10 of "inky biros", pencils and pencil cases I'd be made put some back

I went to school in Holland for a short while and you didn't even have to buy books there. They were all supplied by the school.

But what happened since the 90's? A brand new Core i7 laptop and several 100 worth of clothing seems to be the run of the mill now. What happens these days if you attempt to send a youngster to school with a fistfull of inky biros and some books with torn covers?

Are the €1,000+ cost per child of sending them back to school genuine or is everyone just trying to outdo each other?

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Ger Roe

Heisenbug wrote: »

That's interesting. I thought nearly all schools here would be using chromebooks? 'only' 150 - 200e. And can be managed on the school network.

Chromebook are miles ahead (at least what I read last week) in the U.S. for these reasons.

iPads seem excessive for education.

The problem is that there is no centrally imposed departmental standard. Each school makes up its own E learning policy and decides how it is implemented. Some schools allow use of existing equipment, some offer a limited choice of equipment from an appointed supplier and some offer no choice except take it or leave it. Systems are being cobbled together as needed.

In my particular case the school concerned has insisted on what I firmly believe to be a very poor value choice of offering no choice but to deal with a monopolistic provider.

The bigger question is what advantage does Elearning currently provide?. The school could not provide me with any reports concerning usage in Irish schools - parents are being used to finance technology experiments carried out on a school by school basis.

The Dept of Ed needs to get a grip and introduce a national system - same equipment and services for all, using the advantages of scale to keep costs down. Schools are making it up as they go along, while being advised by their self appointed 'technology partners'. I actually attended the training session provided for the young people using Ipads and was astounded to see that the students were told to lie about their age so that they could open an account to avail of the free cloudspace being used for backup. Should we not be educating our young people about web safety, privacy and security instead of teaching them how to circumvent the system at their first formal introduction?

Geuze

andekwarhola wrote: »

To be fair, years of underspending in education

Underspending?

A typical teachers pension is 700 pw.

We have 3,200 primary schools, so we have to pay 3,200 principals and their pensions.

A parish centred on a village in Co. Sligo has 5 primary schools.

heroics

I have no problem with secondary school children using tablets etc to reduce the amount of books need to carry for interactive lessons etc. My biggest problem is that I know our local secondary school insists that it has to be an apple Ipad. Now you can't even use an existing device you have to buy one fro wiggle

http://www.colaisteca.ie/index.php/parents/ipad-information/information-for-parents-of-new-entrants-2017-2018/

scamalert

ive seen lidl/aldi had sale few weeks back looking at brochure you'd dress up kid and get all supplies for mere 30-40 quid if your going all out, now if parents are illiterate broke class who wanna keep up with the Joneses then stupidity will raise the cost ten fold.

^ the tablet example is great marketing scheme, since id bet if you were even to ask teachers or whoever pushes that scheme whats the difference between apple and android they wouldn't have a freaking clue.Sadly been around education system and people pushing such stuff are most illiterate people youd meet..

Dravokivich

If they need my kid to have an iPad, I'll rent one of'em. I'm not purchasing one, that they restrict and/or monitor.

meeeeh

Radio_Fan_738 wrote: »

Homeschooling is the way to go, public schools exist to brainwash children into becoming compliant sheep.

They also offer them possibility to meet their peers and make friendships for life. Besides who says homeschooled kids are not brainwashed only by their parents in that instance.

Personally if I wanted to teach I would become a teacher. I don't. It doesn't mean I have no interest my kids education, it means I am happy for someone else to do the donkey work.

Steve F

Dravokivich wrote: »

If they need my kid to have an iPad, I'll rent one of'em. I'm not purchasing one, that they restrict and/or monitor.

Still can't understand WHY it has to be iPad/Tablet
Kindles are the same/better than paper books and can be picked up for 50-60 euros??

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Ger Roe

Steve F wrote: »

Still can't understand WHY it has to be iPad/Tablet
Kindles are the same/better than paper books and can be picked up for 50-60 euros??

Because the school and their self appointed supplier/trainer/technical adviser company says so.... simple.

The Dept has no central implementation policy or influence over how schools decide to do things.

Your choice as a parent is to comply, or place your children elsewhere. It was much the same approach with the uniform costs argument, take it or leave it. Not enough parents actually try to do anything about it to make a change. The local board of management holds all the power.

In my case I have heard parents talk about how they are unhappy, but very few go to the bother of asking for a meeting with the principle, or contacting the department. That is why the schools are so sure that they can carry on regardless.

No one wants to single out their kid by not coughing up for the Ipad or having them identified as potential trouble because their parents dared to argue.

Dravokivich

Ger Roe wrote: »

The Dept has no central implementation policy or influence over how schools decide to do things.

They should do though. Schools should be following their guide lines. We shouldn't accept something the schools are doing outside of that. if the Dept haven't done anything to support eLearning, except for basic usage of computers, schools, should not be implementing such solutions.

freshpopcorn

My parents were never overly well off but back to school costs were never an issue. You buy a uniform or two a pair of shoes. Which will last year for the year.
I got the more expensive one because we always found the cheaper one's went shabby in no time.
Books in primary were bought new or second hand. Secondary books were rented. Copies/Biro's pencils.
We had a voluntary contribution in Secondary school. I generally had a nice atmosphere in school. It was always clean and warm. The contribution was meant to go towards the running of the school and I think it did. Most people paid it. Some people paid a section or it or in installments. I know a good few teachers now and the people who complain about paying anything generally have good cars/holidays etc but everything in school should be free.
I was in a shop lately and I heard a woman giving out about the cost recently of going back to school. I know if I was the child I would have felt really guilty because I was being such a bother.

JupiterKid

It's threads like these that make me grateful that I don't have any children. The costs associated with children are enormous.

retro:electro

Radio_Fan_738 wrote: »

Homeschooling is the way to go, public schools exist to brainwash children into becoming compliant sheep.

Cockapoo. Sure you could be teaching your kid any old sh!te at home. You're also depriving them of the opportunity to flourish socially and engage with children their age. It's not just formal education that helps children intellectually develop, there are so many other factors that a regulated system like school can include which benefits a growing child far more than sitting at home can.

beauf

Shinbin223 wrote: »

...
I definitely think this is more of a news story that's trotted out every year at the same time, and is grossly exaggerated by the media.

I'm somewhere in the middle. Certainly costs a lot more than you are suggesting, but not as much (usually) as the press says either. But I would not be surprised if it reached 1000 in some places.

I'm sure a lot comes down the the schools policies, how they deal with secondhand books, Tablets, uniforms, changes in books from year to year. if you have kids who can pass down uniforms. If teachers don't reuse books.

beauf

Steve F wrote: »

Still can't understand WHY it has to be iPad/Tablet
Kindles are the same/better than paper books and can be picked up for 50-60 euros??

The software can be iPad only.

Also they are used more as multimedia devices not simply eReaders.
They have interactive elements and can display projects on protectors and similar.

You actually buy into a books, iPad, insurance, software package. At least that was what was in one school I looked at.

buried

This is no good. If this money racket is allowed to continue it's going to have a serious detrimental effect on education as a whole. If parents start to resent the spiraling cost of education, it's going to make them resent the whole education process and put even more pressure on their kids to do well. If kids right from the start see their own parents resent and become stressed with this yearly back to school money racket, what kind of negative message is that going to be sending to the kids? Kids aren't stupid, they're smart enough to pick up what's going on in their lives without going to school. This is seriously bad stuff for the future. I know people who tell me it's costing them over 2 grand to send their kids to go back, they tell me this $hit right in front of their kids, and the poor kids stand there looking down at the ground as if this was somehow their fault for even existing! It's f**ked up and it's all down to nothing but consume consume consume and the greedy twats in the racket behind it.

beauf

In one school I was at a meeting in the cost of the iPad was over 1000 for the oldest model you could buy with the package .

When asked about the affordability the credit union was the solution offered. I was against it from a results stand point. But I was staggered by the costs that were mentioned without blinking an eye.

imme

mahamageehad wrote: »

To be fair, a family friend has a kid starting secondary in a few weeks in Kilkenny.
All kids were told that they had to cough up €600 for a tablet that would be used as their books for the year. Now, to be fair, I think that will last the entire length of school but it's still a big first expense.

The uniform came in at just over €300 - parents were informed by letter that the uniforms had to be "official" ones purchased in 1 or 2 specified local shops. That was for the skirt, jumper, 2 blouses and gym gear. There was a "optional" school jacket for another €70 that they didn't take.

That's all before things like voluntary contributions, lunch boxes, stationary, school bag etc. Now, I know that the next kid will be less expensive when they get to that school in 2 years as there'll be hand-me-downs, but it's still a lot higher than I would have expected.

"To be fair"
Sorry, but who are you being fair to????

€600 for a kids tablet is ott

€300 for a uniform is just plain wrong

ash23

I've a kid starting third year.

Ime 1st year I'd to pay 100 book rental plus uniform (skirt 45, jumper 50, two shirts 18 each - all crested or strange colours so can't be bought in standard shops), shoes (90), pe top (crested 30) and runners(45), school bag (35), books not on book rental plus copies, calculator, math set, workbooks (~100), school fee (for arts and crafts, photocopies, test fees, insurance -50), voluntary contribution 50, locker and diary 15.
Total for 1st year over 600

Second year - we needed new jumper, new shirts, new jacket, new shoes, new runners as she'd outgrown those. Total of about 250.
She picked HL on some subjects and those books were not available on book rental. Between those and workbooks and refill pads, I probably spent about 200.
Same school fees as above so another 115, no book rental.

Total second year cost under 600

This year she needs shoes and runners (~100 total). Exam papers and novels will be about 50. School fees again 115. 100 for mocks. Exam fees payable in March - no fee given yet.

Total third year 365. Plus whatever the state exam fees will be.

Buying the decent shoes and uniform means it should last longer but they do grow in 1st to 3rd year so certain things have to be replaced.

Brand new uniform next year as they change the uniform after JC. Book rental will be due too.
It's costly enough.

murt101

I've one in primary and one going into secondary...total spend so far is €783. I still have to get shoes for youngest but that can wait another month.
€165 of that is for the primary school child who has book rental.
The remaining €618 was to get child kitted out for secondary, using every available discount I could find and includes 3 second hand books which we got for free from a friend. Haven't been asked for any contributions to secondary school (yet ).
Thankfully they didn't need new schoolbags or runners.
It's all adding up quickly and I can now see how it could reach the €1000 mark for secondary school.

Akrasia

mahamageehad wrote: »

To be fair, a family friend has a kid starting secondary in a few weeks in Kilkenny.
All kids were told that they had to cough up €600 for a tablet that would be used as their books for the year. Now, to be fair, I think that will last the entire length of school but it's still a big first expense.

There's no way that tablet will last 5 or 6 years without getting lost/stolen/broken or the battery degrading to the point where it isn't functional anymore.

Corkgirl18

I wouldn't really use a book when I'm teaching - I'd rely more on my own notes and PowerPoints and use the book as a reference point.

I've been told in the past (in different schools) that we need to put the subject book on the booklist anyway as parents would complain that their child couldn't learn anything if they didn't have a textbook. You can't win apparently.

freshpopcorn

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

I wouldn't really use a book when I'm teaching - I'd rely more on my own notes and PowerPoints and use the book as a reference point.

I've been told in the past (in different schools) that we need to put the subject book on the booklist anyway as parents would complain that their child couldn't learn anything if they didn't have a textbook. You can't win apparently.

I know a teacher and she tried to cut down on non essential books. Parents still kicked up saying that they should be more books on the book list. Teachers can't win!

freshpopcorn

Somebody might be able to clear this up for me.
Is it true that if a school has an Ipad and the parent pay €600 for it that every year they have to pay about €100 to download the books/etc?

murt101

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

I've been told in the past (in different schools) that we need to put the subject book on the booklist anyway as parents would complain that their child couldn't learn anything if they didn't have a textbook. You can't win apparently.

In these instances I really wish the school management would grow a pair. It's often a few loud parents who start moaning about everything...if the school was really bothered maybe they should poll all the parents rather than listening to the loudest. I'd prefer my kids not to rely heavily on a single book... I'd rather their minds were opened to different points of view etc...

diomed

Buying the new back-to-school SUV ups the cost a bit.
And the designer pyjamas.

flower tattoo

mahamageehad wrote: »

To be fair, a family friend has a kid starting secondary in a few weeks in Kilkenny.
All kids were told that they had to cough up €600 for a tablet that would be used as their books for the year. Now, to be fair, I think that will last the entire length of school but it's still a big first expense.

The uniform came in at just over €300 - parents were informed by letter that the uniforms had to be "official" ones purchased in 1 or 2 specified local shops. That was for the skirt, jumper, 2 blouses and gym gear. There was a "optional" school jacket for another €70 that they didn't take.

That's all before things like voluntary contributions, lunch boxes, stationary, school bag etc. Now, I know that the next kid will be less expensive when they get to that school in 2 years as there'll be hand-me-downs, but it's still a lot higher than I would have expected.

Just to clarify as my daughter is in this school
The tablet only lasts 3,years
Leaving cert is back to books
And the tablet won't be able be passed to the second child as the first will still be using it
You'd be very lucky to pass any clothes down either as they fall apart!

Meeoow

My biggest expense every year are books. First year in secondary was shocking. They do loads of subjects before they whittle down for LC.
But every year I tried my best to buy used books and sell hers.
Very few people want to buy used books, there is a snobbery about them.
I have a few books here that I put up for sale on local Facebook pages. Nobody contacted me.
I'll probably give them into the school to use as spares.
A girl I know used to complain every year about costs even though she never worked and always got the back to school grant. Her kids school had book rental and they got free lunches, and the allowance more than covered her costs.
I was lucky if I got a new pack of shirts every year nevermind a full uniform.

flower tattoo

I was given 2 LC maths workbooks by a friend whose daughter hadn't used them, the teacher photocopied all the pages and handed them out
That would actually make me more cross than buying the books - buying them nd then not using them!!

Prickly Pete

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

We'd be much better off having teachers being paid a pittance. Thats the way to motivate them and get intelligent individuals wanting to be teachers.